Can a man know what it's like to be a woman and know more than women about being a woman?

Even if you put biology aside for a minute, how can a man say they know what it is like to be a woman or know more about women than women do?

Have they ever been talked down to or had their opinions be discounted just for being female? Been treated with the attitude that a woman's place is in the kitchen making sammiches for them? Been objectified and judged because of their looks or body? Been subject to laws regarding the choices a woman is allowed to make about her own body? And how many men haven't taken advantage of certain aspects of male privilege or been part of some good o'l boy network that looks at women as weak, inferior or as second class citizens? Sure there are exceptions and differing situations but how often are men concerned about being raped or assaulted by someone physically superior or in greater numbers? The list could go on.

Granted, I may be a lot older than some of you here and from a time when sexism and misogyny was more blatant and obvious than it is in today's PC culture and my own attitudes toward men may be less than thinly disguised but men know more about women than women do? Yeah right. Add the biology back in and most of them are even more clueless.

Man sounds creepy, and you were right to not feel comfortable and say so!

To answer your question though, no, and it goes the opposite way too, just pretty stupid thing to say in my opinion.

a reply to: Freija Thank you for the well written post. There was a time in my life when I was hired as a barista by a man who only hired young women, because he felt that mostly men were coming in with money and we had a tip jar. I can't tell you how many times men expected me to laugh at jokes I didn't think were funny or men that came in expecting me to take kindly to any flirtations when I wasn't interested. I didn't ever make the most tips of all the young women, I can say that much.
I see this sort of thing with waitressing too and certain outfits styled to get the big tips because even when it's not the case, alot of waitresses sometimes believe the man at the table is the one paying and tipping. Nothing against that kind of hard work, but I've been to all sorts of different restaurants with both male and female waiters and the different attitudes of servers depending on the owner/s down to management and their own attitudes being put on the servers.
Of course, this sorta thing is small potatoes to the other sexist ways women have been treated throughout time and a little open mindedness with a touch feminism can't hurt anyone.
And I'm sure there are men who have experienced very near if not the exact same things as women, but probably mostly from men and some really aggressive strange and mean women.
Humans are complicated to say the least.

a reply to: valiant Wisdom doesn't always come with age and I wish I knew what to respond back then to the loud obnoxious man!

a reply to: peppycat

It certainly doesn't! and hindsight .. if only! but see it this way peppy, you probably learnt things about yourself dealing with that loud obnoxious idiot, and if a similar situation arose again, you'll no doubt be better prepared to respond.

a reply to: valiant lol! God forbid I should have to deal with such an arrogant person again, but yeah, my comeback would of been or would be something like, '' your too arrogant to even know your own self!''

and I did learn something from a wise older friend who said to me 'not to cast pearls before swine.' when I asked what she meant, she said I shouldn't have to say any personal experience I've had to such a man because he doesn't recognize it for how deep, meaningful or how much pain it caused me.
Alot of folks here at ATS also recognized that just saying that the clothing guy creeped me out, should have been enough and I'm very grateful for that because I really didn't know if I was just over sensitive.

a reply to: peppycat

Now that's a good one, never heard that before, your friend was wise!

Definitely not over sensitive, 110% creeper!

originally posted by: Freija
Even if you put biology aside for a minute, how can a man say they know what it is like to be a woman or know more about women than women do?

Have they ever been talked down to or had their opinions be discounted just for being female? Been treated with the attitude that a woman's place is in the kitchen making sammiches for them? Been objectified and judged because of their looks or body? Been subject to laws regarding the choices a woman is allowed to make about her own body? And how many men haven't taken advantage of certain aspects of male privilege or been part of some good o'l boy network that looks at women as weak, inferior or as second class citizens? Sure there are exceptions and differing situations but how often are men concerned about being raped or assaulted by someone physically superior or in greater numbers? The list could go

Granted, I may be a lot older than some of you here and from a time when sexism and misogyny was more blatant and obvious than it is in today's PC culture and my own attitudes toward men may be less than thinly disguised but men know more about women than women do? Yeah right. Add the biology back in and most of them are even more clueless.

lol the feminist rises! I bring up feminism in my post and point out how its related and the poster tells me to start a new tread. Yet will address this posting ok favoritism and group think are good I guess all this poster wanted was an echo chamber of yes men or woman.

