Norway now offering formal instruction to refugees that rape is wrong

a reply to: Layaly
No harm. No foul.

I agree that religion can make quite a mess of things, since the crime of rape is being based on what people think is right or wrong.

With every religion thinking they hold the key to righteousness and everyone that doesn't follow their religion is doomed to hell, it makes it impossible to have a common meeting point.

That is why there is no place for religion in the establishment of, or the penalties in law.

originally posted by: Layaly
the problem is that the OP is directed at Muslim religion being the cause of an increase in rape well that's not true

you talk about sharia law but out of 22% of a Muslim worldwide population only 12-13% percent are sharia and it is also not true that sharia law doesn't punish rape so if you want to point out statistic cover all areas ..crunch the numbers .. most rapist won't be Muslims but uneducated agreessive power tripping mentally delusional psychotic drugged up humans

Rape in Saudi Arabia
Rape in Saudi Arabia has been considerably investigated by various observers. In 1988, sexual offences stood at 2.19 rapes per 100,000 population.[1] Under Sharia law, a law generally enforced by the Islamic states(Islamic Law), punishment imposed by the court on the rapist may range from flogging to execution.

so the point is keep religion out of this argument

I am western culture
I have been raped.
I have been bashed to the point I miscarried.
I have been bashed and abused not by one but several western culture man.

From experience actually the Muslim man I interacted with are beautiful souls my Muslim friend pulled me out of depression my Muslim boss helped me out of abusive relationship my Muslim friends excel at university and helped me achieve better scores my Muslim friends treat me with respect and teached me so many wonderful things I won't let anyone categorise these man and woman as rapists

my western culture is far from ideal

if I don't put out I am not cool if I don't walk out in mini skirt with heels I am not desirable.. in my life time my culture went from if you are not married by 21 you are a social outcast to kids having sex at the age of 12 because of peer pressure

so let's focus here a little

obviously the concerns in this OP is the culture of refugees from a particular demographic area so let's talk about the concern I am not interested in global issues or religion in this conversation why? Simply because us arguing here won't fix Jacksquad and me and you don't need to create friction.. me and you are not the enemies

I don't think you are thinking about this clearly. First off don't defend the subjugation of women. If you don't think it happens in great numbers in the ME you are wrong.

Luckily the largest by far Muslim population is in Indonesia where they are more moderate. Turkey more moderate (though going backwards under Erdogan) and Jordan.

Saudia Arabia your example is one of the worst places to be for a woman. Yeah there are people convicted of rape very rarely and aost always the victim is also punished.

Like the poor girl last month who was gang raped 14 times and was whipped 200 times for driving a car without a man. If you are raped while not with a man you know you will be punished even if the rapist is convicted. If you are a wife as young as 9 and don't want to have sex too bad. No crime. You can be whipped for just being in public without a male escort. I forgot to say you need four male witnesses to even prove you were raped.

Not all this is even sharia law.

Not all Muslims are anything like this but don't pretend it isnt a massive problem. Even in your low number of 14 percent practice sharia law that's millions of people.

It's OK to not like aspects of other cultures. It's not Xnephobic to not want to condone forcibly marrying and having sex with minors. It's OK to not like that infidels are not to be treated as their own meaning rape is not a crime. Meaning sex slavery is OK.

That doesn't mean all Muslims do this. But the reformers getting their head cut off probably would like your support.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: ScepticScot

The issue isn't that Sweden has a higher rate but that the Swedish rate is accurate and too many countries underreport the issue or just don't treat huge amounts of sexual assault as a crime.

I was referring to the fact that whatever numbers were reported, before or after, that the numbers are not even close to accurate.

The crime is continuing to exist, and the numbers grow. We happen to be talking about Sweden in this post, but the results are similar in like places. Some countries have numbers that would indeed dwarf Sweden if rape was recognized as a crime in those countries, and if victims were safe, and free to report their assaults to the same degree as Sweden.

