Is confidence a valid indicator of strength?

a reply to: namelesss

Nope, not glittery, too socially inept for that. Just invincible. All the stoplights went green for me. The stars were aligned. And I thought "well of course." Nothing else to it but that.

Nope you dont know what it is like to be me as evidenced by your views. I would never have held them. Keep in mind, the feeling is innate.

I noticed people used to pick fights with me (not the fun kind you laugh at later) for no reason. They did this because they were threatened. It was nothing I said. Not then. Thats what I meant by petty. It actually had nothing to do with you. Sorry you saw it that way it was a general thought perhaps lacking clarification.

What wears off with time is well, lets just say its kind of an icarus factor. Only I did not try it just worked out like that. The universe goes "yep, everythings perfect now WHAM- its gone!!" In this case not material items or lifestyle but, well i'm not even sure I can explain it. If you believe someone can get hit with a void and left figuring out, id place it in that category. Im fine but it took a few years and my actual physical strength.

Hence the caution. I mean that was wierd. And a bit too much all at once. My life was always difficult, but that was...a whole new plane. So yes, all the time but not like ALL the time, in which case, let me off the hook about that. Time crunch. Okay not "ALL the time." :/

Try not to let the fact you misread me twice color my one or two criticisms I actually had. Again, no you didnt imply anything. I never implied you did. Just a factoid tossed into the wind.

But if you do want to pick a fight with me, i'm into that kind of contact sport. Just not in a way it gets far too personal. Again just a mere fact not sure how else to throw it out there.

Keep in mind, also, we all have our own "tape recorders" in our heads. If you grew up around a lot of adults being bitter, sniping and ascerbic, whereas i dealt with clarity and aggression, you will be hearing one thing from my voice when i am actually conveying another.

What comes to my mind is confidence sometimes equals stubbornness. As cited, confidence comes from a notion of being right....and being stubborn about it. It's a sort of false bravado, compared to my similar arrogant state, where I'm sure that I will FIND the correct answer....confidence in my ability to analyze and reanalyze.

Old people think stubbornness is a virtue, when smarter GenX onwards understand that it's a lot better to be flexible, and remain logical too. Dr. Spock had a lot to do with influencing mass philosophy.


Am I rambling?


Reminds me too, of how analytics can tell a lot about a person from their online posts.

en.wikipedia.org...

/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learned_optimism

Is this related or informative?

Optimists are higher achievers and have better overall health. Pessimism, on the other hand, is much more common; pessimists are more likely to give up in the face of adversity or to suffer from depression. Seligman invites pessimists to learn to be optimists by thinking about their reactions to adversity in a new way. The resulting optimism—one that grew from pessimism—is a learned optimism. The optimist's outlook on failure can thus be summarized as "What happened was an unlucky situation (not personal), and really just a setback (not permanent) for this one, of many, goals (not pervasive)".
Other differences exist between pessimists and optimists in terms of explanatory style:
Permanence: Optimistic people believe bad events to be more temporary than permanent and bounce back quickly from failure, whereas others may take longer periods to recover or may never recover. They also believe good things happen for reasons that are permanent, rather than seeing the transient nature of positive events. Optimists point to specific temporary causes for negative events; pessimists point to permanent causes.
Pervasiveness: Optimistic people compartmentalize helplessness, whereas pessimistic people assume that failure in one area of life means failure in life as a whole. Optimistic people also allow good events to brighten every area of their lives rather than just the particular area in which the event occurred.
Personalization: Optimists blame bad events on causes outside of themselves, whereas pessimists blame themselves for events that occur. Optimists are therefore generally more confident. Optimists also quickly internalize positive events while pessimists externalize them.

a reply to: FlyingFox

No youre not rambling, just stating one situation. Also keep in mind, the woman on the tape is not in the room. . By the way, have you heard of a complisult? Its one of those insults you and your friends call one another like, "youre a damn fool" but its only 70% serious. So okay then I would be kind of a jacka55. And im not afraid if anyone called me a fool if I was acting up or whatnot. And Im not sure how much of that is analyzed, you know? Or how much "bravado" as you put it is not just f@#$ing around. A previous poster had it right about momentum. We're having a "conversation" about "confidence" when it comes to whether women like it, and Im just being a jacka55 because I forgot she existed and started acting immature. Im expecting someone to say something equally as bad. I know.

