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Downed Russian SU-24 black box first information

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posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 10:09 AM
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originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: PublicOpinion
a reply to: 23432




By their actions , Turkish Government denies your assertion.


With bomb-runs on Kurdish people and various attacks on the free press during Imperator Erdogans campaign.

Decent democracy, of course. Not.

Hey Belial, how were the oil-trades going today?



I think the 170 Kurdish MP's and several Kurdish Ministers actually paint a more realistic picture of political scenery in Turkey .
Governing party has most of the Kurdish vote and that is for real ; so you are claming that these Kurdish politicians are dropping bombs on Kurds ?
Do you realise how utterly impossible task that is ?

Bilal doesn't trade in oil , he owns 3 ships .

I am not an Erdogan supporter but for crying out loud there is so much disinfo about Turks & Erdogan ; I can't believe that people buy this nonsense.



Do you have any understanding of the history of Kurdish and Muslim Turkish relations? Do you not know they get raided in Turkey all the time for supposed pkk connections.

Dude all you have to do is a little research by human rights and red cross organizations. They treat the casualties and are not connected to the gov the same way as the press in Turkey.




posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 10:11 AM
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originally posted by: luthier

Thats real nice. I used to travel to Turkey very regularly for sound engineering festivals. I can tell you the Turkish club owners and promoter friends I have completely disagree with you.

Also none of what you said is true. Erdogan is in fact heading towards tyranny. Were you at the protests last year? That was the last time I was in Turkey. I wasn't anywhere near the protest but a sure didn't want to come back after. Several of my Turkish friends have had trouble with their Night Clubs one being specifically because it was a gay club from this administration

www.theguardian.com...


Ironically , most Turkish Club owners are Kurds who themselves are in a minority within the larger Kurdish community.

In fact most of the Night Club & Show Business is run by Kurds in Turkey so the opinion you have formed is naturally going to reflect their perceptions I guess .

Protests in Istanbul was righteous at first but on the 3rd day the hijackers overtook the event and by the end the local shopkeepers were the ones who were asking the protestors to leave.

Democracy in Turkey malfunctions like it does everywhere else .

I couldn't find one thing that I could do in UK / USA that I couldn't do in Turkey .

Perhaps you found one thing or two ?

It would be nice to know if you did .



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 10:12 AM
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a reply to: Ploutonas

lol.

Screw our 'German' neolib auterity BS by the way. Ever read this article?
www.theguardian.com...

Sorry for the OT in case you're not from Greece.





posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 10:13 AM
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originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: luthier

Thats real nice. I used to travel to Turkey very regularly for sound engineering festivals. I can tell you the Turkish club owners and promoter friends I have completely disagree with you.

Also none of what you said is true. Erdogan is in fact heading towards tyranny. Were you at the protests last year? That was the last time I was in Turkey. I wasn't anywhere near the protest but a sure didn't want to come back after. Several of my Turkish friends have had trouble with their Night Clubs one being specifically because it was a gay club from this administration

www.theguardian.com...


Ironically , most Turkish Club owners are Kurds who themselves are in a minority within the larger Kurdish community.

In fact most of the Night Club & Show Business is run by Kurds in Turkey so the opinion you have formed is naturally going to reflect their perceptions I guess .

Protests in Istanbul was righteous at first but on the 3rd day the hijackers overtook the event and by the end the local shopkeepers were the ones who were asking the protestors to leave.

Democracy in Turkey malfunctions like it does everywhere else .

I couldn't find one thing that I could do in UK / USA that I couldn't do in Turkey .

Perhaps you found one thing or two ?

It would be nice to know if you did .


www.ibtimes.com...

www.cnn.com...

I can list a lot of people who have been jailed that disagree with you on the whole democracy thing.
edit on 18-12-2015 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 10:16 AM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: 23432




Bilal doesn't trade in oil , he owns 3 ships .
My brother got a few years in jail ,not for robbing the bank but for driving the get away car .:>)


Eagerly waiting for the guilty to go down ; just waiting for a Court ruling before lynch mobbing the guy .

Call me prudent if you like but I would like to accused to be judged bu his/her peers in the Court of Law first and if proven guilty , he/she can go down the gallows , why would I care ?



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 10:20 AM
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a reply to: 23432

3 of the cards are damaged not destroyed, they are using specialist equipment to try and retrieve the data. To be honest I will wait for the data. Saying that I believe Turkey was wrong to shoot down the plane of a very important trading partner for a 17 second violation. That alone is grounds to say Turkey is not being 100% truthful in this.



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 10:21 AM
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originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: luthier

Thats real nice. I used to travel to Turkey very regularly for sound engineering festivals. I can tell you the Turkish club owners and promoter friends I have completely disagree with you.

