POLITICS: Get Over It!

Did you actually read the whole article? you obviously didn't, that first...and do you actually think these people deserve 47 years in jail for reading passages of the bible to this group of gays, homosexuals etc? Even after the "Pink Angels", as the group of homosexuals and gays call themselves, surrounded the Christians, taunting them, shouting at them, and blowing whistles in the Christian's ears?...

Second, you obviously do not understand that you cannot in your right mind make an analogy of real life with what happens in a "sci-fi computer game"..... Much less saying that Republicans are like "the evil guards in a game."

Third, you seem to insinuate that freedom of speech gives you, or anyone else, the right at any moment and at any time to make a demonstration...that can happen in an anarchy with no government, but in a Republic there is a government, and there are laws. Those laws are there to make sure that the demonstrations are peaceful, and they do not disrupt the rights of others.

originally posted by dubiousone
The point is the validity of the election. That your candidate "won" is beside the point. Speaking in support of the result doesn't address the issue. Validity of the election is a serious issue.

Good points dubiousone.

Originally posted by dawnstar

The voting process is the core of our government, if it's been compromised, our democracy is in serious danger.

NO SOLDIER SERVING IN OUR ARMED FORCES SHOULD EVER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THEIR VOTE NOT BEING COUNTED....and this happened in 2000 ....they need to fix it.

Thank you dawnstar for getting us back to the issue.

Accepting that our election process is flawed, perhaps dangerously, where do we go from here?



.

Maudib. First off, your article was VERY slanted. I DID read the whole thing, and it was so laced with hate for the left that it made it sound silly. So I did a little searching and low and behold, the truth about your article REALLY comes out. Now lets see why these people were arrested.

Fahling said that a video of the confrontation showed Marcavage speaking through a bullhorn while he and his supporters were "being shouted down by irate gay activists."......................


However, city officials told the Philadelphia Inquirer that the video did not show the start of the confrontation, when they said Marcavage tried to interrupt an onstage performance with his preaching and then disobeyed a police order to move to the perimeter of the "block party" to avoid the potential for violence................



"They were not prohibited from preaching," said Karen Brancheau, a lawyer for the district attorney's office. "A reasonable request was made to prevent a situation from becoming dangerous to their own safety, as well as the safety of the participants.".......................

www.crosswalk.com...

And this is from another Christian News site. So even this is slanted in thier favor. Now step back and be objective about who's rights were being trampled on. The 'Pink Angels' procured a permit for the parade. The religous zelots who were preaching bigotry, rudly interuppted thier parade with insults over a bull horn, and an attempt to rush a stage where an event was taking place. They refused to leave when police asked them to, and when they were escorted away, they resisted arrest. Your article doesnt hold much water now, does it.

I also see you still have not figured out what an analogy is






Sofi,

Sorry about getting off topic, but you know how it is when people attempt to twist the truth.

It wont happen agian. I believe I have made my point.

Anyway, you are correct about the voting system being corrupt. I have often advocated the reform, or even the total abolishment of the Electorial college. I really think that in this day and age, with such a diverse population, the popular vote should be what elects the president. The electorial vote holders do NOT have to cast them in favor of the popular vote. There is nothing set up in Law to prevent this. That in itself, under true Democracy, makes the system corrupt and viably unstable. Im not sure just how we should fix this mess, but I know that if we dont figure it out soon, it may be to late to figure it out ourselves.

Perhaps you did not understand the whole purpose of my post, it was to show you that not only Liberals, Democrats, Greens etc get arrested by doing such things, you were implying in your post that "the evil Republicans" are always the ones to get the Liberals, Greens, Democrats etc jailed. I am not sure about the 47 years in prison, but even spending a year in prison for what these people did is too much imo. They should be doing community services, not being thrown in jail.

Looks like there's general agreement that our election system needs work. If we focus on the past, someone will question the results of every election. ...If we look forward, maybe we can find some solutions.

Kidfinger says lose the Electoral College - someone else says no... Can we get some expansion here? Ie., explain whay or why not...

...Most say lose the electronic voting machines. Is there a way to keep them and have a verifiable trail? ....jsobecky pointed out that an election official could spoil a paper ballot just by marking a second choice - but at least 2 parties watch the coundt so I wonder if that's really possible...



.

Originally posted by soficrow


Kidfinger says lose the Electoral College - someone else says no... Can we get some expansion here? Ie., explain whay or why not...

...Most say lose the electronic voting machines. Is there a way to keep them and have a verifiable trail? ....jsobecky pointed out that an election official could spoil a paper ballot just by marking a second choice - but at least 2 parties watch the coundt so I wonder if that's really possible...



