Can't a "Progressive" also be a "Patriot"?

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I've never understood how it's supposedly not "patriotic" for progressives to want our country to treat all of its citizens fairly, and for all of our citizens to have high quality health care, clean air & water, and a strong safety net.

I don't get how that's unpatriotic either...... o_O

We're literally trying to improve the standard of living for everyone in the country. We start with people who are the poorest because those citizens need the most help.

But somehow, us wanting Americans to not suffer from poverty, tainted foods, and a polluting energy supply is "unpatriotic". SMH

It makes no sense to me, either.....

Sorry progressives may call themselves 'patriots' but it doesn't make it so.

IMO a patriot puts the IDEALS of this nation above party, and state.

And those ideals are not current political issues, and who is either the right or left's red headed step childs at the moment.

There is nothing really 'progressive' about progressives.

Just the same conversations the current generation has that Adams,Washington, and Jefferson use to have.

a reply to: neo96

There is nothing really 'progressive' about progressives.

Just the same conversations the current generation has that Adams,Washington, and Jefferson use to have.

So, in your view then, please answer these two questions:

1) Are you meaning that Adams', Washington's, and Jefferson's conversations were inconsequential?

and

2) What part(s) of their conversations do you find problematic?

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: breakingbs

You said basically that conservatives are not interested in improving things. This can only be interpreted as ignorance or an insult.

I'm sorry - ??? Can you show me the text that indicates this to you? I like to be careful about my wording.
I realize I have admitted calling myself a "progressive" - but I have also said I consider myself a "patriot."

The whole thread is about change..... is that change "improving" or "not improving" the way things are?

Okay now you're just being condescending. I dont care about you revising your "wording." Dont mess with me any further because if you were at all a just politician in nature and not just trifling you'd be done with this stuff. Have a good day. You know what I mean. I quoted you already. Im not personally hurt nor do I want to trifle further. How bout you do the busywork and go back. I already stated I dont inform the ignorant. Its all there unless someone deletes it. I told you I had to type quickly. If you wanted to, you could have taken it like a fellow and not trifled with all those winking incinuations that im not making sense. Apparently you like to needle. Stop it already. Be a fellow and just quit it. Ok?

originally posted by: neo96
Sorry progressives may call themselves 'patriots' but it doesn't make it so.

IMO a patriot puts the IDEALS of this nation above party, and state.

And those ideals are not current political issues, and who is either the right or left's red headed step childs at the moment.

There is nothing really 'progressive' about progressives.

Just the same conversations the current generation has that Adams,Washington, and Jefferson use to have.

Modern day "Progressives" are a Personality Cult which VOTES. They are actually Apolitical...not political.

There's no cohesion or logic to MOST of their ideas. Like I said, it seems to be more of a "Secular Religion" than an actual political platform.

"Progressives" have made a RELIGION out of politics. And I've lived long enough to see it come to full fruition.

This isn't your Mother's Kennedy, Carter, dare I say even CLINTON. It's become something nefarious, as of 2016, where we are now.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Of course people can help others in their free time. I don't need a government agency to help me teach my nephew how to do something. But it's also common sense to me to have our government agencies and institutions work to help the public as much as possible. Otherwise, what's the point in a government in the first place? They already spend our tax dollars and will continue to rack up public debt either way, as both Republicans and Democrats have shown. So at least they can reallocate those funds to help the Americans who actually need the help, as opposed to allocating it to the MIC and Wall St.

Hi. My heart is up in my throat right now, after reading this.

Thank you for being here.

No problem

Don't let the other responses get you down, either. There's been so much propaganda against what it means to be progressive that many people won't even consider what it means to us. It's the same for "socialist", "liberal", and many other commonly demonized political phrases.

Ironically, some of those same people know full well about "agent provocateurs" and con men who can infiltrate a movement specifically to make it look bad. And they also will point out how media and politicians lie to demonize their own side for political gain. But then they turn around and act like the same thing can't or doesn't happen against progressives.