Have they ever been talked down to or had their opinions be discounted just for being female?

A:No I'm a white male who has never been talked down too or had my opinions be discounted lol.

Been objectified and judged because of their looks or body?

A:Again White male so why don't you add in history I was never apart of.

And how many men haven't taken advantage of certain aspects of male privilege or been part of some good o'l boy network that looks at women as weak, inferior or as second class citizens?

A: Generalization at its finest. LOL male privilege what like the ability to pee standing up? Take off less sick days, work more hours, Die younger, be looked at like a racist, bigot simply because I'm white and have to worry I'm not up against an native American/black/ Chinese or white women or Native American/Black male when searching for a job because they need to fill a quota yet be looked at as privileged. O that kind of privileged

Add the biology back in and most of them are even more clueless.
A: I'm sure many male doctors are bubbling idiots who have only studied the male side of everything you know "good ol boy right!.

originally posted by: peppycat
a reply to: valiant lol! God forbid I should have to deal with such an arrogant person again, but yeah, my comeback would of been or would be something like, '' your too arrogant to even know your own self!''

and I did learn something from a wise older friend who said to me 'not to cast pearls before swine.' when I asked what she meant, she said I shouldn't have to say any personal experience I've had to such a man because he doesn't recognize it for how deep, meaningful or how much pain it caused me.
Alot of folks here at ATS also recognized that just saying that the clothing guy creeped me out, should have been enough and I'm very grateful for that because I really didn't know if I was just over sensitive.

lol that's not what that really means.

"Pearls before swine" and "casting pearls" refer to a quotation from Matthew 7:6 in Jesus's Sermon on the Mount: "Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces."

while it can be used in your context its more precise when talking about godly wisdom or wisdom obtained for salvation purposes. I highly doubt your discussion was godly or about salvation and more ego driven then anything else

sorry double post

a reply to: DBCowboy

Hilarious!
Very similar to my husband's description when I try to wade through the testosterone in my house.

Short answer to the OP, NO! I agree with the rest who say this seems off, creepy. Avoid both of them if possible would be my advice.

a reply to: jobless1 yeah telling a man that I got up a red flag about a man who feels up some woman's clothing and explaining that as a woman who has been sexually assaulted and that the man who feels up clothing makes me wary, is so unholy and man, the ego on me to want to avoid a situation like that again.

originally posted by: jobless1

originally posted by: Freija
Even if you put biology aside for a minute, how can a man say they know what it is like to be a woman or know more about women than women do?

Have they ever been talked down to or had their opinions be discounted just for being female? Been treated with the attitude that a woman's place is in the kitchen making sammiches for them? Been objectified and judged because of their looks or body? Been subject to laws regarding the choices a woman is allowed to make about her own body? And how many men haven't taken advantage of certain aspects of male privilege or been part of some good o'l boy network that looks at women as weak, inferior or as second class citizens? Sure there are exceptions and differing situations but how often are men concerned about being raped or assaulted by someone physically superior or in greater numbers? The list could go

Granted, I may be a lot older than some of you here and from a time when sexism and misogyny was more blatant and obvious than it is in today's PC culture and my own attitudes toward men may be less than thinly disguised but men know more about women than women do? Yeah right. Add the biology back in and most of them are even more clueless.

lol the feminist rises! I bring up feminism in my post and point out how its related and the poster tells me to start a new tread. Yet will address this posting ok favoritism and group think are good I guess all this poster wanted was an echo chamber of yes men or woman.

Have they ever been talked down to or had their opinions be discounted just for being female?

A:No I'm a white male who has never been talked down too or had my opinions be discounted lol.

Been objectified and judged because of their looks or body?

A:Again White male so why don't you add in history I was never apart of.

And how many men haven't taken advantage of certain aspects of male privilege or been part of some good o'l boy network that looks at women as weak, inferior or as second class citizens?

A: Generalization at its finest. LOL male privilege what like the ability to pee standing up? Take off less sick days, work more hours, Die younger, be looked at like a racist, bigot simply because I'm white and have to worry I'm not up against an native American/black/ Chinese or white women or Native American/Black male when searching for a job because they need to fill a quota yet be looked at as privileged. O that kind of privileged

Add the biology back in and most of them are even more clueless.
A: I'm sure many male doctors are bubbling idiots who have only studied the male side of everything you know "good ol boy right!.

