A Question For Gay People

There have been some inconclusive studies on the subject. I know a couple of years ago the topic of "lisping" came up and I was able to dig up some papers on the matter. If I recall they could not at the time find any biological reason for it so perhaps it is behavioral. I will have to try to dig up the paper because as usual the thread was shut down. It has to be said though that effeminate mannerisms and lisping are not something confined to homosexuals so there may be no correlation outside of people adopting the behavior to fit a preconceived notion of how homosexuals are supposed to act. A sort of subculture has sprung up around homosexuality in the form of pride movements and such and the introduction of homosexual characters to television I am sure act like an archetype for others to emulate.

I have noticed some regional dialects have some of the typical issues you mention with tone and such. I have noticed many people from Kentucky and Appalachia who speak that way that are heterosexual. The old stereotype of the effeminate upper class southerner which is kind of what I am getting at in regards to the Appalachian/Kentucky dialect.

It is an interesting subject of inquiry OP thanks for bringing it up for discussion again. Hopefully this thread wont be 404'd.

a reply to: Annee

I dunno , I wish it was, maybe because I live on the beach is why I see it like that, not that the ocean ha anything to do with it ? Im sure it is different everywhere. I say this because sometimes I admire men and if I can tell he is gay then I get turned off instantly, I have maybe met a dozen gay guys that are not noticeably gay or fem. Then again I don't go out to bars and I don't think an un noticeable gay man would be at a gay bar because that would itself be noticeable, Im going to stop there, its too complicated for me ahahaha

a reply to: NihilistSanta

I think the thread is safe as long as we stop people from derailing it.

To a poster before you....this isn't a discussion about gender fluidity. Move that to another thread.

a reply to: NihilistSanta
yep, around here if you drive out to the country some of the men speak like that, we call it "country gay", hetero or not. The funniest is the actual country gay guy. I would also like to clarify that gay men are not the pinnacle of style or fashion, lets get that straight right now, I find most to be out of style.

I have a question for all the gays....

Why can't you all just act straight so we can end the gay posts on ATS...

originally posted by: Foderalover
a reply to: Annee

I dunno , I wish it was, maybe because I live on the beach is why I see it like that, not that the ocean ha anything to do with it ? Im sure it is different everywhere. I say this because sometimes I admire men and if I can tell he is gay then I get turned off instantly, I have maybe met a dozen gay guys that are not noticeably gay or fem. Then again I don't go out to bars and I don't think an un noticeable gay man would be at a gay bar because that would itself be noticeable, Im going to stop there, its too complicated for me ahahaha

I live at the beach near Hollywood CA.

But, worked a few years at a company where I was the minority being a straight woman. In the business world there are mostly "straight" gays.

It depends on environment. Same as straight world.

a reply to: Foderalover

I would also like to clarify that gay men are not the pinnacle of style or fashion, lets get that straight right now, I find most to be out of style.

Then it is quite obvious, my friend, that YOU have NO sense of style!

originally posted by: OhOkYeah

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: OhOkYeah

originally posted by: Annee
I'm going to try to give you a serious answer.

Science has found sexuality is very complicated. It is not just male-female. It is all shades of gray.

Source?

Sorry, have not kept a datalog of 20+ years of reading and researching.

I don't care if you accept it or not.

That's what I thought.

I see these claims constantly that science supports the "gender fluid" theory. I've yet to see even 1 shred of scientific evidence along with those claims.

I do know that there are a range of mental disorders related to gender dysphoria.

What causes Left Handedness?

There are plenty of things about the human body science doesn't have full knowledge of ---- but, does have indicators for course of direction.

What science does now know is what is not a mental disorder.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: stolencar18
a reply to: Annee

Okay...lets be honest. I am ignorant. There? Happy? I just want to know. We all know that what I describe occurs quite regularly. I'm wondering why. I don't judge it. I think it's fine. I'm curious what motivates it.

Then you won't be upset if we question your motivation. Curious eh?

Where do you live that you don't have any gay friends? Why not ask them....dosen't that make sense?

"Why not ask them?" Hunh! That's a bit of a smart ass question...
I have been surrounded by gay people all my adult life and even married a gay man, (not knowing it at the time).
I'm a heterosexual woman involved in the art world, so I'm surrounded with gays..


Whenever I have asked intimate, one to one questions about gayness, just to get a better understanding of what makes them tick, I have been rebuffed, as if I were trespassing on forbidden territory. Why?

I do get the impression that gay men think they're a superior elite group, closed to the rest of society, unable to clearly express themselves to the general public, except to those in their own closed circle...birds of a same feather.
So I have always wondered, "What is their fear in expressing their true feelings"?
If, in fact they are proud of who and how they are, as in 'gay pride', why do they hide?

I'm a person who couldn't care less if someone is gay or not, socially; although I am interested in human psychology and have been curious of the motivation behind being gay, just for the study. I have an investigative mind.

But I never, ever got a clear response.
What does that signify?