From most of my observations, I've realized that most people (that I've encountered) want to make America "better". But the major disagreements are on "how to make it better", "how to pay for it", and "who will see the improvements". Things like this need to be talked about so I'm glad you made this thread. So stay strong & keep pushing for progress.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Modern day "Progressives" are a Personality Cult which VOTES. They are actually Apolitical...not political.

Yes, and yes.

There's no cohesion or logic to MOST of their ideas.

False.

Like I said, it seems to be more of a "Secular Religion" than an actual political platform.

Would you kindly rephrase and/or expound on this thought, please? How is it not a 'political platform'?

(see: Ted Cruz)

"Progressives" have made a RELIGION out of politics. And I've lived long enough to see it come to full fruition.

You would rather make POLITICS out of RELIGION?

(see: Ted Cruz)

This isn't your Mother's Kennedy, Carter, dare I say even CLINTON. It's become something nefarious, as of 2016, where we are now.

Do tell - prithee - how is it "nefarious"?

(see: Ted Cruz).


That is all.

originally posted by: neo96
Sorry progressives may call themselves 'patriots' but it doesn't make it so.

IMO a patriot puts the IDEALS of this nation above party, and state.

And those ideals are not current political issues, and who is either the right or left's red headed step childs at the moment.

There is nothing really 'progressive' about progressives.

Just the same conversations the current generation has that Adams,Washington, and Jefferson use to have.

LOL Like threatening to quit & secede from that very nation? Or arming themselves and forming militias specifically for the sake of fighting that very nation? How is that patriotic?

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Of course people can help others in their free time. I don't need a government agency to help me teach my nephew how to do something. But it's also common sense to me to have our government agencies and institutions work to help the public as much as possible. Otherwise, what's the point in a government in the first place? They already spend our tax dollars and will continue to rack up public debt either way, as both Republicans and Democrats have shown. So at least they can reallocate those funds to help the Americans who actually need the help, as opposed to allocating it to the MIC and Wall St.

Hi. My heart is up in my throat right now, after reading this.

Thank you for being here.

No problem

Don't let the other responses get you down, either. There's been so much propaganda against what it means to be progressive that many people won't even consider what it means to us. It's the same for "socialist", "liberal", and many other commonly demonized political phrases.

Ironically, some of those same people know full well about "agent provocateurs" and con men who can infiltrate a movement specifically to make it look bad. And they also will point out how media and politicians lie to demonize their own side for political gain. But then they turn around and act like the same thing can't or doesn't happen against progressives.

From most of my observations, I've realized that most people (that I've encountered) want to make America "better". But the major disagreements are on "how to make it better", "how to pay for it", and "who will see the improvements". Things like this need to be talked about so I'm glad you made this thread. So stay strong & keep pushing for progress.

But REALITY doesn't care about your 'solutions to make it all better"

Unfortunately, in the past and now present, almost every "Progressive" or "Liberal" (somehow always ends up Statist) policy turns out to be detrimental. It's cool that you are a "Believer" in "Progressivism" but how is it on paper?

The PROBLEM with "Liberals" is that they intend great things, great roads paved of gold, and they almost always end up leading to HELL.

Why? Why do Liberals possess an almost innate or inbred DISABILITY which makes them poor observers of DATA and HISTORY?

I don't get it. Liberals are BELIEVERS, not Rationalists or Pragmatists...almost completely the contrary.

I don't even think you guys are POLITICAL in nature anymore. You're a Personality Cult. There's almost no way around that now. It's very hard to listen to the "Left" because the arguments are circular, avoid known DATA, and are based almost completely on "feelings" and emotion.

It's destroying us like a cancer while being touted MORE and MORE....the more it FAILS.

Can "Liberals" at least choose a Religion or something else? Hell, I would be happier if you guys went the Jesus Freak route instead or all become Hari Krishnas.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I'm not gonna respond to your childish assertions which are vague and not even nuanced or thought out.

"Ted Cruz" isn't an argument. If you wish to debate something, then debate. Don't act like a child. I don't have time for it.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I don't get it. Liberals are BELIEVERS, not Rationalists or Pragmatists...almost completely the contrary.

