Misconceptions about the athiest.

Oh good, I've been worrying for a little while now. Go Christian God! Wohoo! *cheers*

Worrying?

I do not believe in any religions god. I believe in myself, because I know in the absolute reality, I am god. I believe in a god that is infinite love, cohesion, perfection and peace. I do not believe in some tyrannical, judgemental, vengeful and punishing organizations god. I would rather adopt satanism to that.

Nor, do I believe I was born condemned and under god. I believe I was born gifted and with the essence of God. If only all of us believed in ourselves and our innate divinity.

[edit on 6-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Want to be an Atheist- go right ahead.
I don't think 'that' in itself makes a person one thing or another as to personal morals.

As to sin, it is often a misunderstood concept.

The Good Samaratin (Christian Bible) was lauded by Christ, yet he (the Samaratin) certainly was not a Christian.

Yes there are a lot of people claiming to be one thing or another yet acting in ways that seem to disprove their claims. Judge them just as soon as you can see their heart.

Are some Atheists good people? Sure. Are some Christians bad? No. Are some people claiming to be Christians bad? Absolutely.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
...you actually did make anti-religious remarks over and over again, that were very stupid and ignorant. Someone has to correct your mistakes.

...despite the fact that a few have corrected you. I could loosly call that trolling.

I am not dogmatic and judgemental like yourself.

Do you have an excuse for not being able to read? In case you are short-sighted:

It would be highly ignorant to say all atheists are immoral and all theists are moral. People are not black and white.

Apparently not, some are indigo. Sorry, had to throw that in.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Again, if you can actually read, read my previous post, where I differentiate between observation and judgement.

you made the same ignorant allegations, even though they were refuted and corrected on several occasions. And then hear you say "I grow as a person" is really a big joke.

What you don't want to receive is the truth about yourself. Rather than facing it, you run away from it. You can't run forever. Anyway, I can care less if you debate or don't debate, because all I've seen so far is rhetoric and a lot of irrational prejudice.

Whatever religion you do in fact believe in, it sure has a strange way of showing how to help/lead people.

Time to see if mods really do exist.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child

Oh good, I've been worrying for a little while now. Go Christian God! Wohoo! *cheers*

Worrying?

Yeah, thought you were trying to represent some kind of 'Christian' viewpoint I'd never heard of.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I do not believe in any religions god. I believe in myself, because I know in the absolute reality, I am god.

But your title says Child of God. Are you a child of yourself? Is this one of those puzzles where if you go back in time and marry your mother that you're your own father?

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I believe in a god that is infinite love, cohesion, perfection and peace. I do not believe in some tyrannical, judgemental, vengeful and punishing organizations god. I would rather adopt satanism to that.

Here we go again with God being a tyrant and such. My question is still hanging out there so I'll not ask it again. I'm sure you'd go for satanism moreso because a core belief is to serve yourself. It's a tough thing to give up.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Nor, do I believe I was born condemned and under god. I believe I was born gifted and with the essence of God. If only all of us believed in ourselves and our innate divinity.

Glad you're enjoying yourself. Hey, aren't you the one that pushed me out of the way to get to the front of the line at the bank? I thought I remember someone says something about being god...

Whatever religion you do in fact believe in, it sure has a strange way of showing how to help/lead people.

This is very interesting; a christian is siding with an anti-christian atheist against the spiritualist. I am glad that I brought you two together.

I do not follow any religion, because all organized religions are false and self-contradictory, and by their very narture, against free will. What I do, use each religion and philosophy as a stepping stone, assimilate the positive in all, to form a synthesis of positive ideals from all systems of thought to understand myself and the universe better.

Further, I am not helping or leading anyone, and nor did I say I was. I am just commenting in a debate.

[edit on 6-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

But your title says Child of God. Are you a child of yourself? Is this one of those puzzles where if you go back in time and marry your mother that you're your own father?

You are comprised of your parents DNA. There is a part of them in you. At the same time you are their child. In the same way, I am a part of god. Yet at the same time a child of god.

Here we go again with God being a tyrant and such. My question is still hanging out there so I'll not ask it again. I'm sure you'd go for satanism moreso because a core belief is to serve yourself. It's a tough thing to give up.

No, god is not a tyrant. It is your church that is the tyrant and teaches you to fear god's wrarth, otherwise he will damn you for eternity. It is your church that teaches you that you are born condemned. Frankly, I can't see why you would believe in such nonsense.

Can't you see yourself that your god is senseless? How can he be all mercifull and loving, if he condemns people to hell for not praying to him? Think.

