A Case For Reincarnation

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Sure. So how does it makes sense?

a reply to: ancientthunder

At the end of the day, everything is guesswork.

Is this a guess? If not, how are you so sure?

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Because every bit of matter in the universe is recycled and continues on in one form or another.

a reply to: hubrisinxs

Ok, I see what you are saying now. For you, the idea of 'form' seems similar to the Platonic Ideal Forms. Dust is not human and Human is not dust.

I guess you can say that when humans die they turn into dust which is different from and not a form of human being. But, that would also let you say that Ice is not a form of water cause it is physically different.

I can see the logic there, but I still like to think the human body transforms to dust when it dies.

Form is normally the shape of something.

It becomes dust. The body doesn't take the form of dust.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

All I will say is that just because you have not experienced something does not mean it doesn't happen. I could just as easily say that your belief that there is nothing after death is based on dogma, that doesn't make it true though.

We know very well what happens to the body after death.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

How could anyone know that the place before death is the same as the place before birth?

Physical material is reused in the process of life, but this happens on a quantum level. The individual particles in my body might have once been in many different objects, but that does not mean I am the rebirth of any specific mind from the past.

To me, the mind and body are sperate things. If one of them were to be reborn it would be the mind. Our minds are perhaps just quantum receivers that tap into the "vibration"(for lack of a better word) wave that makes up the collected unconsciousness. Though I have no proof, I like to think that when animals, in general, die their minds return to the collected mindset. When born the mind begins to pick up on signals that are coming from the collected mindset, so in that way we are all reborn through each new birth.

But, still, this too is an unprovable idea that just keeps me happy.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Because every bit of matter in the universe is recycled and continues on in one form or another.

What that has to do with rebirth and reincarnation I am unsure.

Yes its a calculated guess and that’s the point of a guess it gives no assurances. As for being sure, I guess I must be! If you say so! No just kidding, there is nothing definite and that’s for sure. a reply to: LesMisanthrope

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

If the consciousness is like the rest of nature - it will be recycled - even if on a quantum level.

The Physics Of Consciousness: The Quantum Mind And The Meaning Of Life
by Evan Harris Walker


My I ask you for an answer to a couple of questions?

Why would you dismiss the possibility out of hand?
What proof do you have that it isn't so?

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

There are 11 definitions of form in the English dictionary, I fear we are working with different ones. As you exhibited again you take Form to be in its classical use, whereas I am taking the word to a more general level.


Form comes from latin for the mold of something. Platonic forms are defined by their shape. Traditionally form is the shape of something, but a very reasonable definition of the word form is "a type or variety of something." Both a pile of human dust and a corporeal human are a type of variety of human.

Semantically I must concede, but realize that I mean "human form" to mean the physical components which make up the object and not specifically its shape.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

If the consciousness is like the rest of nature - it will be recycled - even if on a quantum level.

The Physics Of Consciousness: The Quantum Mind And The Meaning Of Life
by Evan Harris Walker

I don't believe in consciousness. It's no different than mind, soul, spirit, or any other dualist principle. It's quite clear no one even knows what it is, if it is anything all.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I don't believe in consciousness. It's no different than mind, soul, spirit, or any other dualist principle.

You don't believe in consciousness?

Are you not a conscious entity, offering your thoughts via this venue?

a reply to: hubrisinxs

I cannot see how dust is a form or type of human body, whether platonic or otherwise.

It comes down to our personal philosophies and beliefs and faith. We can add to and change with research and life experiences.

I believe that we do reincarnate. I'm not sure how or why. I don't believe that we just...stop being. If I'm wrong, then so be it, I'll never know. But that kind of life where it's all in vain for nothing, doesn't seem right to me.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

How about Category: "a class or division of people or things regarded as having particular shared characteristics."

Corporeal humans are made up of chemical compounds(a definable characteristic) and they share those compounds with the dust that once made up a human body. Dog dust, on the other hand, would not be in the same category as a human, but would be in the same category as a dog. Thus, dust, in general, is not a form of a human, but Human Dust is a category of human.

Now, I do agree that becoming dust is not a step in a process of becoming reborn, but on some level, it is a transformation the body goes through.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

You don't believe in consciousness?

Are you not a conscious entity, offering your thoughts via this venue?

I believe I am conscious most of the time, yes, but I do not believe consciousness is any sort of thing or substance. It's like saying happiness and sadness will be recycled when we die. It's nonsensical.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Hmmmm.

I believe I am conscious most of the time, yes, but I do not believe consciousness is any sort of thing or substance.

Okay.....
perhaps your definition of "thing" and "substance" is coming between our ability to communicate.

It's like saying happiness and sadness will be recycled when we die.

Happiness and sadness cycle throughout our 'conscious' lives, right here - every day.

It's nonsensical.

Not really.
Have you ever read any Alan Watts?

I know it's hard for people who came up in the occidental culture of 'linear' thinking to understand oriental thinking.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: LesMisanthrope

Hmmmm.

I believe I am conscious most of the time, yes, but I do not believe consciousness is any sort of thing or substance.

Okay.....
perhaps your definition of "thing" and "substance" is coming between our ability to communicate.

It's like saying happiness and sadness will be recycled when we die.

Happiness and sadness cycle throughout our 'conscious' lives, right here - every day.

It's nonsensical.

Not really.
Have you ever read any Alan Watts?

I know it's hard for people who came up in the occidental culture of 'linear' thinking to understand oriental thinking.

I've seen a couple of his videos. Which book of his do you recommend? I'm also reading a couple of Tao/Zen daily meditation books at the moment. I've got way too many books on my list this year. Finished one..."The Greatest Salesman in the world" Og Mandino.

a reply to: amazing

It was over 20 years ago that I first read Watts.....

the book was "The Way of Zen".

Alan Watts wiki - list all of his books

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: hubrisinxs

I cannot see how dust is a form or type of human body, whether platonic or otherwise.

Tיhe "human body" is actually only a concept. What we call human body is a sum of different parts, also made from smaller different part, all made from the same elements as the dust. So this cluster of elements we call human body and that cluster of elements dust. Then something we call death happens and the elements forming the human body break apart and slowly become...dust.
Not very different from the ice and water analogy.

But this point is not so relevant since is not the body who reincarnate, but that mysterious thing keeping the human body elements together.