Are you a sinner?

Lets see if I can answer this. A sin is a violation of religious law. A set of rules to live by so to speak. And since laws of this day and time are taken from religious tenets they follow along the same lines (well , almost), And , no my idea of a sin would not be different than anyone else's idea of sin as most religions at the very basic believe in the same "religious rules to live by" as most are universal.So if it is a sin , more than likely it is against the law of man as well and vice versa .

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

So what is a sinner? Obviously you are not one, so I'd love to hear what a sinner is.

I judge no man...I leave it to the xtians like yourself who have hijacked that function from your ruling demiurge

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Oh. OK.

To me, sinning is doing something intentionally that is out of integrity with what I know is right. Some examples are lying, cheating, acting without honor, lack of compassion, judging people, etc... I apply these "rules" to myself, only. It's not for me to judge whether or not other people sin, or what they consider sin to mean.

Well words have usages and lack intrinsic meanings, so most of the time you have to come to a common definition on something otherwise you can't even really talk about. Luckily, we agree on what sin is, so that won't be a point of contention for us. We also agree that a judge, when presented with someone who has broken the law should do his job accordingly.

I don't think there is any way to make up for sins, except to sincerely apologize to those I've sinned against, whether it be someone else or myself. And to learn from it.

I find it interesting that you and I have very similar views. So what you're saying above is that we can apologize and change our mind about how we should act next time, but that doesn't take away the fact that we sinned against that person or in the particular situation?

a reply to: DISRAELI

Old Testament, I defined sin as "being out of alignment with God's will".

In the Old Testament there are 2 distinct "gods", one was mans friends (The Lord-Adonai ) the other the pretender "lofty jealous mountain god jehova"

They have done well in hiding this anomaly. Most men worship the evil one.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb
There's no such thing as the religious concept of sin. Some people use the word generically, but that doesn't give it credibility. It's just one more word we use to describe right and wrong.

No. I am not a sinner, and I do not sin.

a reply to: hubrisinxs

Sin is both a noun and a verb. The Noun means: "an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law" and "an act regarded as a serious or regrettable fault, offense, or omission." The verb is the action of committing the noun. The word sin itself comes from "Old English synn (noun), syngian (verb); probably related to Latin sons, sont- ‘guilty.’" The word itself was used more frequently in the 1800's than today.

I would also like to add to this. The Biblical terms translated from New Testament Greek (αμαρτία - amartia) and from Hebrew as "sin" or "syn" originate in archery and literally refer to missing the "gold" at the centre of a target, but hitting the target, i.e. error.[7] (Archers call not hitting the target at all a "miss".) So in a sense of Christianity we would take the Hebrew origin, or at least I would, which means to miss the mark. Life is a series of choices at different moments in time. We can think of these like a series of bow shots at a target. When a moral choice is chosen we call it a hit. When an immoral choice is chosen we call it a miss. A sinner is someone who has missed the mark. That is the best analogy I can give unfortunately for how I feel about this.

As far as the other definition goes, I fear everyone has an act regarded as a serious or regrettable fault, offense, or omission in their life at some point in time, so we are all sinners.

I would agree with you, but based on whatever you believe why do we regret certain actions? For example, if I stole money from my loving grandmother. Why would I personally feel deep shame and regret for such an action? Would you feel the same? If so, why do you think you feel that way?

Religions are quite clear that God or Gods are very displeased when humans sin, and all religions have methods/rituals that allow human believers to seek forgiveness of their transgressions. If you are exceptionally religious then you must accept that you should seek forgiveness of your sins. Yet, like Benevolent Heretic said, an individual's idea of sin can be radically different from person to person, so people can feel they have sinned when no transgression has occurred and still seek forgiveness, and the opposite is true that some people will never see any action they commit as sinful and never seek redemption. Again, it is up to the person to see sin and seek forgiveness.

I never really brought up religion. Heretic and I pretty much have the exact same definition of sin. I know you brought it up because some religious people do define it as transgression against divine law, which again I think its an ok definition, but it requires much more explaining than just simply saying doing something wrong when you knew it was wrong.

