2,986 Shooting Victims in Gun-Controlled Chicago During 2015

a reply to: TorqueyThePig

I didn't even personally get a conviction recorded... Never the less, when police are overflowing the system with petty drug offences, it must be a huge burden on the courts in Chicago (for example), when they have over 3000 illegal firearm offences to deal with, along with all the other violent and gang related offences that occur in that state.

It doesn't help in making the criminal justice system more efficient, or in the peoples best interest... lets put it that way.

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Vroomfondel

How would you explain the criminal acts of big banks and their billion dollar schemes?

Greed.

That is quite different than crime of poverty.

The amount of people impoverished in Chicago, only a city, is almost half that of the entire population of the neighboring state of Iowa.

You don't see a problem there? Why would you steal a loaf of bread when you can kill someone for their gold chain, pawn it and feed yourself for a month?

Poverty is the issue.

Actually, greed and poverty are two places on the same scale. Both think they should have more than they do. And both are willing to commit crime to get it.

There are a lot of poor people who do not commit crime. More than those who do. If you had any idea at all what you were talking about, you would stop now. But that isn't going to happen is it...

You should see the thugs you are talking about first hand, up close and personal, like I do. Remember, I live here. These guys have gold chains falling out their butts, which are permanently exposed for the world to see. They have grills and bling and air jordans for every day of the week. You give them a gold chain to pawn, they wont buy bread with it. They will buy another gun. obama feeds the kids for them. As long as momma keeps having babies the family gets a raise every year. That is the mentality and there is no job that will change that.

You really have no idea what you are talking about. Honestly, its not just disliking you. You really have no clue.

You do a really good job of pointing out the problems, as Introvert has asked many times in this thread, what are the solutions?

I had a rather lengthy and involved answer written, then deleted it. No matter how I word it, now matter how I try to avoid all the pc toes sticking out waiting to be stepped on, it will only invite the kind of behavior that ATS is trying to avoid.

And if you can read between the lines, there is the answer you are looking for. You can know what it is, and you can recognize it when you see it, but under no circumstances are you allowed to even suggest that it might actually be the problem. I would be willing to post what I had written, but not if it will generate the kind of response I know it will get. Truth just isn't acceptable sometimes.

Sounds like Benton Harbor MI and it's a town of less than 10,000. It starts about 11:30 and goes till 2 or so! I have a recording somewhere.

a reply to: Edumakated

a reply to: Vroomfondel

I agree, people have to choose do they want to solve the problem or do they want to be politically correct,they have to chose one or the other because the problem can`t be solved by being politically correct.

a reply to: introvert
I mean...you know. It is a conspiracy site and to ignore something is to not deny ignorance, motto of the site.

Gun control to an extent of course. Regulations. But what information is being evalulated of a person should be explicitly made known. Background checks I can support. Depends on how detailed they are...there is a thing as too much.

a reply to: Tiamat384

But what information is being evalulated of a person should be explicitly made known.

Under the current NICS system, buyers may be denied the purchase of a firearm for reasons such as being indicted or convicted of a felony, admitting to being addicted to a controlled substances, having been dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces, being subject to a restraining order, as well as other regulations.

Since its implementation in 1998, 2.1 million background checks have been denied out of 118 million requests, or almost 2%.

www.cnn.com...

It's matter of checking to see if the gun buyer meets the legal requirements for gun ownership. Those requirements may vary from state to state but are readily available for review.

originally posted by: CB328
They overturned their gun ban in 2012 yet there's more killings than ever, so obviously gun control isn't responsible for crime. How anyone with a brain could think that is beyond.

When you cram millions of people into a ghetto with no resources what do you expect to happen?

Actually, the violence did drop after the gun ban was lifted. In fact, in the first quarter of 2014, Chicago hit a 56 year low. This is not a record breaking year. It is just business as usual in Chicago.

conceal carry affect

a reply to: Vroomfondel

In fact, in the first quarter of 2014, Chicago hit a 56 year low.

It was also a pretty miserable winter. That sort of slows everything down.

How was it that summer?

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

There is a lot of truth to what you say. As I tried to point out earlier in the thread these guys are not committing crimes of necessity out of dire economic conditions. They are committing crimes of opportunity for profit, sport, gang association, or simply because someone disrespected them in some way. Life is meaningless. There are families, women, who believe that staying pregnant is a way to guarantee four raises in income every three years. That is better than most working people get. And they have the shared children game also. A women shows up at welfare with ten children and says she needs more money for her kids. An hour later another woman is there with the same ten kids saying the same thing. The sad part is these kids have been handed off and passed around and raised like cattle to the point they don't know who their parents are.