a reply to: FlyingFox

Analytics models don't predict people playing devils advocate. its virtually impossible if one goes by the idea people always just say what they mean. Models can't predict "half serious" and "only under certain circumstances" or "70%"

originally posted by: breakingbs
a reply to: FlyingFox

No youre not rambling, just stating one situation. Also keep in mind, the woman on the tape is not in the room.

. By the way, have you heard of a complisult? Its one of those insults you and your friends call one another like, "youre a damn fool" but its only 70% serious. So okay then I would be kind of a jacka55. And im not afraid if anyone called me a fool if I was acting up or whatnot. And Im not sure how much of that is analyzed, you know? Or how much "bravado" as you put it is not just f@#$ing around. A previous poster had it right about momentum. We're having a "conversation" about "confidence" when it comes to whether women like it, and Im just being a jacka55 because I forgot she existed and started acting immature. Im expecting someone to say something equally as bad. I know.

But, going back to what Rukia said, I agree that true confidence is about being comfortable with who you are, and being honest with yourself, wouldn't you prefer women to appreciate you warts and all, and if you're a jackass, perhaps you want the company of someone who also can be a jackass when the occasion demands it?

We all have some form of "front", experience will teach us who to front to, and who to open the door to, and when to close it and lock it tight. If you walk into a potential relationship with a front, how long can you maintain that before it cracks and you have to keep your life compartmentalised?

a reply to: Anaana

We all have some form of "front", experience will teach us who to front to, and who to open the door to, and when to close it and lock it tight. If you walk into a potential relationship with a front, how long can you maintain that before it cracks and you have to keep your life compartmentalised?

You probably can't maintain that "front" forever. But the fact is, women 'are' attracted to that so called "front" and will hang around for as long as you can hold on to it, even if deep down they know its BS.

Its evolution at work, they're all subconsciously looking for someone who can maintain that 'perception' of power and control over others.

I didn't read the whole thread up to this point and I may be out of synch with the evolution of the discussion,

but I just have the urge to respond to the OP.

I am in agreement with the video. I have had countless discussions here on this subject, where I have asserted the same thing- it can look like all women are attracted to wealth, because that catches their eye, but ultimately wealth is one possible indicator of personal power and will, that's all.
If one gets close and it turns out the man with success and wealth does not have the confidence, they lose all attraction.

Confidence is not asserting possession of truth. It confidence in ones capability to learn, and experience.

It is being willing to step out and try new things with the attitude- no, I do not know for sure what will happen, but I am sure that whatever happens, my mental, emotional, and physical capabilities will allow me to adapt, learn and overcome all challenges, one way or another.

It is also an ability to focus ones attention in a very controlled and concentrated way on a goal.

My husband had no money, no job, when I met him. He had set out to travel and discover the world without dragging anything along. I found that courageous and confident. No matter he set his mind on doing, he was driven to do so, no matter what challenges he came across in the road, and I loved that.
I found that extremely seductive, and left with him even without any material security- I was sure that with the personality he had, we'd be able to overcome anything.
We did, and I was right.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

You probably can't maintain that "front" forever. But the fact is, women 'are' attracted to that so called "front" and will hang around for as long as you can hold on to it, even if deep down they know its BS.

Its evolution at work, they're all subconsciously looking for someone who can maintain that 'perception' of power and control over others.

