Are you a sinner?

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
I also already gave you evidence of objective morals but you ignored them. Murder is objectively wrong. That is the apple I am showing to the guy who says fruit doesn't exist. If you refuse after that there is not much I can do but assume you are incapable of understanding what I am talking about due to a mental block of some kind. There very fact that we are having this conversation should show that logic dictates either murder is good or murder is bad. The only way for you to remain logically consistent is to concede to moral nihilism but then you lose all right to judge moral situations or you are not living coherently with what you say you believe.

How is murder objectively wrong? What makes it objectively wrong exactly? There has to be a FIRM argument for objectivity. Something provable. The very fact that people who exist that DON'T think that murder is wrong says that it isn't objectively wrong. How can you deny the existence of these people?

Even humans who think that murder is wrong think up tons of ways to condone murder all the time. What do you think the death penalty is? What about killing someone in self-defense? Is that not murder? What about killing someone in a rage, say after they did something super heinous to you like raped a family member of yours? Is that not murder? Would you not condone something like that? The point is that there are exceptions to every rule, and that alone makes it not objectively wrong.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

So one of the biggest issues people have Christianity is the concept that humans are sinners. So ATS, are you a sinner or are you sinless? If you are a sinner, what does that mean? If you are sinless, what does that mean? If you are a sinner, is it necessary to make up for past sins? If it is necessary, how do you make up for past sins? If it isn't necessary, do you make up for past sins? When people commit atrocious sins, such as murder, and are arrested should the judge put forth judgment? So ATS, I look forward to hearing your responses.

According to the doctrine of Jesus I am a sinner and every person on this earth is a sinner. A sinner is one who has transgressed the perfect will of God. Not the permissive will of God but the perfect will of God.

Jesus teaches that we should, if possible, confess our transgressions to those of whom we have transgressed and then confess our sins to Jesus in secret. Nothing else is required besides repenting of awareness of your sin.

Judgement of sin is very controversial. One can judge themselves and repent and still be required to face judgement by man or God. King David was one example but that was under the covenant of Moses.

I understand judgment as an opinion of an uncertain event. Once penalties have been established as law then it is a matter of establishing guilt but a judge should only be the referee as to the law and not condemn or acquit as to his/her opinions. A Christin should not express an opinion in any uncertain matter and should always forgive a trespass but a penalty should be considered in certain cases of proven guilt. I do not believe in the death penalty but do believe in incarceration for some crimes. This a highly controversial subject and would not debate this issue. just my own opinion.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I think it's arrogant of man to think he can "sin" in the eyes of a creative force powerful enough to create the universe and everything in it.

Can an individual atom in your body do something to offend you?

because we are arrogant enough to think we "deserve" more, yes that little atom probably could. we are renowned for making mountains out of molehills.

but a very interesting way to look at it nonetheless.

a reply to: TzarChasm

I mean, in a universe as vast as ours -- with as many planets, stars, galaxies...why are WE so special, so unique and "watched" by whatever created everything else? What a waste of creative force if we're the only beings of consequence. Why make the universe so expansive and vast if we're the only ones who matter to this "God"?

It doesn't make any sense.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
So one of the biggest issues people have Christianity is the concept that humans are sinners. So ATS, are you a sinner or are you sinless? If you are a sinner, what does that mean? If you are sinless, what does that mean?

The question is akin to asking whether or not I'm a Sith lord....

Kintsukuroi: the practice of fixing cracked pottery with silver or gold and regarding it has more beautiful for having been flawed.