POLITICS: Get Over It!

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
I do have a great idea for insureing future election results...

have everyone stay where they voted for the entire day until all votes are counted... (fairgrounds, concert halls ect...)

and if the votes are counted, and people don't like it, then everyone picks up a bat and the last one left standing represents the winner...

I support that idea! We can all drink and talk trash to the opposing side, and at the end of the night, let the bloodbath begin! True democracy in action.

Originally posted by Seekerof

as posted by soficrow
...some advocate civil war.

"Some" referes to who and whom?
You mean like those Democrats that also advocated and then took this country into a Civil War in 1861?

Not likely....




seekerof

I think you know very well that the democrats and republicans have switched positions since then. The dems were the conservative party and the republicans were the liberal party. They're not the same parties as they were 150 years ago, no matter how much the members would like to pretend that they are.

The switch happened in 1920s and 1930s and completed in the 60s when all the white southerners saw that the Dems supporting the civil rights movement. By of course you already know this Mr. Smarty-pants, way above top secret, researcher. Just like you wouldn't lower yourself to taking a cheap swipe at the democrats by spouting an intellectually dishonest untruth....

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Yo. This is about protecting democracy - not partisan popularity contests. We're voters here, not Grade 6 cheerleaders. And we've got a problem.

Trickmastertrick says, "The whole thing everyone seems to miss is that the US voting System is horrible. ... I'm not picking or advocating sides, something needs to be done for the people who choose their elected officials."

dubiousone says, "Please join me in calling for: 1) a full investigation of election irregularities; 2) measures to ensure that ballots cannot easily be miscounted, and can be recounted." ...Dubiousone's research is impressive. Check it out.

We all know: The US election process does not work; the problems need to be addressed; the focus on partisanship is a red herring - it hides the real issues.

...Voters in the Ukraine stood up, and were counted. They fixed their system. They made their votes count. But it looks like us Americans just don't have the cajones to do what it takes.

I'd like to see everyone who thinks it doesn't matter write a letter to our founding fathers explaining why, and telling them they wasted their time.



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Another irony with the US government. They proclaim to spread democracy over the World but they dont even have it at home.

Public apathy is the enemy, YOU the people have let it get to this situation. If there was a $10 tax put on McDonalds you'd picket Congress for God's sake. You lose your voice in the running of the most powerful country in the World and the majority dont even know its happend.

I'd recommend mass demonstrations, use the Ukrainian Yushenko supporters tactics and get out there in your millions and tell them your're not going to take it lying down.

They cant use their media cronnies to hide multiple millions of pissed of hard working Americans picketting the heart of Washington DC can they?

If I was an American and this was happening to me I'm damn sure I would atleast TRY and get it going.

Proper conspiricy theory demands that these core Diebold programmers will commit suicide or die under strange circumstances in the coming 10 years , to tie up any loose ends...Let's just wait and see....

One can hardly get over the stolen 2000 election, now we're expected to get over this one. Things dont work out that way.
While most Americans are reeling from the first "election" they demand a fair and accurate count for this one. The voodoo black boxes were said to be hacked and tampered with, so we're just supposed to sit back, and listen to the "thieves" tell us this did not happen, right?
We have questions that need to be answered.

Strange, i've been around for awhile and never, in my lifetime, did i ever see the United States experience vote fraud prior to this. At least, not the presidential vote. Even with daddy Bush, things were not so.
In comes the boob of all times and Republicans determined to have a Republican in the White House, and VOILA.

You cant blame the Dems or those not Republicans for suspecting and smelling a rat, can you?
Sure, its easier if we just follow like mindless sheep, its easier if none of us objects to the murders, the wars all inflicted by this "president", but some of us cannot deal with the fraud, or percieved fraud. I'm afraid in my eyes its like a husband who is a dog and hits the streets looking for women while i sleep HE CANT BE TRUSTED.

My 5 cents.

If you listen to the right wingers you can only imagine how childhood must have been for them. They would be sitting at the table playing a game of monopoly with a family member. They would get up to go to the bathroom. When they came back they would have found that someone had taken all their money from their side of the board. When they objected to their money being stolen by another player they were told to just "get over it". Yeah... its weak and lame but so is the response today from the thieves that stole the 2000 and 2004 elections.

i like your analogy, Indy.