.

First off, Big congrats on your new reporter status!*giving a standing ovation* You make a parent proud

As far as Loosing the EC, I have started a thread on this a while back, ill dig up the link and post it. But I think that everyones opinion should be counted. You could make it mandatory for the politicians seeking presidency to spend the same amount of time campaigning in the less populated areas as they do in the highly populated areas. This is basically what the EC is attempting to make up for. Also, limit the amount of money spent on campaigning to a few million instead of a small island. Make the playing field a more even playing field for all parties, not just the two primary ones. We ALL deserve a voice in this country, no matter what our party affilliation is.


Getting ris of the voting machines would also be a good start. The paper ballot is the way to go. There are measures that could be taken to ensure the legitimacy of each vote. You could have a counting table with representitaves from each party. At the table, one party would begin counting the ballots and pass them opff to the rep sitting next to them. This would help to ensure a fair vote count. Also, you could not allow any penciles or other marking devices in the count room.

Thats all for now. Ill go find that link


Edit:
Here it is:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

There are a lot of good opinions here about what exactly could be done about the EC.

[edit on 1/12/05 by Kidfinger]

Well, there is such a thing as the printers, isn't there, and well, I've taken classes in COBOL. FORTRAN, and a few others, I am sure they could find out a way to introduce a print command into their little machines. God, Bush wants to spend how much money to send a few men to mars....well, if they can do that, producing a paper trail on those machines should be a breeze.....can't see why they weren't designed with it to begin with. unless of course, they just didn't want to investigate.

And, well, I think the Electoral College should go. This past election, well, my husband was very much anti-Kerry, and well, I don't like Bush too much. We argueda little, and well, I wanted peace, so I finally told him that I wouldn't vote for Kerry (it didn't matter anyways, since I knew NY would go dem.) So, I thought about it, and voted for a third party since I really ain't too happy with either of the two parties. He voted for Bush...but really that didn't matter either, since we all knew that the state would go dem. Well, the point I am making here is that those with a minority opinion in any state, do not have their vote counted in the final tally...it's like the states say, well, their vote is insignificant and not worth worrying about and then they go on their merry way and please the majority of their state. Some people are not being represented in the process and sometimes, if they had taken into consideration all of us voters, well, we would have had a different president.

and well, hate to say this, but I kind doubt if any of this matters now.....by the time this administration is done, we'll probably be a dictatorship or something.

and oh, ANY computer voting machine should have it's source code available for the public to examine, if this is a problem for big business, maybe our government should be the ones making the machines.

[edit on 13-1-2005 by dawnstar]

Did you even think that if source codes were given to the public that there would be even more fraud?.....

How many hackers are out there that would love for this to happen, so they can cause even more mayhem? How many kids out there cause viruses and attack big businesses, small businesses and even the computer of regular Joe and Jane?....

I don't see any dictatorship in the horizon, all I have seen, if you look deeper into every article that is posted here and which people jump in saying it's Republicans and the Republican president doing this.... perhaps you should look from what states and what kind of judges are passing these laws that so many members in here are proclaiming to be unconstitutional.



[edit on 13-1-2005 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
Did you even think that if source codes were given to the public that there would be even more fraud?.....

Sounds like a good criticism - do you have an alternate recommendation?

I don't see any dictatorship in the horizon,

Maybe you should read more.

... people jump in saying it's Republicans and the Republican president doing this.... perhaps you should look from what states and what kind of judges are passing these laws that so many members in here are proclaiming to be unconstitutional.

...Most say a long-running agenda is escalating - Bush is president - so discussion about current events brings up his name. Democrats are old news; Clinton's gone. Get over it. We are all here, now.

...This thread is about fixing the election system - earlier you said (basically) that the problem was complicated. ...Do you have an analysis or any recommendations of your own to offer for evaluation and discussion?



.

Without having gone back to reread all the posts and linked resources, it occurs to me to ask: Were any or all of the suspect voting machines connected to the internet or a private network real-time during the voting process? In other words, did anyone have access to the numbers real-time as they were being compiled within the "black box" voting machines. Was there opportunity to intervene, without detection, to prevent an undesired result before the final tabulations were spat out?

Originally posted by dubiousone
Without having gone back to reread all the posts and linked resources, it occurs to me to ask: Were any or all of the suspect voting machines connected to the internet or a private network real-time during the voting process? In other words, did anyone have access to the numbers real-time as they were being compiled within the "black box" voting machines. Was there opportunity to intervene, without detection, to prevent an undesired result before the final tabulations were spat out?

Good questions, Dubiousone.

Does anyone know?


.