The number reporting is sure to dwindle again if the results of reporting does not show a benefit effect. If the reporters are going to be treated poorly, or are placed in danger, and their attackers are allowed to go free, with little to no punishment for their crimes, it makes reporting the crime an unwise thing to do for the victims.

Getting victims to report is a big step. But stopping the crime requires removing the rapist. There has to be swift action, severe penalties and removal of the rapist from any community were they can repeat their vile acts.

I would entirely agree. Sexual Crimes are massively under recorded and have an appallingly low conviction rate.

My issue was that some posters are trying to make case that Sweden has an abnormally high rate of sexual crimes and that this is due to immigration. This is not borne out in the statistics and the rate of recorded rape in Sweden is due to them attempting to treat sexual crimes more seriously.

originally posted by: HardBoiled
a reply to: ScepticScot

That is moving on to a separate issue.

No it really is not. The changes were introduced in 2005. One would expect to see a spike in reports the first year, then stabilisation in the years after, if there weren't more cases of rape.

There is no evidence that Sweden has more of an issue with rape that any other country.

They have at least the highest rape conviction cases per capita of the EU.

Changes to attitudes to reporting crime and recording it don't happen overnight> There has been a continuing push by the Swedish government to narrow the gap between recorded and actual sexual crime. Personally I think this a good think and I find the high-jacking of the stats to try and prove a bogus point about immigration to be irritating in the extreme.

There may or or may not be a issue with immigration and sexual crimes in Scandinavian countries. I don't think there is sufficient evidence either way to decide and I think Luther made a very valid point about cultural differences particularly when dealing with countries at the extreme ends of tolerances for sexual behaviour. But the overall Swedish Rape statistics are not relevant and should not be used for cheap point scoring,

This may surprise many, but 100% of suspects in reported assult rape cases in Norways capital, Oslo, are immigrants. Here is an interview in Norways largest paper with a leader of Oslo Police:

Immigrants behind all reported assault rapes in Oslo.



-MM

a reply to: luthier



as a woman who has been raped I am asking you to focus on how this can be fixed .. give me a solution .. you think you can walk into a country and change the law? no! you think you can abolish religion? no! You think you will change the immigration law? No! focus on how to get woman out of this situation focus on changing the mentality of those man.. you don't need to educate me and others here I am capable of thinking for myself

what I am doing here is asking people to be humane and civil.. I can tell you right know your opinion means nothing meanwhile refrain from putting all people in one basket that's the least you can do

you want better ? be better
I am not retarded I understand the situation but your superior behaviour is unnecessary to me you are no batter then anybody else don't judge the people you have no right to judge. what you think stays only btw your screen and your chair so spare yourself you're going to get yourself all worked up for nothing

Me? If the country I live in decides to do something I can't influence at least I am not going to riot making everything worse that's not a solution

Sigh... just cultural differences that will never go away.

I always see racism as it is, people that can't get over cultural differences.

I have a friend, who recently started to date an Afghan girl who was born in the U.S.

Oh man, the stories my buddy tells me, just opens my eyes to this strange culture.

All I can say is, if you're not familiar with Middle Eastern culture and traditions, oh boy are you in for a surprise.

This girl is a devoted Muslim, asked my buddy several times to convert, he's Catholic, won't do it.

Here's the overall crazy stuff:

1. Muslim girls are not allowed to date, they get family arranged marriages.
2. Normally, their families will arrange a boy to "Date" the girl "once" and if they click, they get married right away. No sex prior.
3. If you get caught dating guy by the Muslim community, oh my God, prepare to be blasted by every Muslim and shamed on by every other Muslim that knows you
4. In order to date a Muslim, you HAVE TO understand their religion. Their parents will not accept you, if you have no idea the differences between Ali and Allah.
5. Not allowed to eat pork

You know, the list goes on and on it'll probably be essay long.

To be honest, I don't know what it is about their culture but it's heavily saturated with "Radical" ideas. I don't hate Middle Eastern folks, I have no beef with their people but from self observance of how a close friend of mine changed so much just by interacting with a Muslim, I can't honestly say that their culture doesn't affect their mentality.