I think i've been at a couple of their monopoly games

Me too. And it was always the liberal family members that were doin' the dirty deeds.

Originally posted by syntaxer

So they find disenfranchisement of voters in Ohio akin to an X-file episode? Well thanks for the insensitive statement big brother! By the way, which episode would that be? Is it the episode where Mulder Scully finds no WMDs, or the one where they forge documents misleading our nation into war?

Neocons.. pffft

Amazing......So now it is all the fault of Republicans.....figures...

There were cases in which deliberate fraud was found to be done by democrats, liberals and other groups which oppose republicans, you can find links and "real documentation" which proves it in these same forums. There were cases in which otes which did not exist were given to Kerry.

As some members are saying there are people from both groups that have done fraud, do a little research and you will find that fraud as what happened in 2000 and 2004 have happened in the past, but most if not all these cases were found and recounts were done. This year there have also been recounts, but some of those people which oppose republicans jsut can't accept that fact.

How many times do you want recounts to be done?...would you ever accept it if 100 times it was done and they find the results would be the same? i doubt it.... BTW, Nader is suing democrats and Kerry for voter fraud, taking away many of Nader's voters in illegal ways....he did not sue Bush...he sued Kerry. This has also been posted in these forums.

Yes, we do need better systems to be put in place to try to counter voter fraud, but i doubt we will ever, or any other country for that matter, get rid of all voter fraud. Like counterfeiters, those people that will result to voter fraud will always find new ways. I am not saying not to do anything, but thinking the problem will be solved easily is foolhardy.

[edit on 8-1-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
I am not saying not to do anything, but thinking the problem will be solved easily is foolhardy.

[edit on 8-1-2005 by Muaddib]

...The problem won't be solved at all if it's not acknowledged - or if it's consistently reduced to the level of a Grade 6 popularity contest.

We're looking to protect democracy here. Thinking this can happen without broad-based dialogue is short-sighted. Thinking it might happen without passionate commitment is wishful.



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[edit on 9-1-2005 by soficrow]

Originally posted by soficrow

...The problem won't be solved at all if it's not acknowledged - or if it's consistently reduced to the level of a Grade 6 popularity contest.

We're looking to protect democracy here. Thinking this can happen without broad-based dialogue is short-sighted. Thinking it might happen without passionate commitment is wishful.
[edit on 9-1-2005 by soficrow]

We are protecting our republic...recounts were done, even Kerry conceded that Bush won, and Kerry had 10,000 lawyers looking.

The problem that i see is that a group of people do not want Bush in power at all, and they will not accept that Bush won no matter how many recounts are done.

Originally posted by Muaddib


We are protecting our republic...recounts were done, even Kerry conceded that Bush won, and Kerry had 10,000 lawyers looking.

I don't agree. We are not protecting our republic - or democracy. There are serious endemic problems with the US voting system, its accountability and our ability to recount votes accurately. Voting machines have proved unreliable, and of greatest concern, disallow recounts by nature of the beast.

You persist in evaluating the problem, and its purported solution, as if it were a grade school popularity contest. It's not. The problem is a systems problem, and requires a MUCH broader perspective and analysis.




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Something I have noticed while reading through this thread. There are some people out there saying "If you dont like waht going on, either get out there and protest, or get over it."

Well, to those who think this, let me give you another way to look at protesting. We OBVIOUSLY DONT want to just "get over it", as that would mean that tyranny in this country had succeded in the abo0lishment of true democracy, so we want to protest. Before we can go out and protest, we look at other protest to see the outcome so we have an Idea of what to do, and what not to do. The problem is; every time we--Liberals--protest something, we are labled as whiners, or dissenters by the neocons. We are told that since we dont agree with thier views, we are unpatriotic. Since we dont agree with thier way og running the government, we are Communist; and when we REALLY start hitting a nerve with Neocons at a demonstration, they will lock up our stay at home, mini van driving, peacefull mothers; our non-violent and non-threatening 18-24 year olds; our hard working fathers who are trying to make a better living for thier families. The Noecons have our hands zip tied behind our backs and herded into a fenced off area like a herd of cattle that is causeing problems on the range.

