Downed Russian SU-24 black box first information

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: sosobad

no it will probably be found missing, or to corrupted to read.

And there will be two independent experts from Britain and China to verify it if it does end up being too damaged, what's so hard to understand about that?

And if the evidence reveals criminal behaviour on the part of Turks then the remedy via International Courts are available to Russia , case closed , move on .

Not that hard to act within the Law if Putin wants to , just follow procedure .

Beating the war drums is not going to be more beneficial that's why we have Putin's show of blackbox with international experts .

Russia claims that this was a hostile act while Turks maintain that there was a violation and this was an act of self defence related to an prior incident of downed Turkish jet in Syria.

Putin just wants to appoint himself as the Judge , Jury and the Executioner which mocks the International Treaties which Russia has signed to adhere certain protocols .

9 out of 10 Russians said they will go back to holidaying in Turkey .

Businesses around Russia are suffering because of the ambargo Russia has placed on Turkish goods.

Some items in Russian markets have jumped % 400 and some items are not available at all .

Russian auto manufacturing has come to a halt and the Russian Businessman are getting upset every day .

These new realities of Russia putting an ambargo on a vital trading partner is a knee jerk reaction which could have only came from a brain of an ex KGB / FSB man himself ; Putin .

In other words the worldy chess player Putin's moves are restricted by his own make up , his own essence .


Back in 1996 , Greeks shot down a Turkish jet in the Aegean and killed a pilot .

here he is ;

Lt Commander Nail Erdogan whose Greek killer has admitted that he shot him down without provocation.




Here his daughter still seeking justice for his murdered father ;





and here is a more murdered Turkish pilots from a recent event in 2012 over Syria ;

Lt Pilot Teğmen Hasan Hüseyin Aksoy ve Lt Pilot Yüzbaşı Gökhan Ertan




It seems to me when Turkish jets shot down by Greece and Syria [ Russian Allies both ] doesn't cause the same outrage in some people .

This is a double standart and ignorance imho .


Whatever the Russian blackbox reveals it is irrelevant when one is not ignorant of the BIG picture .

Russia might be big alright but believe in me , the picture they are holding is not the Biggest Picture that there is .

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: sosobad

no it will probably be found missing, or to corrupted to read.

And there will be two independent experts from Britain and China to verify it if it does end up being too damaged, what's so hard to understand about that?

And if the evidence reveals criminal behaviour on the part of Turks then the remedy via International Courts are available to Russia , case closed , move on .

Not that hard to act within the Law if Putin wants to , just follow procedure .

Beating the war drums is not going to be more beneficial that's why we have Putin's show of blackbox with international experts .

Russia claims that this was a hostile act while Turks maintain that there was a violation and this was an act of self defence related to an prior incident of downed Turkish jet in Syria.

Putin just wants to appoint himself as the Judge , Jury and the Executioner which mocks the International Treaties which Russia has signed to adhere certain protocols .

9 out of 10 Russians said they will go back to holidaying in Turkey .

Businesses around Russia are suffering because of the ambargo Russia has placed on Turkish goods.

Some items in Russian markets have jumped % 400 and some items are not available at all .

Russian auto manufacturing has come to a halt and the Russian Businessman are getting upset every day .

These new realities of Russia putting an ambargo on a vital trading partner is a knee jerk reaction which could have only came from a brain of an ex KGB / FSB man himself ; Putin .

In other words the worldy chess player Putin's moves are restricted by his own make up , his own essence .


Back in 1996 , Greeks shot down a Turkish jet in the Aegean and killed a pilot .

here he is ;

Lt Commander Nail Erdogan whose Greek killer has admitted that he shot him down without provocation.

Here his daughter still seeking justice for his murdered father ;

and here is a more murdered Turkish pilots from a recent event in 2012 over Syria ;

Lt Pilot Teğmen Hasan Hüseyin Aksoy ve Lt Pilot Yüzbaşı Gökhan Ertan

It seems to me when Turkish jets shot down by Greece and Syria [ Russian Allies both ] doesn't cause the same outrage in some people .