Believe me, during my travels on business trips, I have dined with extremely traditional Asian families and we all know how strict Asian traditions can get. But Muslim are on a totally different level.

Honestly, they can babble all day about how Sunnis and Shia are so different, in my personal opinion, they're not so different at all.

Maybe one group is more crazy than the other, but all in all, their religious believes are pretty radical.

Again, not speaking as an expert in their culture or their religious studies, just statements from my own personal observations of a guy that has been a friend for over 10 years, changed so much after just dating this girl for a few months.

Used to be a player, countless one night stands.

Now, you show him a picture of a potential one night stand, he gets super crazy mad because now he considers it a BAD thing to do.

Sweet Jesus, we all know what love can do to people, but just interacting with this culture on a certain level can really change a person's mentality, is something very shocking to me.

Apparently, their radical way of thinking is actually quite contagious to certain people. :Shrug:

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: hammanderr
a reply to: Subaeruginosa
White men tend to rape colored women at a minuscule rate. So, based on these numbers, if you are a white guy that supports non white immigration into your country. You are supporting the raping of women.

Man, I had A 'white' dude bragging to me not so long ago, how he'd raped some chick... But how there was nothing the police could do about it, since he didn't put a bruise on her, so there for it was he's word against her's.

I think you need to wake up and get a dose of reality, mate... It happens constantly! Its disgraceful and has nothing to do with Muslims!

I'm gonna go ahead and call BS on that. Police don't look at a woman, say "nope there are no bruises, you weren't raped" EVERY case of rape is required to have been taken seriously.

a reply to: luthier

upfront sorry I have lost my temper
the above is not directed at you its frustration over the global situation

I simply can't believe we are in 2015 and things haven't progressed one bit


the thing is if we want to reprogram the state of the globe we can't feed the system old information

meaning we are here right now no point looking on what things meant in past we know why are things crappy so now what

and oh your opinion matters to me I didn't mean to say that

originally posted by: truthseeker84
Apparently, their radical way of thinking is actually quite contagious to certain people. :Shrug:

I guess the force is weak with Catholics, I'm married to a die hard Catholic and after 20 years I'm still the same old evil SOB. I go to church every once in a while to support her and one time it was palm Sunday and they walk around flinging holy water on everyone off a shrubbery. Well I got a full face load and as it dripped down my face my wife asked me if it burned...hehe

a reply to: chuck258

You would be surprised.. he would be bragging later after he realised she hasn't done anything about it

my ex bashed me so hard I though he will kill me i got out and managed to call a friend (I had no where else to go) the last thing I was in a mood for is going to the cops or dealing with it.. you just want to dig yourself a hole and die

the girl has no bruises he prob f*** her the day before then raped her the next so how do u prove the second was a rape and yes I can imagine the bragging she probably just wanted to forget the whole thing

my manager (the guy who raped me) 47y old math addict told me if I open my mouth his buddy will come and find me and slice me to pieces.. for a month they were swapping driving around outside of my app watching me

a reply to: Xtrozero
Did it?

It is not so much the force is weak, it is that some folks don't throw all commonsense out the window when they accept a particular religion.

For others they lose their heads.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn

It is not so much the force is weak, it is that some folks don't throw all commonsense out the window when they accept a particular religion.

For others they lose their heads.

Well they do not like it when I put some dry ice in the holy water then put my finger in it, there are limits...lol

originally posted by: Layaly
my manager (the guy who raped me) 47y old math addict told me if I open my mouth his buddy will come and find me and slice me to pieces.. for a month they were swapping driving around outside of my app watching me

You only got two options, go to the police or take matters into your own hands. To do nothing just reinforces their actions to do it more. You have no family or friends to help you? Remember DNA is gold, don't need bruises, also pictures of them driving around your appt is gold too as is turning on your phone voice recorder as you talk to them in public. Take action, do you think your the only person they will do this to?

originally posted by: Layaly
a reply to: luthier

upfront sorry I have lost my temper
the above is not directed at you its frustration over the global situation

I simply can't believe we are in 2015 and things haven't progressed one bit


the thing is if we want to reprogram the state of the globe we can't feed the system old information

meaning we are here right now no point looking on what things meant in past we know why are things crappy so now what

and oh your opinion matters to me I didn't mean to say that

Just so you know I do work on the situation I am a judo and wrestling coach. I teach an after school self defence/anti bullying program for more middle school kids and have brought a group of highschool co ed serious judo students internationally to compete for spots on the US team. We have been to Abu Dhabi twice. When I was a competitor I went to Turkey and Europe for tournaments for half a decade.

