The draft is slavery

a reply to: TerryDon79
I'm not kidding. Dictionaries get definitions wrong all the time. A definition isn't an arbitrary agreement between men, is must encompass everything that makes a thing a thing and either explicitly or implicitly, exclude what a thing is not. A thing"s definition is its essence. Definitions are objective.

Definitions are universals put into words. To understand what a "universal" is, research Plato and Aristotle.

a reply to: TerryDon79

a reply to: EternalSolace
Your point about consent being that one remains a citizen is interesting though, I'd like to explore that. Can anyone renounce their citizenship and can the destitute?

The point I'd like to explore refutes premise two and it may have merit.

originally posted by: Thetan
a reply to: TerryDon79
But none of those points contradicts my argument, good sir.

EVERY single point contradicts your argument.

the state deciding your fate entirely without your consent is slavery. there's no way around it. doesn't matter if they pay you, or they give you lollipops, you will die, and that's all that would matter.

a reply to: Thetan

Do you understand that a "draft" is in essence a lottery? Do you also understand that a requirement across the board does not a "draft" make?

Here.... read 👇
www.sss.gov...

Agency Missions
“…To furnish manpower to the Defense Department during a national emergency, to manage alternative service for men classified as conscientious objectors, and to register, with only a few exceptions, all male U.S. citizens and male immigrants residing in the United States who are ages 18 through 25...”

Here's some info... i'm trying to follow this thread.
Freedom isn't free. Everyone knows this. Sacrifices are made, yes.
For those whom didn't get this, ran to Canada and beyond. Most missed out on free health care, loans... right to vote. The rest became congressmen or a politician of a sort..( the last part is not true ) 😉

I was told in high school before the age of 18..
If I don't register. I may not qualify for certain loans. And college was fast approaching. Lots of needed loans over the years.
I could be fined or face jail time. ( During the civil war, deserters were captured and in some cases killed )... no way that happens today.
As it worked out. Some "Actual Slave's" were given freedom. And in some cases, land.

Back to the now.
Unless a full blown worldwide war is endless.... and all resources are exhausted. And a few nukes have Been used. And you love your family.
Anyone left will be volunteering no questions ask. Slavery would be an extinct term. Your service would be elevated to Hero.

It's not possible giving the amount of people anymore. And those going into the services. Better chance of being turned away, unless the above conditions exist.☺

originally posted by: Thetan
a reply to: eluryh22
I am against taxation, but that's off topic.

I explained (briefly) how taxation in the modern age in the West is a greater form of "slavery" than your imaginary/hypothetical scenario.

You don't believe in taxation? Is that an absolute definitive statement?
Do you believe that we should have roads to drive upon?
Do you believe we should have ambulances?
Do you believe we should have schools?

P.S. - Do you see what happens when an oversimplified statement is used to try to make a (less than thought out) point?

a reply to: Bigburgh

thats not true, one can choose to die not fighting. its when someone is forced to fight that the term slave may apply, as it dissolves your consent and makes you property.

to the above post, you're right taxation is not slavery, it is a social contract with the state, local and federal. if you dont want to be taxed you can always leave. but Franklin was it? that said two things are sure in life, death and taxes.

a reply to: vjr1113

Hmmmmmmmmffffffff ok... yes I see that angle. But is the op referring to today's world. Or Vietnam and prior?

Vjr113..... the rest of my post is for everyone and not directed at you. Thanks

Edit: I'm not a proponent of war either. But it's a fact of life. "People Suck and Crap Happens" . Most will get turned away from even a draft...... hearing, heart condition, heavy drug use, mental status, can't do to required physical agility test etc etc..
Yes I will cave into the slavery remark during a certain time period and a young male kicking and screaming no!
But times have changed. You can get a doctor's note anymore.



Like TerryDon79 pointed out. Those that are drafted were "Paid".

Soldiers are trained
Sheltered as best as possible
Given food
Given clothes
Every resource available to them. ( this includes educational needs )

Not the best. But Healthcare for life. And perhaps a pension.

Beyond that. ATS has service members. Ask them☺ they know better. ATS also has lawyers around. Perhaps they could tackle the word SLAVERY, and decipher the differences between SLAVERY & The Draft.😉

slavery
/ˈsleɪvərɪ/
noun
1.
the state or condition of being a slave; a civil relationship whereby one person has absolute power over another and controls his life, liberty, and fortune
2.
the subjection of a person to another person, esp in being forced into work
3.
the condition of being subject to some influence or habit
4.
work done in harsh conditions for low pay

Yes it sounds just like the military. But no. Even the services have laws on how it's servicemen are treated.

a reply to: Thetan

The whole premise. Slavery does not equate to the draft. Slavery is illegal and the draft is not. One could be born into slavery. Its a bit of an insult to compare the two. The military spends millions every year on funding education, I know many who have earned Masters Degrees. Slaves were not allowed a elementary education much less university educations.