Also none of what you said is true. Erdogan is in fact heading towards tyranny. Were you at the protests last year? That was the last time I was in Turkey. I wasn't anywhere near the protest but a sure didn't want to come back after. Several of my Turkish friends have had trouble with their Night Clubs one being specifically because it was a gay club from this administration

www.theguardian.com...


Ironically , most Turkish Club owners are Kurds who themselves are in a minority within the larger Kurdish community.

In fact most of the Night Club & Show Business is run by Kurds in Turkey so the opinion you have formed is naturally going to reflect their perceptions I guess .

Protests in Istanbul was righteous at first but on the 3rd day the hijackers overtook the event and by the end the local shopkeepers were the ones who were asking the protestors to leave.

Democracy in Turkey malfunctions like it does everywhere else .

I couldn't find one thing that I could do in UK / USA that I couldn't do in Turkey .

Perhaps you found one thing or two ?

It would be nice to know if you did .


www.ibtimes.com...


Gulen movement ?

OK.

During the Gezi Protests , the plan was to revolt against Erdogan & bring Gulen as a new leader of Turkey who was groomed in Pensilvenya by CIA .

Erdogan was backed by population and CIA's operation to replace him got blown on their faces .

Check Sibel Edmonds on youtube , she explains it better .

Suffice to say those whom you call " journalists " are not charged for putting pen to paper .



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 10:25 AM
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originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: 23432




Bilal doesn't trade in oil , he owns 3 ships .
My brother got a few years in jail ,not for robbing the bank but for driving the get away car .:>)


Eagerly waiting for the guilty to go down ; just waiting for a Court ruling before lynch mobbing the guy .

Call me prudent if you like but I would like to accused to be judged bu his/her peers in the Court of Law first and if proven guilty , he/she can go down the gallows , why would I care ?


Yeah Turkey does it all the time they just rearrange the constitution and find ways to jail any opposition to Erdogan.

Russia is doing what you say. This why the public unveiling. This will lead to either an investigation or a drop of the issue by the west.

Hey Russia may not be in the right but it isn't an a or b answer. You still don't shoot people down who are not a threat.

If someone jumps my fence I run and get my gun and shoot him in my neighbors yard would you defend me? I sure hope so because it's not much different. Let's not forget this was a fraction of time even the Turks show on their radar. I seriously doubt the Russians sat in that little finger doing barrel rolls for 5 minutes but it is possible.



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 10:27 AM
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originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: 23432

3 of the cards are damaged not destroyed, they are using specialist equipment to try and retrieve the data. To be honest I will wait for the data. Saying that I believe Turkey was wrong to shoot down the plane of a very important trading partner for a 17 second violation. That alone is grounds to say Turkey is not being 100% truthful in this.


OK thank you for the response but I see you haven't factored in the murdered innocent Turkmen into your narrative neither you have the scenario of Turks being asked to bring it down by US .

It is not about the truth but what you can prove in the Court of Law .

Personally I think Turks exhausted all the back channels & diplomatic channels and even drawn a line on the sand and announced that they would shoot ANY plane down .

No Court would find Turks of any wrong doing in this matter ; Letter of the Law says that the Turks were within their right to shoot it down .
Spirit of the Law says that it is better to show mercy and not shoot it down .

This is one such case .



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 10:30 AM
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originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: luthier

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: luthier

Thats real nice. I used to travel to Turkey very regularly for sound engineering festivals. I can tell you the Turkish club owners and promoter friends I have completely disagree with you.

Also none of what you said is true. Erdogan is in fact heading towards tyranny. Were you at the protests last year? That was the last time I was in Turkey. I wasn't anywhere near the protest but a sure didn't want to come back after. Several of my Turkish friends have had trouble with their Night Clubs one being specifically because it was a gay club from this administration

www.theguardian.com...


Ironically , most Turkish Club owners are Kurds who themselves are in a minority within the larger Kurdish community.

In fact most of the Night Club & Show Business is run by Kurds in Turkey so the opinion you have formed is naturally going to reflect their perceptions I guess .

Protests in Istanbul was righteous at first but on the 3rd day the hijackers overtook the event and by the end the local shopkeepers were the ones who were asking the protestors to leave.

Democracy in Turkey malfunctions like it does everywhere else .

I couldn't find one thing that I could do in UK / USA that I couldn't do in Turkey .

Perhaps you found one thing or two ?

It would be nice to know if you did .


www.ibtimes.com...


Gulen movement ?

OK.

During the Gezi Protests , the plan was to revolt against Erdogan & bring Gulen as a new leader of Turkey who was groomed in Pensilvenya by CIA .