This is a double standart and ignorance imho .


Whatever the Russian blackbox reveals it is irrelevant when one is not ignorant of the BIG picture .

Russia might be big alright but believe in me , the picture they are holding is not the Biggest Picture that there is .

The outrage for me is how the Turkish government consistently acts under Erdogan. When you look at the moves he has made to his own public (also economically setting up a huge disaster) there is plenty of reason to question this action.

Your examples have absolutely no point in this thread other than to say Turkish pilots got shot in a historical context.

Also as far as I know there is very little "outrage" over this. A lot of sensible people are uneasy yeah, two hot headed tyrants are trying to start WW3.

a reply to: 23432

I suggest if you have grievances about those shootdowns you respectfully make a thread about it, this is about the SU-24s black box.

All I have posted is that there is 2 independent experts also evaluating the evidence so it is being done correctly. And if it turns out either side are lying the truth will come out.

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: 23432

I suggest if you have grievances about those shootdowns you respectfully make a thread about it, this is about the SU-24s black box.

All I have posted is that there is 2 independent experts also evaluating the evidence so it is being done correctly. And if it turns out either side are lying the truth will come out.

What's amusing is most people expect Putin is lying so the details being lost will be no big deal. If Erdogan is caught lying than that's a huge problem. Who knows how he would react. Already he has taken the country several steps backwards towards censorship and fascism. Who knows what he will do if the west backs out and his fake building boom busts. People think this is hurting Russia? Turkey has far more to loose which makes me think Erdogan has become a dangerous psychopath. To gamble the way he has is wreckless ego.

a reply to: elementalgrove

It's worse, that crap obviously never stopped.

Germany shocked by secret service link to rightwing terror cell



And there are other indicators, remember Mevlüt Kar?

a reply to: Whereismypassword

I read that there are 2 Americans that are there as well.
tass.ru...

US citizens will also take part in the investigation of the incident. "The president and vice president of the international society of investigating air accidents, US citizens Del Gandio and Ron Schleed, are taking part in this effort," Dronov said.

originally posted by: luthier

We are getting played by Turkey and everyone defending them should know this. Their government is tyranical by far the worst since WW2

I live in Turkey and let me inform you how wrong you are .

Reality is the exact opposite ; the current government is the best at liberating massess of Kurds in Turkey and ending oppression on the faithfull by military .

By their actions , Turkish Government denies your assertion.

Tyrannical to those vampire pirates who suck the Turkish economy and people's wealth , absoulutely and ruthlessly .

Tyrannical to population in general ?

Definetely not , in fact here is how tolerant things under the so called " Islamic " government of Turkey ;

Gay & Lesbian Pride - Istanbul .




I also am a British and lived in West about 3 decades .

In my reality , what you believe about current Turkish government is utterly incorrect .

a reply to: 23432

By their actions , Turkish Government denies your assertion.

With bomb-runs on Kurdish people and various attacks on the free press during Imperator Erdogans campaign.

Decent democracy, of course. Not.

Hey Belial, how were the oil-trades going today?

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: luthier

We are getting played by Turkey and everyone defending them should know this. Their government is tyranical by far the worst since WW2

I live in Turkey and let me inform you how wrong you are .

Reality is the exact opposite ; the current government is the best at liberating massess of Kurds in Turkey and ending oppression on the faithfull by military .

By their actions , Turkish Government denies your assertion.

Tyrannical to those vampire pirates who suck the Turkish economy and people's wealth , absoulutely and ruthlessly .

Tyrannical to population in general ?

Definetely not , in fact here is how tolerant things under the so called " Islamic " government of Turkey ;

Gay & Lesbian Pride - Istanbul .

I also am a British and lived in West about 3 decades .

In my reality , what you believe about current Turkish government is utterly incorrect .