Possibly, but once you've been there done that, seen what happens when the front slips, and have the scars to prove it, you tend to know better.

a reply to: Anaana

Nope. I don't expect women to be "like" me or be part of a "tag team" where we dress alike because I don't need conversation to be interested although it helps in the initial phases. I'm not establishing "similarity" to me the way I exist now like its some kind of capsule, I'm establishing "interest." And "interest" happens 99 times out of 100, "sticking around" happens 80, "not being able to let go" or what I call getting owned...1 in...I don't know like 1000. And it has to do with something she has in her understanding of herself and that's it. I've seen glimpses of an idea that wow this actually exists :!/ $@#?? before my objective and confused scientific curiosity at its floating pattern got yanked three seconds later. None of this has anything to do with me wanting it to happen, confidence, lack of confidence, acquiring it, or being "like" the one who owns me, and slaps me around like a little-ahhh, god, did i SAY that...??? I get distracted. All of this is just a sign of having none of my activities arranged around domesticity. My friends and I actually make fun of turning the hall closet into a lightshow. Because its there. Not because I'll be interested 50 years later, ?:/?? Ill hang the trash on the door if I have to. A girl might very well walk into my place and go, in a word, "what IS this?" Girls trying to be like me to bond for a relationship that isn't a 1 nite tripper get put on ig. :/ And I'm not even talking about 'sex.'

a reply to: breakingbs

Anyway, if my attempts to have fun with or without women jus break down in 1000 conversational attempts of subtle shading or misportrayal and endless sitting around arguing *all over competing over a fictitious woman or the "idea" of one being there* i'm just going to give up, because its not what im even thinking about most of the time. Even here. You guys, mates, whatever u can have her geez just slap me around when I act like a j.o. and we can get back to business is all im sayin. Alpha, beta, zeta, establishing who gets this invisible idea of a person i know nothing about and is like 50000 others with clever words whateverman im busy an not even doing that. If youre an intellectual guy good for you, take her. Girls if youre attracted, I know you are. Every single one of them are, now if youll excuse me.-

I think there is much evidence to suggest an ironic inverse correlation between confidence and competence. Very accomplished people doubt their own abilities so frequently that psychologists coined a term for it: "Imposter Syndrome." Albert Einstein reportedly said towards the end of his days "the exaggerated esteem in which my lifework is held makes me very ill at ease. I feel compelled to think of myself as an involuntary swindler." Meanwhile, the Dunning-Kruger effect describes the phenomenon whereby the least qualified very frequently overestimate their own abilities. I like to think of this as being part of the reason why we often intuit that we want people with the most self-doubt in the positions of greatest responsibility. Someone who is eager to run around with a gun and a badge certain that they will know what to do is probably the last person you want on the streets as a cop.

a reply to: JohnnyElohim

I think there's something off here.

Self-worth has nothing to do with being confident about knowing how to do something. I can know how to do something and I can know that I can do it fairly well, at that, but still feel insecure and have low self-worth in the process because I don't add value to myself or define myself by what I can do and etc. I think I try to give myself worth and value via the things that I do but I fail miserably.

But still, the ability to do something efficiently and effectively does breed a certain specific confidence in my personal experience. At the very least there's a certain flow and peace that happens when you're working on something that you know you can do fairly well and that's maybe what I'm confusing as confidence? If I'm wrong about that then I have no idea what confidence is.

Outside of that I know what you mean, there's a Michelangelo Buonarroti quote that goes, "if you knew how much work went into it, you wouldn't call it genius." And that's something else that I really relate to, but once again it doesn't have anything to do with confidence or competence. I often feel unworthy of praise and I experience unease about it as well. Just the other day I told someone that I feel like I am "tricking" people into being impressed, and that sounds like what you touched base on and it also has something to do with the Michelangelo quote. Also, I think there's a certain alienation that happens when people praise you; they look at you like you're an alien... something not like them, and that separation in itself is unsettling and can even feel dangerous.

a reply to: breakingbs

Calm down Sweetpea, I wasn't suggesting a hook up with a clone of yourself, or anyone else for that matter. At least we know what your greatest fear is.