Glad you're enjoying yourself. Hey, aren't you the one that pushed me out of the way to get to the front of the line at the bank? I thought I remember someone says something about being god...

No, that was not me. I am sure we are a continent apart, and even though interest rates are better there, it's not worth a plane ride everytime I want to withdraw something

The sarcasm aside. I never said that we should be selfish. I said that we should believe in our own divinity and part of believing in divinity is practicing divinity. And divinity and selfishness do not go hand in hand. For I am a part of god, then so you are you, and I shall treat you, as I would treat myself. Oh -- and I am very self-critical

[edit on 6-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
This is very interesting; a christian is siding with an anti-christian atheist against the spiritualist. I am glad that I brought you two together.

We have points we agree on. We have points we do not agree on. Either way riley has my respect through his use of wisdom and reasoning.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I do not follow any religion, because all organized religions are false and self-contradictory, and by their very narture, against free will.

I find Christianity to be an 'enabler' not a 'disabler'. I'm free from carrying around sin-baggage all the time, confusion, fear, anger and such. It feels good to drop those chains. Now I can be me. Now the truth is easier to see.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Further, I am not helping or leading anyone, and nor did I say I was. I am just commenting in a debate.

Gotcha. Well, at least I and others know your intentions here then. If I ever need help in anything, I'll be sure to not to call on you.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
No, god is not a tyrant.

But...but...you said...

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Further, I do not actually agree with Christianity, that comprises the bulk of that 90%. Their god is judgemental, punishing and tyrannical and controls his children with fear. I think it is as bad as atheism.

Which is it?

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
It is your church that is the tyrant and teaches you to fear god's wrarth, otherwise he will damn you for eternity. It is your church that teaches you that you are born condemned. Frankly, I can't see why you would believe in such nonsense.

Oh...now it's the church's fault too. I see...

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Can't you see yourself that your god is senseless? How can he be all mercifull and loving, if he condemns people to hell for not praying to him? Think.

I believe Revelations talks about judgment. C'mon Indigo, you seem to know all about that.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
The sarcasm aside. I never said that we should be selfish. I said that we should believe in our own divinity and part of believing in divinity is practicing divinity. And divinity and selfishness do not go hand in hand. For I am a part of god, then so you are you, and I shall treat you, as I would treat myself.

Prove it. You haven't yet. Oh wait, don't tell me, you're a masochist, right?

We have points we agree on. We have points we do not agree on. Either way riley has my respect through his use of wisdom and reasoning.

Do you actually read his posts and his incessant anti-christian remarks? Anyway this complex love affair is your own business. I am not going to be Jenny Jones between you two.

I find Christianity to be an 'enabler' not a 'disabler'. I'm free from carrying around sin-baggage all the time, confusion, fear, anger and such. It feels good to drop those chains. Now I can be me. Now the truth is easier to see.

You are always carrying around sins according to your religion. Did you ever miss church? Are you baptized? Have you ever had evil thoughts? -- "Please god, I have sinned, forgive me"

Gotcha. Well, at least I and others know your intentions here then. If I ever need help in anything, I'll be sure to not to call on you.

No, please don't call on me. International calls are expensive - now that's help The purpose of this discussion/debate is not to help, but to discuss/debate. When you make a plea for help from me, and it is within my capacity to aid, I will.

Oh, come on Saint4god, at least respect your own intelligence. I grow tiresome of playing tennis with you.

I said God is not a tyrant. I said the Christian God, as dictated by the Church, is a tyrant. And as the Christian God cannot exist, it therefore follows it's a creation by the Church to control the people by fear. That is what has happened with the crusades and the inquistions.

And yes, it is the Church's fault. The religion of christianity is a religion by the church. And the church has changed the rules and aborgated passages in the bible many of times. The bibe has been revised more times than Michael Jackson has had plastic surgery.

It is blatantly obvious that Christianity is a fabrication and created by people with vested political interests. And that is actually true, because the pope of the catholic church, has the highest authority and what he ordains is as good as god.

This is when religion becomes dangerous. When it is run by men who claim it is god's orders.

[edit on 6-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
You are always carrying around sins according to your religion. Did you ever miss church?

Yes. Last Sunday too. Hoping to make it more of a regular thing. I hadn't had a church per say before so a dedicated schedule takes some getting used to.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Are you baptized?

Depends on your definition.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Have you ever had evil thoughts?