The fact is, Neocons wont let us protest because they are afraid we will let the truth out to the world and change everything away from thier favor. So, as a Liberal, we are stuck untill something either gives or breaks in our favor.

The best analogy I can make for the Neocons is to compare them to the combine guards in Half Life 2. The guards in the game will leave you alone as long as you dont make a single mistep in thier point of view. But one small deviation and they come down on you with electrified batons untill you submit to thier will. The Neocons are strong arming the Liberal party into a passiveness and an acceptance that we will not accept. So to the noecons, I say what has been said to us on so many occasions.......GET OVER IT!

Originally posted by Muaddib
The problem that i see is that a group of people do not want Bush in power at all, and they will not accept that Bush won no matter how many recounts are done.

This would be accurate except for one small thing. The votes being recounted are the votes within the dibold database. These are the very same votes that have been tampered with. So they are recounting invalid votes. This is why it will ALWAYS come out on the Neocon side of the coin. They are unwilling to actually do a revote because they know Bush would lose in a completly fair election. If I am wrong, then you neocons should ban together with us Liberals in calling for a re-election. After all, if Bush were to win under a completly fair election, we Liberals would have to shut up. Of course, this will never happen, but it is something to consider.

Originally posted by soficrow
You persist in evaluating the problem, and its purported solution, as if it were a grade school popularity contest. It's not. The problem is a systems problem, and requires a MUCH broader perspective and analysis.

You are trying to destroy my argument by making a patronizing analogy, I could say the same and tell you that you are whining like a little girl, if we are going to use patronizing analogies....

Originally posted by Kidfinger
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The best analogy I can make for the Neocons is to compare them to the combine guards in Half Life 2. The guards in the game will leave you alone as long as you dont make a single mistep in thier point of view.
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Now life is just a video game, or computer game?....

Ok, you said it all.

[edit on 9-1-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by Kidfinger
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The best analogy I can make for the Neocons is to compare them to the combine guards in Half Life 2. The guards in the game will leave you alone as long as you dont make a single mistep in thier point of view.
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Now life is just a video game, or computer game?....

Ok, you said it all.

[edit on 9-1-2005 by Muaddib]

OH GIVE ME A BREAK! I never said life is a video game. I made an analogy to the game. Get off your high horse and stop attempting to repress Liberal Ideas. Typical

This is the very mentality that is causing a divide in this world. I even suggestedwe work together to solve the problem once and for all, yet no Neocons are even willing to attempt this. They would rather repress all ideas that are not there own, as Muaddib has attempted to do to me. You Neocons have a God complex.

Originally posted by Kidfinger
OH GIVE ME A BREAK!

I never said life is a video game. I made an analogy to the game. Get off your high horse and stop attempting to repress Liberal Ideas. Typical

This is the very mentality that is causing a divide in this world. I even suggestedwe work together to solve the problem once and for all, yet no Neocons are even willing to attempt this. They would rather repress all ideas that are not there own, as Muaddib has attempted to do to me. You Neocons have a God complex.

You suggested to once more have an election....because it didn't go the way you wanted it to.... you also were the one to make an analogy suggesting republicans are like the "evil guards" in "a video game"........ and you are talking about others having a God complex.....

kidfinger, if you are looking for someone with a God Complex, look in a mirror.

[edit on 9-1-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib


You suggested to once more have an election....

Well, if you have nothing to lose, then whats the problem?

because it didn't go the way you wanted it to....

There are many American citizens who feel the election was rigged. If it was a rigged election, doesnt it deserve to be looked at and dealt with? If there is even just circumstantial evidence that the elections were rigged, dont they deserved to be scrutinized? If you have nothing to lose, then whats the problem?

you also were the one to make an analogy suggesting republicans are like the "evil guards" in "a video game"........

Umm...... It happens to be a game I am playing right now so it is fresh on my mind. And the analogy fits. Play the game and see.

and you are talking about others having a God complex.....

Yes, his name is Bush.

kidfinger, if you are looking for someone with a God Complex, look in a mirror.

The only thing I see when I look in the mirror is one damn good looking Liberal. I definatly dont see God. I wouldnt even begin to put myself anywhere near that assumption as I am not worthy of the comparison.