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Are you a sinner?

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posted on Nov, 23 2015 @ 02:12 PM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

A sinner is a made up word from the Christian religion to describe an action or state of being that goes against Christian morality.

Because there are as many denominations of Christianity as there are Christians in this world, that means that sinner can have a wildly different meaning between each Christian, and even ex-Christians such as myself. So I dismiss a word with a definition that can be loose like that.

ETA: One more thing. A sin is supposed to be a mark on one's soul. If I'm not even sure a soul exists, why would I acknowledge something that is supposed to affect it?
edit on 23-11-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 23 2015 @ 02:15 PM
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a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1




we are the universe experiencing itself and Jesus is an allegorical representation of the human condition (as are all other religious stories), but the details surrounding that base idea are constantly changing, sometimes every day.


What do you mean we are the universe? I don't feel like the observer that I am is the same as the coffee mug on the table. Are you saying that the observer behind my biology is the same as the observer behind your biology? I may agree that our physical bodies are connected to any given point in the universe because the fundamental particles that make us up don't necessarily have locality until they are observed. Try not to be so vague.



posted on Nov, 23 2015 @ 02:19 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t




A sinner is a made up word from the Christian religion to describe an action or state of being that goes against Christian morality.


As we already mentioned the word sinner means one who has sinned. The term sin comes from an old archery term that means to miss the mark. I think a sin is when you preform an unloving action or have an unloving thought. Something we are all guilty of on occasion. The mark we are aiming for is to be perfectly loving beings, and its just not in human nature to do so all the time. You seem to be unwilling to enter the conversation and find common ground on this ideology. Doesn't really make much sense to me.



posted on Nov, 23 2015 @ 02:26 PM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Why should I seek out common ground? You asked ATS if we are sinners. I gave you my understanding of the word and how I felt about it. Are we ALL supposed to agree with some part of your definition or something?

I see it as a silly Christian word with little meaning to myself. I agree that humans err and I also agree that humans disobey their moralities. I DON'T agree that there is some giant mystical set of do's and don'ts that humans must obey lest they get a check in the naughty list. Morality is too fluid for there to be a rigid set of lists like that.

Or hell, if you are Catholic, then you are a sinner 24/7. You can't even DO anything in this world without racking up a check mark in the naughty list.
edit on 23-11-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2015 @ 02:28 PM
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I think "sin" is when you do something you feel guilty for having done.



posted on Nov, 23 2015 @ 02:33 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

So then a psychopath or a sociopath could never be a sinner?



posted on Nov, 23 2015 @ 02:43 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t




I agree that humans err and I also agree that humans disobey their moralities.


In my personal opinion this is the same thing as saying all humans are sinners.




I DON'T agree that there is some giant mystical set of do's and don'ts that humans must obey lest they get a check in the naughty list. Morality is too fluid for there to be a rigid set of lists like that.


I don't either. I think each human is embedded with the ability to tell right from wrong. The question of whether they care what is right and wrong are totally different. For example, Beth from the Child of Rage documentary. She knew it was wrong to hurt her brother, but because of who she was she did not care that it was wrong. After therapy, she begins to cry because of what she used to do to her baby brother. Her perspective on what was right and what was wrong did not change but how she felt about doing things wrong changed dramatically. I think morality is fluid because people don't honestly care if something is loving or unloving all the time. Nor do they care to actually analyze their actions and determine if each action is the best path to take. It doesn't disprove that there is a moral standard embedded within us it just shows that we don't all care about it all the time.



posted on Nov, 23 2015 @ 02:51 PM
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originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: Krazysh0t
In my personal opinion this is the same thing as saying all humans are sinners.


Making a mistake isn't sinning.


I don't either. I think each human is embedded with the ability to tell right from wrong. The question of whether they care what is right and wrong are totally different. For example, Beth from the Child of Rage documentary. She knew it was wrong to hurt her brother, but because of who she was she did not care that it was wrong. After therapy, she begins to cry because of what she used to do to her baby brother. Her perspective on what was right and what was wrong did not change but how she felt about doing things wrong changed dramatically. I think morality is fluid because people don't honestly care if something is loving or unloving all the time. Nor do they care to actually analyze their actions and determine if each action is the best path to take. It doesn't disprove that there is a moral standard embedded within us it just shows that we don't all care about it all the time.


Right and wrong are learned from the culture you are born into. The existence of psychopaths and sociopaths pretty much shoots your hypothesis to hell here. Those are clearly examples of people born without, and never gain, a sense of right and wrong. Plus look at the leniency we give teenagers when they commit a crime. We try them as a juvenile because society recognizes that they aren't old enough to know better yet.

If you think about it though, it all makes sense. Are we saying that humans today are born thinking that slavery is wrong., yet 150 years ago, humans didn't have that sense of wrongness? Like I said, morality is too fluid. That should ALSO be proof that we aren't born with a sense of right and wrong. No two people have the same set of morals.



posted on Nov, 23 2015 @ 02:58 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Not in their own mind. No.

To them, their actions aren't evil, bad, wrong, or full of guilt & shame.

Most of us have an internal, "on-board" moral compass that is synced to a common standard baseline. Those folks you mentioned? They don't have that.

Going back to pre-history and before the written language people have noticed how other people feel guilty and began to exploit that human quality. They named the shame and guilt something, told them how the creator frowned on it, and offered them salvation and a way to cleanse them of their guilt and shame -- in exchange for power/worship/money.

Its quite brilliant. When we "sin" we feel guilty and shameful, and we run to someone else and tell them about it. They, in turn, tell us that someone called God forgives them and we run along feeling much better.