I personally don't wan to discuss anything a woman struggles with in life (also labeled the controversial subject known as feminism) with you because you seem to have big issues with the opposite gender. I suggested you take these issues to another forum where feminism is the main topic being discussed and debated because I'm not interested in getting into it with someone so against women. That's how you are coming across. I'm not pro woman anti man. I was sharing an experience about two men who in my opinion, were not respectful of a woman or what a woman goes through.
I'm sorry about whatever makes you so mad at women, maybe one day you can work through your issues and find balance.

originally posted by: peppycat
I'm not pro woman anti man. I was sharing an experience about two men who in my opinion, were not respectful of a woman or what a woman goes through.

Yep, as a privileged white caveman I easily understood that from your OP.
You were discussing those two less than desirable blokes, and clearly most folk agree, especially so the clothes 'feeler upper' guy to me, he sounds well creepy. If my sister had been involved then me and him would have a chat...to be fair I'd probably have a chat with both of the blokes, but only if my sis allowed me to. Only once I got involved without asking her first and she was pretty pissed off with me lol

You've authored and managed a pretty interesting thread OP, I don't see you as some man hating crazy type, quite the opposite, reasoned and intelligent conversation.

a reply to: grainofsand Thank you Grainofsand, you sound like a really good brother and remind me of mine.

a reply to: peppycat

Haha thanks, but it's easy being a decent bro when I have such a lovely twin sis!
We've lived 200 miles away from each other for years now, but I'm only 3 or 4 hours drive back if needed, she's made the call a couple of times and yep, I drop everything.

I almost wish everyone was born boy-girl twins from my life experiences.
She gets a bloke who will defend her physically against other males like he would fight for his mother, while he gets someone who will listen to every single bit of his confused bull# when his head is like a box of frogs, and know exactly what to say!

...well that's my experience anyway

Men and women have differently structured brains. (Which is why transsexual people exist in the first place. They actually have the brain structure of the sex that they feel like. It's been shown on brain scans.) So no, a man cannot know women better than a woman does. He can't think like a woman because his brain is different.

I mean, if someone told me what that guy said about feeling up all the clothes, I would just laugh. Picturing it, it sounds funny to me, so I won't even pretend to understand how you feel.

a reply to: the Gospel of Luke feeling up clothing is kinda funny, it's just that the guy who said it was talking to a woman who told him where she worked. I witnessed this discussion on a public bus and couldn't help but overhear this conversation as the clothes feeler spoke loudly. It was clear they had spoken at least once or twice because he said to her, '' after you told me where you worked(a woman's clothing shop)I went in and felt up all the clothing.''
When I write this down I laugh at what he said, but if a man went to where I worked and told me he felt up things I work with, I would be very wary... it's funny in very creepy way.
BTW, the woman he was speaking to just stayed kinda aloof and disinterested but politely friendly... I mean how should one react to a potential stalker?

originally posted by: peppycat
feeling up clothing is kinda funny

No! It's dark and creepy!
Would you want that guy in your laundry room?!
Proper creepy in my mind and deserves calling out if he wasn't blatantly joking about it and it was understood by the audience that it is obviously something he wouldn't do.

...I come out with some dark creepy lines sometimes but whoever I'm saying it to knows clearly it is a dark joke and not real.

a reply to: grainofsand no this guy wasn't joking, it's just that this happened a while back and now I can laugh about it. Back when I heard him say it, I didn't think it was funny one bit and was thoroughly creeped out by this man, his choice of actions and words.
For some reason writing down this ''line"' he said after all this time, I find it darkly funny. I'm not nor was I too worried about the woman he was speaking too, because I thought she handled it well, and also when he was brought into my circle it had been a little while after I saw the creepy conversation. In having to get to know him a little bit, I came to the conclusion that he is just painfully socially award but, if someone was to give him the wrong idea, he could be pushed over the edge of reality. So, although I have compassion for people not experienced in casual socializing, I still pay attention to any red flags, as I have learned from personal experience.