So to get back to your question, "Why not ask them?", maybe the OP has had the same responses that I've had...Zero!

First you have to understand that Sexual-Orientation, Gender-Identity, Assigned Sex and Gender-Expression are all separate. Sexual-Orientation and Gender-Identity is something you are born with, "Assigned Sex" is the Sex assigned to you at birth and does not always Match your true Gender-Identity, and Gender-Expression is how you Express "Gender" be it "Male" "Female" "Androgynous" Etc.

Second, you have to Understand that for every "Flamboyant" person you think of there are equal if not more Non-Flamboyant Gay Men, in fact a huge percentage of "Masculine Gay Men" look down on more Effeminate Men.

"Personality" and "Orientation" are again Separate, "Gay" and "effeminate" are not necessarily tied together. there are many "Heterosexual Men" who have a more effeminate side and don't exhibit the "Masculine" Characteristics
that people attribute to being "Straight"

a very good documentary, if you are really interested is

www.doisoundgay.com...

Me, i'm extremely flamboyant, and effeminate, i'm a Drag Performer/Female Impersonator and also Gender-Fluid.. i was Not nurtured this way, it wasn't my environment or the way i was raised that caused this

My "water cooler" chats were interesting.

Mostly they said, "I am who I am. We're not a side show. Do you have to explain who you are?"

originally posted by: Darth_Prime

Second, you have to Understand that for every "Flamboyant" person you think of there are equal if not more Non-Flamboyant Gay Men, in fact a huge percentage of "Masculine Gay Men" look down on more Effeminate Men.

So I discovered in "water cooler" chats.

This was at the company where I was the minority as a straight woman.

My friend - the main reason I became a supporter of LGBT rights said this: "I am a man". Period, end of story.

a reply to: Annee

It's also interesting that being more "Effeminate" is considered a bad thing, or "Wrong" and as a Female being "Masculine" is considered "Wrong" and can be both be used in a derogatory way.

Also some "Straight Men" who are confident in their Sexuality can be afforded to have "Effeminate Moments" that show off their "Sensitive Side" yet Gay Men who are Effeminate are just doing it for "Attention"

it seems like us Alphabet people (GLBTQ+) have to explain ourselves and actions and expressions and defend "Us"

a reply to: Darth_Prime

You are a group of people rejected by society, forced to the fringes by society --- but, were able to create your own thriving culture.

Now you're supposed to just jump back in that society and play by their rules?

Screw that.

gender can and is comfusing.

be it BI, Gay, Transgender,

then Transgender can be either heterosexual or homosexual.

or it can be due to being born Intersex.

How can you put a gender on someone that was born with genital ambiguity, and/or combinations of chromosomal genotype and sexual phenotype other than XY-male and XX-female
en.wikipedia.org...
www.isna.org...
most that are intersexual will at one point be labeled as bi, gay

some may not even know they are intersexual.

Total number of people whose bodies differ from standard male or female one in 100 births
1.7 percent of the world's population is born intersex

a reply to: zerozero00

No way it smacks of ignorance , if so, your post stinks of misunderstanding the OP.

He even made a disclaimer ffs.

If you can not see what he means, you probably need to log off and get out more.

I have a tonne of gay friends, from both sexes, and i'll bring this up on our next meet.

a reply to: stolencar18

As stupid as it seems you could probably remove "Gay" from your question and replace it with anything and get a question for trolling. It might seem hard to understand but let's try this together (This includes everyone who replied). Replace the word with OTHER and get the new sentence " A question for OTHER people. "

If we were talking about types of people you went to high school with and OP was asking what it was like to be a jock then he would be hurting some athlete, nerd or cowboy basically any self identified person or labeled "AS" feelings. While I would hope that this post was out of simple curiosity as stated it is scary that there is extreme feelings on both sides of the spectrum.

I guess I'm applauding the curious nature of someone asking a question here (who could be 10 or 88) and hoping that everyone can begin to realize we are all OTHER PEOPLE to each other. The human condition is the only thing we have in common, and that is more predictable than sexuality and curiosity.

P.L.U.R.

I don't think this is an ignorant thread. I only have one gay friend, a friend of a friend and as soon as I met him I knew he was gay. He's one of the funniest people I've met and I just felt so sorry that it took him so long to come out he still hasn't told his parents as they are quite religious, but I didn't care about him being gay. He's a nice bloke and that as all that matters. Just because he's gay doesn't mean he's going to try and come on to you or anything. I actually have a straight friend who is more camp than my gay friend he's actually married. It's really not important to Me.Contents Of character and all that. It's just a shame that in our society people can't just be themselves without the social pressures to conform to a certain stereotype.

a reply to: stolencar18

I know two fellas who are very feminine and actually speak very gay like and everyone thinks they are gay but are not.
No one acts gay btw people are who they are.
Who cares anyhow..

a reply to: boymonkey74

Well, the OP cares, hence the question ya wookie