Frequently. Some while reading your posts . For example, your self declaration of god brought about some angry feelings. I know it's not right and stop before thoughts become action. I'm working in clearing these thoughts as well.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
-- "Please god, I have sinned, forgive me"

Don't knock it 'till you've tried it.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
No, please don't call on me. International calls are expensive - now that's help

The purpose of this discussion/debate is not to help, but to discuss/debate. When you make a plea for help from me, and it is within my capacity to aid, I will.

*shrug*

In other words, you have commited sins and are still carrying the original sin. At this point if you meet death. Where shall your God send you? Hell, purgatory or limbo?

Frequently. Some while reading your posts

. For example, your self declaration of god brought about some angry feelings. I know it's not right and stop before thoughts become action. I'm working in clearing these thoughts as well.

Yes, how dare he call himself the son of god. How dare he call himself god! He must be crucified. He must be in league with the devil.

Does that sound familiar? It is so unfortunate that you don't even understand what the founder of your religion preached and even more unforunate that it was this type of thinking that lead to his crucifixion.

*shrug*

I am the way. I am the light. I am the truth. I am the son of God. You will only reach god through me.



[edit on 6-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by saint4God
I see what you're saying. There was a vampire who had drifted away (in part by my lack of my willingness to hang-out) and I felt somewhat responsible/saddened for that. Retrospect I wish I would've done more. I can try to justify it to myself all I want, nothing is more expensive than regret I think.

know the feeling all too well.

Seriously! Money and Saturated/Trans-fats. I cut fast food a few years ago. In addition to exercise 15 mins. a day, I lost 40 lbs in 8 months.

Congrats.

It's a good feeling not being sick and tired anymore. I'm finding I don't think/worry about myself all the time and have been enabled to focus on others. It may sound odd, but it did stregthen my spirit and prepared me for the works God had prepared for me. It's a wild ride these days, I can't even begin to put it into words.

I'm feeling guilty now for still not having quite smoking yet.. I think such decisions really can drastically change life for the better.

But but, what kind of faith do you have in me?

Yes.. because you have faith in yourself [oh crap I sound like dr phill] -or have that security through god.

I mean, is it microscopic or something that has to be earned or would you have faith in me even if you just saw me on the street?

Or is it only that you have faith I'll be unpredictable and hope it's for the best?

I think faith in other people depends on the faith they put in themselves.. I can always see their potential, beauty and light.. but can also see their darkness.
I completely understand why people believe in a god.. and why it saves some from whatever darkness they were in.. I just think it's kind of sad that it's easier for people to believe in god than themselves. Shouldn't matter either way so long as they're empowered by something positive not negative [christian wise I guess that'd be satan].
You have faith in a compassionate god.. which means you have compassion for yourelf and faith in yourself. Some people have faith in a cruel god.. so they can only be cruel. Humans have the capacity of being both.. and belief can be used to empower both sides.

Didn't mean to drop a napalm of questions so whichever however you'd like to address is fine.

No probs. I know my answers seem a bit confused.. it's nearly 2am here and I'm a bit foggy.. will still think on it though.
'night.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
In other words, you have commited sins and are still carrying the original sin. At this point if you meet death. Where shall your God send you?

The point of Christianity is that by accepting God and Jesus as his son, these sins can be forgiven (click the link in signature line for details). As a Christian, I need to do my part to be sincere and change.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Hell

Not according to my Book I wouldn't. The promise still remains in John 3:16

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
, purgatory or limbo?

I've not seen these two places in the Bible, so I'm not sure where this is comes from.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Yes, how dare he call himself the son of god. How dare he call himself god! He must be crucified. He must be in league with the devil.

Did I say any of that? The reason why I was angry was because this competiveness looked an awful lot like belittling God, whom I love. In the same way, you would try to protect a loved one from a verbal assault. I should've known better though, realizing God takes care of things Himself and this is not my role. Another reason why my anger was wrong is because what kind of love for you would I have if I were angry? It was a reaction that was incorrect. I do not believe anyone should crucified. I do not believe you're in league with the Devil.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Does that sound familiar? It is so unfortunate that you don't even understand what the founder of your religion preached and even more unforunate that it was this type of thinking that lead to his crucifixion.

Already addressed and you're making a judgment of me. If I'm wrong, show me how I do not understand what the founder of my religion preached. I will stand accused because I am not afraid.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I am the way. I am the light. I am the truth. I am the son of God. You will only reach god through me.

I have no dispute with Jesus' quote here. In fact, I'm very fond of it.