If you are exceptionally religious then you must accept that you should seek forgiveness of your sins. Yet, like Benevolent Heretic said, an individual's idea of sin can be radically different from person to person, so people can feel they have sinned when no transgression has occurred and still seek forgiveness, and the opposite is true that some people will never see any action they commit as sinful and never seek redemption. Again, it is up to the person to see sin and seek forgiveness.

And I definitely agree with what he said. That gets into the question of weather what is moral and immoral are subjective choices or objective realities.

a reply to: Klassified

Generically speaking are you a sinner?

As a bunch of animals that discovered fire along with a whole lot of fear based problems, I don't believe in sin.
We created god/s and rules that these gods made. Thats all there is.
I don't think there is anything to it or anything more to worry about.

However, if you choose to live your life based on superstitions/religion, then you will be accountable for those "rules" since your brain actually "believes" it.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: Klassified

Generically speaking are you a sinner?

Used in the non-religious context, I have done things that have been wrong to do. Some would call that sin. I call it what it is. Wrong. Biblically, sin is transgression of god's law or commandments. I don't have any belief in god, or a need for redemption. Therefore, sin does not exist in that sense to me. Personally, I don't even use the word in my daily life.

a reply to: Learningman

Well, I was just a touch over one year old. I assure you I did not know of Jesus, let alone believe in Him with all of my heart.

Acts 8:36-37

Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”

37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”

And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

I completely agree with you, but I also don't believe the water is what baptized that man. I think it was a misconception in that mans mind and peter's response makes it clear. The baptism of fire precedes that baptism of water. Baptizing an infant is just silly.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
So what you're saying above is that we can apologize and change our mind about how we should act next time, but that doesn't take away the fact that we sinned against that person or in the particular situation?

Of course, apologizing doesn't change the past. There is no way to make something that happened into something that didn't happen. That's why I think words are so important. Once they've escaped, you can't "take it back", other than to sincerely apologize.

As I said, I don't use the word "sin" in my life, because of its religious connotations, but I could relate to the idea your were talking about, so put the word in quotes right off the bat.

a reply to: Klassified

Used in the non-religious context, I have done things that have been wrong to do. Some would call that sin. I call it what it is. Wrong. Biblically, sin is transgression of god's law or commandments. I don't have any belief in god, or a need for redemption. Therefore, sin does not exist in that sense to me. Personally, I don't even use the word in my daily life.

The only way I agree with the whole sin is a transgression of god's law thing is if you view God as the essence of Good. If God is the intrinsically Good, then not being in line with God's will or commandments would by definition of wrong. So that is the only way that definition really makes any sense to me, and not the one I would use.

I think it's arrogant of man to think he can "sin" in the eyes of a creative force powerful enough to create the universe and everything in it.

Can an individual atom in your body do something to offend you?

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Of course, apologizing doesn't change the past. There is no way to make something that happened into something that didn't happen. That's why I think words are so important. Once they've escaped, you can't "take it back", other than to sincerely apologize.

As I said, I don't use the word "sin" in my life, because of its religious connotations, but I could relate to the idea your were talking about, so put the word in quotes right off the bat.

So basically what you are saying is once a sinner, always sinner?

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I never said I wasn't a sinner. You say there are no sins, but only morality. What is a sin first of all? What are you saying doesn't exist? The I'd have to ask what is morality, and what is it derived from?

And I never suggested you were a sinner. And i'm pretty sure the sense of right and wrong preceded what we now know as a 'sin'.

Humanity preceded the seven deadly sins but yet we had our own morality systems (as flawed as they were) but moral governance did not start with the bible.

And besides, the whole idea of "sin" was created so that "redemption" could be waved around.

You see, in order for people to feel "free" they need to feel as though they can "sin". If they "sin" they need have a car wash for their soul/conscious -- this is where the church comes in.

The ideal of "freedom", "sin", and eventual "redemption" are all just ideas to control you. Only the people that know how to talk to God can give you redemption. For over a thousand years the Catholic church in the Christian world was the only place to go. Most people couldn't even read or understand Latin -- so they just took the Church's word on things.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

I think it's arrogant of man to think he can "sin" in the eyes of a creative force powerful enough to create the universe and everything in it.