Immaturity is all part and parcel of the territory that you're in, which is youth I am guessing??? Either way, I misunderstood what you were saying in the previous post of your's that I replied to, and hence, you have further misunderstood me. No worries, and apologies for causing you any undue anxiety.

a reply to: JohnnyElohim

Well...Einstein understood the overall mutability and uncertainty of reality, as soon as he provided a perspective from which to look, that those views would open, newer and better perspectives. Knowing that you are to be an integral part of the flux between ideas and reality is both humbling and exhilarating, no doubt. Confidence, in your own ability to navigate into the impossible and return, reasonably, in tact, takes courage and a confidence in your own ability to keep perservering. How many people of genius have run themselves into the ground in pursuit of "what is it" and upon finding the what, on struggling to explain it, or demonstrate it to others? Lots.

I doubt that Einstein would've got a second date with the lady in the video, not really driven by the material. Bless his hole-ridden cotton socks.

originally posted by: geezlouise
a reply to: JohnnyElohim

I think there's something off here.

Self-worth has nothing to do with being confident about knowing how to do something. I can know how to do something and I can know that I can do it fairly well, at that, but still feel insecure and have low self-worth in the process because I don't add value to myself or define myself by what I can do and etc. I think I try to give myself worth and value via the things that I do but I fail miserably.

But still, the ability to do something efficiently and effectively does breed a certain specific confidence in my personal experience. At the very least there's a certain flow and peace that happens when you're working on something that you know you can do fairly well and that's maybe what I'm confusing as confidence? If I'm wrong about that then I have no idea what confidence is.

Outside of that I know what you mean, there's a Michelangelo Buonarroti quote that goes, "if you knew how much work went into it, you wouldn't call it genius." And that's something else that I really relate to, but once again it doesn't have anything to do with confidence or competence. I often feel unworthy of praise and I experience unease about it as well. Just the other day I told someone that I feel like I am "tricking" people into being impressed, and that sounds like what you touched base on and it also has something to do with the Michelangelo quote. Also, I think there's a certain alienation that happens when people praise you; they look at you like you're an alien... something not like them, and that separation in itself is unsettling and can even feel dangerous.

I think there are some cases where a natural confidence that stems from experience is seen as just that, and that most humans find that quality attractive when observed in other humans. But I think in a social context, the expression of confidence often fails to correlate meaningfully with ability. It is a poor predictor. Let's say I've played violin for two decades. If you watch me in my element, you can see the calm confidence I exude playing pieces I've practiced a thousand times. Stand me up in a room of people who purport to be good with a violin and I might demure, underestimating my own abilities against the number. The grueling effort required to acquire true expertise can contribute to an overarching humility.

I might suppose that people who exhibit conspicuous confidence in their own abilities are attractive evolutionarily because they are average. One can more easily predict the upper and lower boundaries of a specimen's capabilities when they exhibit a certain confidence. They are unlikely to be better than X or worse than Y. The outlier specimens are dangerous to bet on. Easy to under or over estimate, and by a larger margin.

originally posted by: Anaana
a reply to: JohnnyElohim

Well...Einstein understood the overall mutability and uncertainty of reality, as soon as he provided a perspective from which to look, that those views would open, newer and better perspectives. Knowing that you are to be an integral part of the flux between ideas and reality is both humbling and exhilarating, no doubt. Confidence, in your own ability to navigate into the impossible and return, reasonably, in tact, takes courage and a confidence in your own ability to keep perservering. How many people of genius have run themselves into the ground in pursuit of "what is it" and upon finding the what, on struggling to explain it, or demonstrate it to others? Lots.

I doubt that Einstein would've got a second date with the lady in the video, not really driven by the material. Bless his hole-ridden cotton socks.

I hear you. It occurs to me that everyone in this thread probably has a different meaning in mind when they say "confidence."

originally posted by: JohnnyElohim
The grueling effort required to acquire true expertise can contribute to an overarching humility.

I always used to love a story Debbie Reynolds used to tell about Fred Astaire rehearsing. Fred knew that the magic of perfection he so confidently presented was the result of blood, sweat and tears, but that was between him and the locked sound stage.

Oh...I've managed to find it...gotta love youtube.



Nothing worth having comes easy.