Erdogan was backed by population and CIA's operation to replace him got blown on their faces .

Check Sibel Edmonds on youtube , she explains it better .

Suffice to say those whom you call " journalists " are not charged for putting pen to paper .


Thats a nice narrative wonder who putbit out there?
europeanjournalists.org...

Just do a little research use any non gov source. Erdogan has a lot of disregard for international law has been charged and ignored charges and is under very serious investigations.

You can't prove conspiracies unless you have a real smoking gun. It's like argueing metaphysics.

The facts are Erdogan puts journalists away for putting pen to paper. He can call them whatever. That example was one of many



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 10:32 AM
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originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: 23432

3 of the cards are damaged not destroyed, they are using specialist equipment to try and retrieve the data. To be honest I will wait for the data. Saying that I believe Turkey was wrong to shoot down the plane of a very important trading partner for a 17 second violation. That alone is grounds to say Turkey is not being 100% truthful in this.


OK thank you for the response but I see you haven't factored in the murdered innocent Turkmen into your narrative neither you have the scenario of Turks being asked to bring it down by US .

It is not about the truth but what you can prove in the Court of Law .

Personally I think Turks exhausted all the back channels & diplomatic channels and even drawn a line on the sand and announced that they would shoot ANY plane down .

No Court would find Turks of any wrong doing in this matter ; Letter of the Law says that the Turks were within their right to shoot it down .
Spirit of the Law says that it is better to show mercy and not shoot it down .

This is one such case .


Sure just like I can't be charged for shooting a twelve year old breaking into my garrage. It doesn't make it right and it doesn't mean you defend such a dumb action



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 10:33 AM
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a reply to: 23432

If you have grievances about the Turkmen dying I suggest you respectfully make a thread about it. This is about the black box of the SU-24.

The black box may show that the Turks are indeed guilty and maybe it will clear them as innocent we will have to wait and see.



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 10:38 AM
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a reply to: 23432

Sometime the wheels of justice turn very slow but other times they seem to turn at break neck speed .


also it seems that Turkey is more then willing to take the money and run ....Problem is that they have no place to run to . Should we think of the Turks in this way or does the fault lie on the leader ?
We in Canada had a guy like yours and we dumped him in the last elections .
edit on 18-12-2015 by the2ofusr1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 10:43 AM
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a reply to: Ploutonas

So how does Dronov know that the flight recorder proves that the plane didn't violate Turkish airspace if the data hasn't been analyzed yet? Is he psychic?



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 10:43 AM
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originally posted by: luthier


Yeah Turkey does it all the time they just rearrange the constitution and find ways to jail any opposition to Erdogan.

uhm slight correction if I may ; the Constitution was written by a military committe following a coup .
All the parties who came to power since 1982 constitution was passed has used the same tricks that Erdogan is using now .
The problem is deeper then that . The Constitution needs a major re-write and eveyone in Turkey knows about it.
The " Opposition " has used the same Laws to jail Erdogan back in time ; so he uses the same Laws to jail his jailers .
That is how fcuk up the situation is ; it is not about exclusively Erdogan misusing his powers .



Russia is doing what you say. This why the public unveiling. This will lead to either an investigation or a drop of the issue by the west.

Russia and Putin may or may not go to Court over this issue ; and this issue doesn't warrant the response Putin is giving out .

Hey Russia may not be in the right but it isn't an a or b answer. You still don't shoot people down who are not a threat.
These pilots were murdering innocent Turks . Putin got told of this issue on various occasions thru different channels , including Erdogan himself to Putin's face at G20 meeting .
Erdogan asked Putin to stop bombing Turks who are no where near DAESH areas .
Putin has said you have got to treat us as guests and Erdogan replied " you need an invitation from us to be considered as guess and you have none " .
You do shoot people who are bombing innocent people and that is what Turks did .

I tell you what ; I bet you that the Putin really doesn't care about the bombing of Turkmens one way or the other . I bet that decision was delegated to a field commander who got paid extra monies to go bomb the Turkmens in the north .

If someone jumps my fence I run and get my gun and shoot him in my neighbors yard would you defend me? I sure hope so because it's not much different. Let's not forget this was a fraction of time even the Turks show on their radar. I seriously doubt the Russians sat in that little finger doing barrel rolls for 5 minutes but it is possible.


This plane was bombing the innocent people for days while Turks pleaded with Russians to stop it .

It is a safe bet to say that Turks were watching movements all the time from the beginning .

If someone was jumping the fence and shooting at your kids ; I would shoot him dead where ever on earth he goes to .

Pilots were on a bombing mission , killing innocent people . That is the main reason the moral high ground doesn't apply I am afraid .