[edit on 7-1-2005 by saint4God]

Saint4god,

What exactly is Christianity? It seems like everyone has their own interpretation of it? There are catholics, protestants, jehovas witnesses, fundamental Christians, Mormons etc.

The bible itself has been revised so many times by the church. Whose religion is it? Where does Jesus figure in all of this mess? Where is the sense in this nonsense?

Tell me if this is true or false: At death, god judges you, and sends you to either heaven or hell.

According to the Roman Catholic church, purgatory is a place of suffering to expiate venial sins. And limbo is a place of unbaptized souls and a place of those who lived before the coming of christ. In other words it's more nonsense.

Isn't it very conveniant for you; that you can rid of your sins by simplying bathing in water that the church calls holy. By accepting Jesus as gods son. By saying x number of hellmarys.

Not according to my Book I wouldn't. The promise still remains in John 3:16

Yet, according to another book you would?

Did I say any of that? The reason why I was angry was because this competiveness looked an awful lot like belittling God, whom I love. In the same way, you would try to protect a loved one from a verbal assault. I should've known better though, realizing God takes care of things Himself and this is not my role. Another reason why my anger was wrong is because what kind of love for you would I have if I were angry? It was a reaction that was incorrect. I do not believe anyone should crucified. I do not believe you're in league with the Devil.

I gave you an example of how your reaction was not unlike the reaction Jesus received when he said he was the son of god and god. More later:

Already addressed and you're making a judgment of me. If I'm wrong, show me how I do not understand what the founder of my religion preached. I will stand accused because I am not afraid.

I have no dispute with Jesus' quote here. In fact, I'm very fond of it.

I was not quoting Jesus. I was allowing Jesus to speak through me. I am god. I am the son of God. I am Jesus. I am the way. I am the light. I am the truth. You will only reach God through me.

If I said this in front of the Roman catholic church. I would be first ridiculed, then condemned and then punished - just like Jesus.

This is what you and your church have not understood about Jesus's teachings. You have completely missed the point. What have you learned about Jesus, if you emulate the same thinking that lead to his crufixion? Nothing.

You belittle god yourself by limiting the unlimited. You render god senseless by making sense of him. You render him powerless by physicalizing and mortalizing him. You separate him from his creation.

Do you really think the human concepts of procreation apply to God? Do you think God is involved in human politics? Do you seriously think he has a son?

If Jesus is gods son? Then who are we? How can we be the children of god, if Jesus himself is gods son?

Which is the truth? Are we the children of god? Or is Jesus the son of god?

What was Jesus? Mortal.
Who are we? Mortal.

If Jesus is the son of god, then so are we. If Jesus is god, then so are we. And that is what Jesus taught. And that is what I learnt.

So try this next time you commit a sin "I accept God and I accept that I am his son" because that is the way; the truth; the light; and how you can get to god. "Jesus" separates you from god.

You are a part of him. In the same way your parents are a part of you. You are both the son of god and god. You cannot make sense of god. You can only know it. All that is - is god. You are god. All physical realities are dualities, meaning, each is relative to the other, each is separated from the other. In the reality of god - there is no duality -- there is no separation -- we are one with him.

This makes more sense than the nonsense you are taught by church of humans beings. All there is - is spirituality - and spirituality is the truth that you are a soul - a part that makes the whole, the supreme soul and light, that we call god. You exist as everything at the same time. There is no space and there is no time ------- and there is NO sin. The sin is what you create in your mind. And just as easily expiate with your mind. It's not the holy water. It's not accepting god or Jesus. It's not saying x number of Hellmarys --- It's your mind. And the hell and heavens are in your mind too. You judge yourself.

You know Hilter went to heaven(If you did not think I was in league with the devil; think again) Because he did not actually sin. The people sinned for him. All he did was talk. And in his mind there were no sins to cleanse.

Accept yourself as god, and your reality as your universe and your mind as it's cause. If you cannot accept that, then accept it through me. Or will it take for me to be crucified before a huge crowd of *insert religions or religions* before you accept me as your saviour? Please, because you know what. I am the modern Jesus. I say screw that.

[edit on 7-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Saint4god,

What exactly is Christianity?

The belief in God and that he sent his son to save and teach mankind.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
It seems like everyone has their own interpretation of it?

There are variances, but when it comes down to it, one must read and understand what is written.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
There are catholics, protestants, jehovas witnesses, fundamental Christians, Mormons etc.

Out of the catagories above, I've heard Jehovas Witnesses and Mormons 'add' things not written according to the Old and New Testament.
Again, the qualifiers of salvation should not deviate from John 3:16, else is not Christianity.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
The bible itself has been revised so many times by the church. Whose religion is it?