Thats real nice. I used to travel to Turkey very regularly for sound engineering festivals. I can tell you the Turkish club owners and promoter friends I have completely disagree with you.

Also none of what you said is true. Erdogan is in fact heading towards tyranny. Were you at the protests last year? That was the last time I was in Turkey. I wasn't anywhere near the protest but a sure didn't want to come back after. Several of my Turkish friends have had trouble with their Night Clubs one being specifically because it was a gay club from this administration

www.theguardian.com...

a reply to: sosobad

This is off topic but wanted to throw it at you for a chuckle ... His next line will be "well what difference does it make now " lol

Dear friends, let's wait a bit. It is supposed that the results will be shown on Monday.

Theoretically, there are three possible conclusions.

1. It will be proved that the plane violated airspace. In that case Turkey is right according to international law (in spite of the fact that from the point of view of common sense there was no need in such actions: why didn't they just escort the unarmed plane out of Turkish airspace?). Anyway, Russia will have to admit the rightness of Turkey (at least, from the point of view of the legislation).
2. It will be proved that the plane did not violate airspace. Then Russia should call the UN Security Council.
3. It will become clear that it isn't enough data of a flight recorder.

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: 23432

I suggest if you have grievances about those shootdowns you respectfully make a thread about it, this is about the SU-24s black box.

All I have posted is that there is 2 independent experts also evaluating the evidence so it is being done correctly. And if it turns out either side are lying the truth will come out.

Narrow narrative , eh ?

Suggestion duly noted , thanks .

Excuse me for bringing more light in to the issue you want to discuss but blackbox is apart plane , plane is the part of an army , armyis the part of a country , so on and so forth , I take it you know where I am going with this .
One of the ways to deny ignorance is to disclose more information about the subject matter being discussed .

At least the readers of this thread are now aware that this blackbox is NOT an isolated incident and it should be read within the context , like everything else in life .

The total data units supposed to hold 25 hours of uncompressed flight information and voice data recordings.

Out of 8 units , 3 are destroyed and 5 remain in tact , my guess is - not surprisingly - data will point out that Turks lying .

What is yours ?

Are you inclined to believe Putin more ?

Most importantly , do you think Putin is ignorant of the remedies available to himself via the international court of justice ?

originally posted by: JedemDasSeine
Dear friends, let's wait a bit. It is supposed that the results will be shown on Monday.

Theoretically, there are three possible conclusions.

1. It will be proved that the plane violated airspace. In that case Turkey is right according to international law (in spite of the fact that from the point of view of common sense there was no need in such actions: why didn't they just escort the unarmed plane out of Turkish airspace?). Anyway, Russia will have to admit the rightness of Turkey (at least, from the point of view of the legislation).
2. It will be proved that the plane did not violate airspace. Then Russia should call the UN Security Council.
3. It will become clear that it isn't enough data of a flight recorder.

Because last time they tried to escort an unidentified plane from Syria criss crossing into Turkey , Turks sent an UNARMED plane to do the job and the plane got shot down by Russian weaponary , killing 2 pilots .

I see that you were ignorant of this fact , hopefully you now can make more sense of what Turks did and why they did it .

a reply to: 23432

Um so under your reasoning,I am to take it that if Mexico shoots down an American plane,then its okay for the US to shoot down a Canadian one? wth kind of reasoning is that? Just because someone is your ally,does not make you responsible for their actions. Unless you assured other partners of controlling them. WHICH THE US DID IN SYRIA. We were supposed to be letting all our ' allies' know who was flying where and at what time. Mistakes can be made,but guess what you do when one is made? You call up that countries leader and say "Oh my gosh! We accidentally shot your plane down.So so sorry about that" You don't go call NATO and lay out plans with them for 8 hours. Get real.

Turkey is and HAS been a huge violator of boundaries of its neighbors. Whine all you want about it,but Turkey has no complaints when it comes to others in its airspace. Make up my mind on this one,Turkey either has
1. Crappy GPS
2.Crappy pilots
or
3. a Crappy president
So which is it?