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 10:51 AM
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a reply to: 23432




This plane was bombing the innocent people for days while Turks pleaded with Russians to stop it .
Are these the same people that put the vid out of them shooting at the pilots while they were parachuting ? the same people that used the TOW missile on the recovery helicopter ? ...for a peaceful kind of people they seem to sure have some heavy arms .



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 10:52 AM
link   

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: luthier


Yeah Turkey does it all the time they just rearrange the constitution and find ways to jail any opposition to Erdogan.

uhm slight correction if I may ; the Constitution was written by a military committe following a coup .
All the parties who came to power since 1982 constitution was passed has used the same tricks that Erdogan is using now .
The problem is deeper then that . The Constitution needs a major re-write and eveyone in Turkey knows about it.
The " Opposition " has used the same Laws to jail Erdogan back in time ; so he uses the same Laws to jail his jailers .
That is how fcuk up the situation is ; it is not about exclusively Erdogan misusing his powers .



Russia is doing what you say. This why the public unveiling. This will lead to either an investigation or a drop of the issue by the west.

Russia and Putin may or may not go to Court over this issue ; and this issue doesn't warrant the response Putin is giving out .

Hey Russia may not be in the right but it isn't an a or b answer. You still don't shoot people down who are not a threat.
These pilots were murdering innocent Turks . Putin got told of this issue on various occasions thru different channels , including Erdogan himself to Putin's face at G20 meeting .
Erdogan asked Putin to stop bombing Turks who are no where near DAESH areas .
Putin has said you have got to treat us as guests and Erdogan replied " you need an invitation from us to be considered as guess and you have none " .
You do shoot people who are bombing innocent people and that is what Turks did .

I tell you what ; I bet you that the Putin really doesn't care about the bombing of Turkmens one way or the other . I bet that decision was delegated to a field commander who got paid extra monies to go bomb the Turkmens in the north .

If someone jumps my fence I run and get my gun and shoot him in my neighbors yard would you defend me? I sure hope so because it's not much different. Let's not forget this was a fraction of time even the Turks show on their radar. I seriously doubt the Russians sat in that little finger doing barrel rolls for 5 minutes but it is possible.


This plane was bombing the innocent people for days while Turks pleaded with Russians to stop it .

It is a safe bet to say that Turks were watching movements all the time from the beginning .

If someone was jumping the fence and shooting at your kids ; I would shoot him dead where ever on earth he goes to .

Pilots were on a bombing mission , killing innocent people . That is the main reason the moral high ground doesn't apply I am afraid .


No.

You have no idea what the bombing was and why Turkey has people all over Syria. Do you have special intelligence and get briefings on what the real situation is?

You are assuming the tyranical president is telling the truth? You have to to believe what you are saying.

We have NO idea what is going on in the Syrian mountains. Strategically speaking that is where you go to hide and train being very difficult to always see in caves and valleys.

Russia has not been shooting Turkish pilots and the bombings are in Syria. They shouldn't be there. My assumption is Kerry taking a 180 to Russia in Syria is over this action by Turkey. I guarantee regardless of it being legal the US and NATO are pissed. If there is any proof with the box I would move back to the west. That fake building boom will be over.
edit on 18-12-2015 by luthier because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 10:53 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Ploutonas

So how does Dronov know that the flight recorder proves that the plane didn't violate Turkish airspace if the data hasn't been analyzed yet? Is he psychic?


All 3 sources in the OP are reporting on the same briefing. In that respect Ibtimes and bcc never said that Dronov said the evidence came from the black box, the third source did. In that regards is this a case of a source embelishing the story or was there something in the translation but they are all reporting on the same briefing. He didn't give these comments out separately.
edit on 18-12-2015 by sosobad because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 10:53 AM
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Dp
edit on 18-12-2015 by sosobad because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2015 @ 10:57 AM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
a reply to: 23432

Sometime the wheels of justice turn very slow but other times they seem to turn at break neck speed .


also it seems that Turkey is more then willing to take the money and run ....Problem is that they have no place to run to . Should we think of the Turks in this way or does the fault lie on the leader ?
We in Canada had a guy like yours and we dumped him in the last elections .


The MP Eren Erdem quote I like the most ;

There is a war between West and East , Turks choosen West and I am choosing East , he said .

If Iran and Turkey went to war then I would fight the Turks on the side of Iranians , he also said .

That should really give you the tolerance lever of Turkish Politics and it should also make you take a pinch of salt with everything Eren Erdem says .

So you are siding with Iran against West too ?

But you live in the West , don't you ?
edit on 18-12-2015 by 23432 because: (no reason given)



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