I don't even think you guys are POLITICAL in nature anymore. You're a Personality Cult. There's almost no way around that now. It's very hard to listen to the "Left" because the arguments are circular, avoid known DATA, and are based almost completely on "feelings" and emotion.

Each post of yours in this thread is nothing but emotion and opinion - no facts or rational explanations

Lots of caps

And this:

But REALITY doesn't care about your 'solutions to make it all better"

What does that even mean? Does it sound rational to you?

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I don't have time for it.

Well, that's not true

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

Can "Liberals" at least choose a Religion or something else?

No.

Hell, I would be happier if you guys went the Jesus Freak route instead or all become Hari Krishnas.

Separation of Religion and Politics. Ya know......

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I'm not gonna respond to your childish assertions which are vague and not even nuanced or thought out.

"Ted Cruz" isn't an argument.

He would very much like it if you would think so.......though. Do you know who he is?

If you wish to debate something, then debate.

Doing my best.

Don't act like a child. I don't have time for it.

I'm not acting like anyone except myself - giving you a chance to answer rather than insulting.
I do have time for it, though.....

My posts stand.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I don't get it. Liberals are BELIEVERS, not Rationalists or Pragmatists...almost completely the contrary.

I don't even think you guys are POLITICAL in nature anymore. You're a Personality Cult. There's almost no way around that now. It's very hard to listen to the "Left" because the arguments are circular, avoid known DATA, and are based almost completely on "feelings" and emotion.

Each post of yours in this thread is nothing but emotion and opinion - no facts or rational explanations

Lots of caps

And this:

But REALITY doesn't care about your 'solutions to make it all better"

What does that even mean? Does it sound rational to you?

1) I could go on and on for HOURS citing every aspect of 'policy' that Progressives uphold and how they are not rational, logical, or in the interest of our country/world.

I gave a very SPECIFIC example previously...(The Transgender bathroom post)

2) Yes Dorothy, we aren't in Kansas. REALITY...on PAPER...doesn't CARE....about your FEELINGS or EMOTIONS...(Caps)

Liberal ideology is largely based on EMOTION (caps) and ignores massive amounts DATA (caps again) to come to many of it's "Political" conclusions.

(Caps caps caps)

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I'm not gonna respond to your childish assertions which are vague and not even nuanced or thought out.

"Ted Cruz" isn't an argument. If you wish to debate something, then debate. Don't act like a child. I don't have time for it.

Neither do I, but I thought I'd give you a chance.

My posts stand.

Your posts stand? That sounds declarative.

Now make an ARGUMENT and cite a specific. I can't respond to bumper stickers being used as political discussion.

CHOOSE COKE NOT PEPSI....TED CRUZ...WAFFLES...MONKEYS...BALLOONS!! Errr ummm My posts STANDS!!

*raises hand*

I have a question...

Who's personality are liberals acting "cult-y" about?

I don't know any liberals that gush about Obama or any other politician. I know A LOT ... some of the are delegates for the primaries. They're level-headed, intelligent people with strong vision and ideas about the future.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Is it possible in your opinion for a person to legitimately claim 'both' descriptives as accurate to their individuality? To be both 'patriotic' and 'progressive'?

Absolutely!

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I don't get it. Liberals are BELIEVERS, not Rationalists or Pragmatists...almost completely the contrary.

I don't even think you guys are POLITICAL in nature anymore. You're a Personality Cult. There's almost no way around that now. It's very hard to listen to the "Left" because the arguments are circular, avoid known DATA, and are based almost completely on "feelings" and emotion.

Each post of yours in this thread is nothing but emotion and opinion - no facts or rational explanations

Lots of caps

And this:

But REALITY doesn't care about your 'solutions to make it all better"

What does that even mean? Does it sound rational to you?

Exactly why I haven't responded to him/her. How can you reason with that?

EDIT to clarify: To clarify, I was referring to "reasoning with" the post you quoted, not to your post.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I made a mistake a couple of weeks ago

:-)

It happens. My search for the thinking conservative continues...

Oh, wait - I forgot - you're a libertarian! So rational - that lot