Yeah yeah we get it with you. Your all rah rah sis boom bah over Turkey.Great. No place like home,okay. But I am not going to believe my country's nonsense. So I sure am NOT going to believe your country's nonsense either..

Show sad pictures all you want,this is about the black box from the plane and what may be in it. Putin has not 'appointed' himself anything at all.He has done EXACTLY what any president worth his weight would have done for his country over this. All this stuff about Russia's economy? Pics or it didn't happen pal.

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: 23432

I suggest if you have grievances about those shootdowns you respectfully make a thread about it, this is about the SU-24s black box.

All I have posted is that there is 2 independent experts also evaluating the evidence so it is being done correctly. And if it turns out either side are lying the truth will come out.

Narrow narrative , eh ?

Suggestion duly noted , thanks .

Excuse me for bringing more light in to the issue you want to discuss but blackbox is apart plane , plane is the part of an army , armyis the part of a country , so on and so forth , I take it you know where I am going with this .
One of the ways to deny ignorance is to disclose more information about the subject matter being discussed .

At least the readers of this thread are now aware that this blackbox is NOT an isolated incident and it should be read within the context , like everything else in life .

The total data units supposed to hold 25 hours of uncompressed flight information and voice data recordings.

Out of 8 units , 3 are destroyed and 5 remain in tact , my guess is - not surprisingly - data will point out that Turks lying .

What is yours ?

Are you inclined to believe Putin more ?

Most importantly , do you think Putin is ignorant of the remedies available to himself via the international court of justice ?

It isn't a related subject and circumstances are no where near the same. Besides two wrongs don't make a right. You don't have to defend Putin to know Erdogan was wrong.
www.realclearpolitics.com...
www.hrw.org...
m.therightscoop.com...


Personally I don't believe either Putin or Erdogan. I do KNOW it was not smart to shoot a Russian jet down.

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: 23432

By their actions , Turkish Government denies your assertion.

With bomb-runs on Kurdish people and various attacks on the free press during Imperator Erdogans campaign.

Decent democracy, of course. Not.

Hey Belial, how were the oil-trades going today?

I think the 170 Kurdish MP's and several Kurdish Ministers actually paint a more realistic picture of political scenery in Turkey .
Governing party has most of the Kurdish vote and that is for real ; so you are claming that these Kurdish politicians are dropping bombs on Kurds ?
Do you realise how utterly impossible task that is ?

Bilal doesn't trade in oil , he owns 3 ships .

I am not an Erdogan supporter but for crying out loud there is so much disinfo about Turks & Erdogan ; I can't believe that people buy this nonsense.

a reply to: 23432

Yeah, and the proud Ottoman Airforce never violated anyones airspace in the first place. Take Greece for example.

The allegation comes a couple of days after Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras accused Turkey of violating Greece's airspace, and creating an 'outrageous' and 'unbelievable' situation over the Aegean Sea.

www.airforce-technology.com...

I like this double-standart very much, kinda funny in a Janitshar_ish way. Think we'll see some more brain gymnastics coming up, I'm actually looking forward to that.

disinfo

Well, you know the trade and we're far OT. Put up or shut up maybe?

a reply to: 23432

Out of 8 units , 3 are destroyed and 5 remain in tact , my guess is - not surprisingly - data will point out that Turks lying .

There is a big difference between Damaged and Destroyed ....Where is your source for the destroyed ?

a reply to: 23432
I wish they shot your aicrafts more often, with all these thousands of violations your country does in an annual bases, in my country.

And you should inform your pilots/military next time to use their brain, before they violate and/or invade someone else country. Our pilots acted heroically that day.

a reply to: 23432

Bilal doesn't trade in oil , he owns 3 ships .

My brother got a few years in jail ,not for robbing the bank but for driving the get away car .:>)