Slaves were not able to vote or entitled to representation. The military bends over backwards to provide Soldiers the opportunity to vote in every election, both local, State, and National elections. By virtue of a draft, you as a member of the military are protecting those very rights to vote.

Slaves did not have a right to voice an opinion, as a member of the United States military I am still able to voice my opinion and do so very often right here on ATS...thank You Springer and Skeptic. I also protest your right to do so. Be thankful you are not in many other Countries that have mandatory Inscription. I personally feel we should as the military provides so many...so many opportunities whether it be learning a skill, an education, or the opportunity to travel.

a reply to: Thetan

Slaves can't say no and get out. With the draft you can.

I did in Vietnam days. Medical, student or family hardship can get you deferred from it.

My draft number was up, I got a student deferment and went to college.

Back then, as now...one could get a deferment and not go, enlist voluntarily and go to Germany...or be drafted and you for sure were heading to the war in Nam.

None of the draft is akin to slavery

a reply to: EternalSolace

One of the conditions of being a United States citizen is signing up for selective service.

Women then, must not be United States citizens.

Or slaves.

Selective Service law as it's written now refers specifically to "male persons" in stating who must register and who would be drafted. For women to be required to register with Selective Service, Congress would have to amend the law.

www.sss.gov...

Is the draft the same as slavery?

Apple meet Orange.

As a vet, I can tell you the answer is: No.

Military life is nothing like the life of a slave.

Slaves can be born into slavery. Military personnel are not normally popped out with stripes on their arm, saluting the doctor.

Slavery for most is for life. Military personnel can leave after their obligated time, or stay for a certain amount of time before having to retire.

Military personnel can have a retirement plan. Slaves retirement was normally a hole in the ground.

Military personnel in the US get paid. They get extra pay if they are married or certain assignments. They have ranks, are awarded things like medals and ribbons, letters of commendations. Free medical care for themselves, and their spouses and children.

Slaves don't get paid. Might be lucky to have some sort of shelter and just enough food to get by.

Slaves do not earn 30 days vacation per year like US military personnel do.

Career military personnel can ask for orders to certain places they'd like to serve, keeping in mind you go where they need you. You can also attend schools that are quite technical in nature, and skills that can come handy later in life.

Slaves don't really get that option.

The military is not in the habit of grabbing your spouse and children and selling them off to whom every they damn well please.

A draft means you have to serve, even if you do not desire to do so. However, as pointed out, there is a good reason we don't have a draft anymore. Draftees suck. They don't want to be there, they want to just do it and get it over with.
All volunteer now, that's the way to go. You have people that want to be there, or see it as a opportunity.....not servitude.

However, if there were a draft, there are many ways to get out of it....ranging from legal to not so legal.

Slaves? Yah, they don't get to say no. At all. Say no and you end up with a bullet in your head, noose around your neck, or just beat to death.

Dodging the draft might get you some time in prison....but no one is looking to kill you for it.

There is nothing "like" slavery. Even if you break the law and become a inmate in prison, you do your time and get out (unless you were so bad you get life, or worse), but even then, you volunteered to go there. You volunteered to break the law.

Comparing any of this stuff to slavery is a joke. If there were any slaves alive today they'd be pretty pissed off with the comparison.

Again: Apple meet Orange.

a reply to: eriktheawful

As one who narrowly avoided winning (losing?) Uncle Sam's numbers game, I agree. The OP's criteria for slavery are inadequate.

a reply to: eriktheawful

its not about living like a slave its the dissolvment of consent and being used as property, being forced to fight and potentially die. when you dont get to say no to fighting in a war, that's when you no longer have freedom. its nice not all the enlisted get shot at but, if you're unlucky, suddenly the draft doesn't look so much like a career.


again, i dont care if they shove hundred dollar bills up my crack, it wont matter if im dead.

a reply to: vjr1113

Non issue.

Again: you can get out of a draft.

You can't get out of slavery as easy as you can get out of a draft.

You don't want to serve? Run. No one is going to kill you for it.

You don't want to be a slave? Run....you'll be hunted down and in a lot of cases if you kept trying to run, put down like an animal.

Again: the comparison of slavery to the draft is like comparing a hamster to a grizzly bear.

Ludicrous, insane, and one of them most ignorant things I've seen here on ATS.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: eriktheawful

As one who narrowly avoided winning (losing?) Uncle Sam's numbers game, I agree. The OP's criteria for slavery are inadequate.

Damn Phage, and here I thought you were a young dude.

When I raised my right hand and said: I do. the draft had been gone for quite a long time.

a reply to: vjr1113

if you're unlucky, suddenly the draft doesn't look so much like a career.

If you were drafted, it wasn't.

a reply to: eriktheawful

yea you're right. the consequences of draft avoidance are apparently 5 years fed prison and 250k fine. no driver's license or a chance at getting a job. so a possible chance at infantry worst case scenario or the above. seems like a crap choice to me. probably a good thing we dont have a draft. my whole argument was the dissolving of consent.


fed/state job that is