Can an individual atom in your body do something to offend you?

I never mentioned God. That was other people simply because I used the word sin .

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I would also like to add to this. The Biblical terms translated from New Testament Greek (αμαρτία - amartia) and from Hebrew as "sin" or "syn" originate in archery and literally refer to missing the "gold" at the centre of a target, but hitting the target, i.e. error.[7] (Archers call not hitting the target at all a "miss".) So in a sense of Christianity we would take the Hebrew origin, or at least I would, which means to miss the mark. Life is a series of choices at different moments in time. We can think of these like a series of bow shots at a target. When a moral choice is chosen we call it a hit. When an immoral choice is chosen we call it a miss. A sinner is someone who has missed the mark. That is the best analogy I can give unfortunately for how I feel about this.

Well, I looked for the Hebrew word for SIN and found this:

The generic Hebrew word for any kind of sin is avera (literally: transgression). Based on verses in the Hebrew Bible, Judaism describes three levels of sin. There are three categories of a person who commits an avera. The first one is someone who does an avera intentionally, or "B'mezid." This is the most serious category. The second is one who did an avera by accident. This is called "B'shogeg," and while the person is still responsible for their action it is considered less serious. The third category is someone who is a "Tinok Shenishba", which is a person who was raised in an environment that was assimilated or non-Jewish, and is not aware of the proper Jewish laws, or halacha. This person is not held accountable for his or her actions.

Pesha (deliberate sin; in modern Hebrew: crime) or Mered (lit.: rebellion) - An intentional sin; an action committed in deliberate defiance of God; (Strong's Concordance :H6588 (פשע pesha', peh'shah). According to Strong it comes from the root (:H6586); rebellion, transgression, trespass.
Avon (lit.: iniquity) - This is a sin of lust or uncontrollable emotion. It is a sin done knowingly, but not done to defy God; (Strong's Concordance :H5771 (avon, aw-vone). According to Strong it comes from the root (:H5753); meaning perversity, moral evil:--fault, iniquity, mischief.
Cheit - This is an unintentional sin, crime or fault. (Strong's Concordance :H2399 (חַטָּא chate). According to Strong it comes from the root khaw-taw (:H2398, H2403) meaning "to miss, to err from the mark (speaking of an archer), to sin, to stumble." Wikipedia

The old testament and the Torah both show that breaking any of the 613 laws is a 'sin'. Can you provide the passage where you get this translation as an arrow missing the target, just like to see it see what Greek word you are referring to.

I never really brought up religion. Heretic and I pretty much have the exact same definition of sin. I know you brought it up because some religious people do define it as transgression against divine law, which again I think its an ok definition, but it requires much more explaining than just simply saying doing something wrong when you knew it was wrong.

You see my point, yet it was for the OP not on your discussion with Heretic. I do think you guys have a similar definition, yet that can be explained by the fact that perhaps you both speak English and know a generic meaning of the word. I also agree that the devout religious definition needs a deeper explanation, but I think someone did that a few post back.

And I definitely agree with what he said. That gets into the question of weather what is moral and immoral are subjective choices or objective realities.

Without religion, the questions of "what is moral" and "is morality subjective or not" becomes a philosophical one, and I feel that was not the goal of the OP, yet still a good question.

a reply to: Thecakeisalie

Sorry but I don't really see how you answered any of my questions.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: Klassified

Used in the non-religious context, I have done things that have been wrong to do. Some would call that sin. I call it what it is. Wrong. Biblically, sin is transgression of god's law or commandments. I don't have any belief in god, or a need for redemption. Therefore, sin does not exist in that sense to me. Personally, I don't even use the word in my daily life.

The only way I agree with the whole sin is a transgression of god's law thing is if you view God as the essence of Good. If God is the intrinsically Good, then not being in line with God's will or commandments would by definition of wrong. So that is the only way that definition really makes any sense to me, and not the one I would use.

Is that not how Christians as a whole, view the god of the bible? The essence of good? Intrinsically good?