My job is a sound engineer. I also help some kids from the judo programs record their own music. Several of these kids basically live at my house because they either have two parents in jail or one and a struggling mom.

My solution is to be brave enough to call something wrong in a diplomatic way. It is also to help bring awareness that it can change and other religions have gone through changes that allowed them to drop barbarism to fit into a modern life.

Things are changing. Look at the steady change over time. My great grandma couldn't vote or have a bank account in the US. Gay couples can get married now etc.

I had a chance to study music with an incredible musician who was also a Sufi. I am aware of how many gracious Muslims there are.
However, unfortunately there are far too many woman and children who grow up in terrible societies that practice everything I have described. I think there needs to be pressure from the west in the form of our aid packages to countries who refuse to adhere to basic human rights. Otherwise we just make the chance for moderates to reform that much harder

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: truthseeker84
Apparently, their radical way of thinking is actually quite contagious to certain people. :Shrug:

I guess the force is weak with Catholics, I'm married to a die hard Catholic and after 20 years I'm still the same old evil SOB. I go to church every once in a while to support her and one time it was palm Sunday and they walk around flinging holy water on everyone off a shrubbery. Well I got a full face load and as it dripped down my face my wife asked me if it burned...hehe

LoL, that's pretty funny dude.

But you know what... I guess the Force is weak with that friend of mine.

He never converted to a Muslim, but he is heavily affected by their culture and whether he knows it or not, he is being affected by their religious believes as well.

Here you have a guy, that used to be a player. Tries to sleep with any girl he meets at a bar. Now, 3 months into dating this middle eastern girl, he now considers a "One Night Stand" to be something you'll go to hell for.

It's crazy.

a reply to: truthseeker84

Thats Love, aka "Crazy"

originally posted by: truthseeker84
Here you have a guy, that used to be a player. Tries to sleep with any girl he meets at a bar. Now, 3 months into dating this middle eastern girl, he now considers a "One Night Stand" to be something you'll go to hell for.
It's crazy.

Friend of mine was a heavy partier/drinker and met a Mormon girl and went full Mormon since she would not have sex with him unless he was...they got divorce about 5 years later and he was done with the Mormon religion shorty after it. Guys will do all kinds of things to get laid...

So the question is your buddy better off now? One would typically think his old behavior was not very good.

a reply to: Xtrozero

You are very kind thank you for responding.. yes I am by myself .. after spending half a million (on Uni and visa in AU) I am finally getting my permanent residency. Once I don't need to submit my police clearance and don't have to explain immigration why am I going through a case .. It will be easier.. but yes I am just on my own and it was just yeah it only just happened well September last year obviously I lost my job and I was still at the university.. for. A month I couldnt leave the app I have failed the semester at uni as I didn't make it to my final exams it cost me $9400 for half year and I had no one to tell .. I still don't.. Beside two people this is pretty much the first time I admitted it out loud

to take him to cops it's such a scary thought he knows the whole math mafia here scary people maybe if I had a partner and move out from here I would be braver .. also he already was reporting for child porn files on his comp if I dob him in it means jail for a very long time and you know actually I can't digest the thought of him sitting in jail for years because of me.. My ideal would be someone f**** him up so bad he wouldn't recover and say that was for touching me .. anyway it is somethings I truly truly right now don't have an answer to I hear you that he is danger to others right now I feel he is still danger to me

a reply to: luthier

thank you for sharing that ..

you couldn't say a more perfect answer .. that is very sweet what you do and yeah huge respect sir