Weird. Someone else telling us it'll be OK can wash the guilt and shame away.

I think its purely psychological -- the more authoritative (knowledgeable) about the "secrets of the universe" the person is, the more effective they are at erasing our guilt and shame.
edit on 23-11-2015 by MystikMushroom because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2015 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

Ah. Now I see what you are saying. You have a similar belief about sinning that I do. It's a tool, invented by the religious, to play on people's guilt. I hadn't thought of that with my original response, but I like it. It makes sense.
edit on 23-11-2015 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2015 @ 03:17 PM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Yes, the observer behind your biology is the same one that is behind mine. The mind in-between the observer and observed is what's different, the consciousness that observes and takes information in is the same.

ETA: Referring to you and the coffee cup, the coffee cup is a part of your experience so it is a part of you as well. Are your hand and foot the same? No, but they are still a part of you. In the same way, that coffee cup is a part of you as well.
edit on 11/23/2015 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2015 @ 03:27 PM
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I will not argue about the meaning of the word. I will not argue about the existence of any gods. I will just answer the question and then leave the thread.

I am a sinner.

What that means to you, is up to you.
edit on 23-11-2015 by karmicecstasy because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2015 @ 04:58 PM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

After doing a bit more research on the greek I found this:

To begin, let us briefly define what we mean by the terms “sin” and “hell.” First, the term that we translate into English as “sin” comes from the Greek word hamartia which simply means “a failure, error, or missing of the mark.”[1] The verbal form hamartano – “to sin, commit a wrong” – has this same meaning and can be done “against divinity, custom, or law.”[2] Contrary to popular thought, then, hamartia and hamartano are not super theological words with special spiritual meaning as many theologians throughout church history have suggested. In other words, they do not sometimes mean “original sin” while other times mean “personal sin.” Nor do they have notions of “unintentional” versus “intentional” sin as John Wesley taught. These words in the NT simply mean “a missing of the mark,” like someone failing to hit the bull’s eye on a target – the “mark” or “bull’s eye” being God’s glory and holiness. This then is what Jesus’ death and resurrection are said to forgive and atone for according to the NT writers.[3] SOURCE

The greek word does not seem to have a grand theological meaning, it is just the idea that you missed gods mark. The greek meant to commit a wrong against divinity or law. I think I see how you define sin, and in that I must disagree. I think that God gave humans free will and it would be a 'sin' not to use that free will.

Also, an archer can intentionally miss his target or an archer can unintentionally miss their target, the article and all the bible references where the greek word for to miss or be guilty is used it is used in a pejoratively because it is trying to make the same point you did about sin. We are all sinners, but only some people refuse to accept this and never acknowledge they do wrong.

People rarely get upset at something they call themselves because most people would not call themselves something that would be offensive to themselves. Also, if someone gets upset because someone else called them a sinner, it is probably because they are in doubt of themselves and their own moral standing.

My last point is that Theological discussion and Philosophical discussion are often on the same topics, yet theology accepts religion and attempts to answer the question within a religious worldview. If we were to only discuss morality and if people think they are immoral, that's fine, but I think that is more for the philosophical board and not the religious board.



posted on Nov, 23 2015 @ 08:05 PM
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a reply to: hubrisinxs

ah. i miss the mark quite often...but i only fail when i give up entirely.



posted on Nov, 23 2015 @ 09:59 PM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Yes I am a sinner .
No i dont have to make up for my sins Jesus paid my bail.
No that dont mean I can keep doing same thing lol.
And yes judges are supposed to deal with it .....a.k.a the law.
I think it is in the book of judges not being sarcastic but all the laws are in duet judges ect....
And there is no one who is sinless we are all born into sin.............even if that means our d.n.a



posted on Nov, 23 2015 @ 10:01 PM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Actually its the jews they came up with sin see everything not the christains fault.
The original word sin means - to miss.
It doesn’t mean to commit something wrong; it simply means to miss, to be absent.
The Hebrew root for the word sin, means to miss.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 12:23 AM
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originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
So one of the biggest issues people have Christianity is the concept that humans are sinners. So ATS, are you a sinner or are you sinless? If you are a sinner, what does that mean? If you are sinless, what does that mean?

If you are a sinner, is it necessary to make up for past sins? If it is necessary, how do you make up for past sins? If it isn't necessary, do you make up for past sins?

When people commit atrocious sins, such as murder, and are arrested should the judge put forth judgment?

So ATS, I look forward to hearing your responses.


Religion sure is slow.

Im a sinner, you're a sinner. WE all are sinners. Your god even said so in his latest book, the best seller, called "THE BIBLE"

Ahh but, yes.. we're all sinners.

Difference is, an atheist does not need another man to tell him how to be good.
A christian needs the word of god to live by, or he'll become a raving maniac eating all the fruit and raping all the holes.

Seems to me, prayer too, is an act of begging, and not thanks for everything.

"Dear god I know you will do my best" -- player for nothing. Everything god wants you to have you have. Thanks god!
"Dear god, please let me have enough this winter to provide for my family!!" -- begging. God hates you unless you beg.

Bah keep your chains, just keep them away from me.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 02:19 AM
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I am not a sinner.

But I appreciate your concern.



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 05:27 AM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb




When an immoral choice is chosen we call it a miss


Ah but that is your judgement call, there are times and uses for immoral choices to further grow on your life path



posted on Nov, 24 2015 @ 06:07 AM
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d/p
edit on 24-11-2015 by TheConstruKctionofLight because: d/p



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