It is heartbreaking to know that these children are nothing more than a monthly income and a tax deduction. They are not taught to respect life. They see every day how little life means, their lives, and the lives around them. These children are disposable and they grow up believing the same thing about everyone. Gangs intentionally use young children to commit serious crimes because they don't go to prison. And when one of them says no, guess who is next?

There are no amount of jobs that will change that. It will take generations of re-education to break this cycle of using children as economic tools. This is not going to change over night. And in the mean time, law abiding citizens have to be able to at least try to protect themselves.

There is some truth to the conspiracy aspect of this. With so many decades of repeating the same mistakes expecting different results, at some point you have to ask yourself if TPTB are really trying to solve the problem. Everyone knows that the last thing government wants to do is fix everything. If they did, we would have no use for them any more.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Everyone knows that the last thing government wants to do is fix everything. If they did, we would have no use for them any more.

Perhaps a great part of the problem is that too many people expect the government to fix everything.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Vroomfondel

In fact, in the first quarter of 2014, Chicago hit a 56 year low.

It was also a pretty miserable winter. That sort of slows everything down.

How was it that summer?

The bad guys know that it slows the police down too. Tie up traffic enough and its help yourself at the corner market.

Since the first quarter was a 56 year low it follows to reason that the summer was higher. I don't know the percentage.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

The bad guys know that it slows the police down too. Tie up traffic enough and its help yourself at the corner market.

Check the statistics, every first quarter has a lower rate of violent crime. Doesn't seem that anyone is taking advantage of the weather to commit crimes
Homicides by month, 2001-2013.


Here's another chart annual homicides. Seems to be a significant decline prior to the new law.


I ran these charts in 2014. You can update them if you want. But I don't think it makes much sense to tie the drop in 2014 to the concealed carry law. Especially since no one had a permit until March.
data.cityofchicago.org...

originally posted by: galadofwarthethird
a reply to: jhn7537
Maybe they cant afford fireworks and just decided to use the trusty glock to celebrate the new year. This is not so much a indication of crime, more or less of stupidity, hopefully there aiming in the air at the least. But who knows eh.

For me it's more so, do you hear all those different guns being discharged in that general area?? All those (I'm sure unregistered) guns?? I would hate to be a cop patrolling that area knowing that so many people around you have loaded guns. Loaded automatic rifles... And oh yea, those same people are drinking, doing drugs, likely not in the best mindset... Chiraq is alive and well..

a reply to: Phage

I think its partially a matter of what you are looking for in the results and where you look for them.

link

The same thing happened in DC. As soon as the ban was lifted the crime rate started dropping.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

I think its partially a matter of what you are looking for in the results and where you look for them.

No one in Chicago received a permit until the end of March. The crime rate had been falling long before the law changed. To attribute the drop in crime to the the new law makes no sense. None.

a reply to: Phage

Your chart shows the only 'significant' drop was 2003 to 2004. After that the plane is very steady.

Some years it goes up. Some years it goes down. There are many catalysts to these changes. Gun laws are just part of the picture. The Chicago democrats have been relying heavily on 'gun free zone' nonsense that never works. It has never worked. It never will work. But that is their battle cry every time.

Weather has an effect. So does the full moon. So do election years. Look at your chart. The two biggest increases after the drop in 2004 were the years obama was elected, then re-elected. There are a lot of things that affect the numbers. And even more that can be associated that appear to be connected but are not. Some of the decline in statistics in Chicago has been due to re-classification of crimes to lower offenses. This is nothing new in Chicago politics. If you have too many cats, start calling some of them rabbits. Problem solved.

a reply to: jhn7537

Yeah, when the shooting first starts I believe I hear full auto fire.

The rate of fire doesn't seem very fast so I am guessing it was an AK 47.

I am sure it wasn't registered properly and the $200 tax stamp paid...

a reply to: Vroomfondel
So, you agree that attributing the fall in crime the first quarter of 2014 to the new concealed carry law makes no sense when there are so many factors which come into play.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs


Are you suggesting that without Chicago's laws there would have been less murders?

I would say without the people there it would be lot less murders...