This is a thread on it's own. I'll edit this and include it as soon as I find it. My claim is it has not been re-written, though translated once and includes only the important content.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Where does Jesus figure in all of this mess?

Isaiah and Zechariah (Old Testament), Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and his message follows thereafter. I'm sure there's more but that's the best I have for now. Jesus is the saviour and teacher. My job is to point back up to God, the things Jesus said, and help others.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Where is the sense in this nonsense?

It's a lot to take in and seems surreal that these things happen. But understanding the 'why' of it all, the reasoning tends to click.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Tell me if this is true or false: At death, god judges you, and sends you to either heaven or hell.

At death, if you are not saved, then yes, God judges you and sends you to either heaven or hell. The judgement from what I understand is very harsh. I have verses to back-up if you'd like me to provide.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
According to the Roman Catholic church, purgatory is a place of suffering to expiate venial sins. And limbo is a place of unbaptized souls and a place of those who lived before the coming of christ. In other words it's more nonsense.

I'll agree with you on this point. The reasoning for having a purgatory or limbo doesn't make sense to me, nor can I find it in the Bible.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Isn't it very conveniant for you; that you can rid of your sins by simplying bathing in water that the church calls holy.

I don't believe this is true.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
By accepting Jesus as gods son.

That's it! That's the one!

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
By saying x number of hellmarys.

Interesting choice of words. I think it's called Hail Mary's, but no, don't see what the purpose of that would be nor find it in the Bible.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Yet, according to another book you would?

What do you mean? Sorry if I caused confusion, I use Book interchangably from Bible.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I gave you an example of how your reaction was not unlike the reaction Jesus received when he said he was the son of god and god. More later:

Fair enough, I guess people haven't changed over 2,000 years. Although, I feel the difference is his claim was true.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I was not quoting Jesus. I was allowing Jesus to speak through me. I am god. I am the son of God. I am Jesus. I am the way. I am the light. I am the truth. You will only reach God through me.

That's funny, I ask God to speak through me too, yet what we're saying to each other conflicts. The truth cannot conflict. Here's what I say: I am not Jesus.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
If I said this in front of the Roman catholic church. I would be first ridiculed, then condemned and then punished - just like Jesus.

Perhaps, but your death would not be the salvation of mankind. I too am awaiting persecution at some time. It's nearly inevitable when you talk about helping people find their place in eternity. My death will not bring salvation to mankind because it a has already happened and he has already been resurrected.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
This is what you and your church have not understood about Jesus's teachings. You have completely missed the point. What have you learned about Jesus, if you emulate the same thinking that lead to his crufixion? Nothing.

I would be so honored to be the one to save all of mankind through my death and accend to heaven, but that's not something that's going to happen because it already has, nor is it necessary, nor am I conceived of God, nor am I without a multitude of sins, nor nor nor....

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
You belittle god yourself by limiting the unlimited. You render god senseless by making sense of him. You render him powerless by physicalizing and mortalizing him. You separate him from his creation.

I cannot explain away God. I can come to best fit conclussions based on what I've read if it isn't spelled out in black and white. Most of the time though, if it is not spelled out, I try not to shove my opinions into the matter. God is not physical in a way we can understand it, nor mortal. Hence why a lot of people think Christians are looney because as they know it a person cannot be 'half-God', perform miracles, die and be resurrected for eternity.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Do you really think the human concepts of procreation apply to God?

I'm pretty sure they do not. I cannot explain physically what happened between the Holy Spirit and Mary. I'm not concerned about 'how', I'm concerned about 'why'. I get my answer in the following chapters.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Do you think God is involved in human politics?

I doubt it. There was a lot of talk about His kingdom not being of this earth so I'm not sure why politics would concern him.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Do you seriously think he has a son?

Yes.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
If Jesus is gods son? Then who are we?

His creation.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
How can we be the children of god, if Jesus himself is gods son?

We are treated as his children because of the strength of his love.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Which is the truth? Are we the children of god? Or is Jesus the son of god?

Jesus is the son of God.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
What was Jesus? Mortal.

I disagree.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Who are we? Mortal.

We can choose to receive eternal life by accepting him and his son.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
If Jesus is the son of god, then so are we.

How do you figure? Was there a prophesy I missed about you coming and being the light of the world who will save all of mankind? Did you have a virgin mother who was conceived by the Holy Spirit?

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
If Jesus is god, then so are we. And that is what Jesus taught. And that is what I learnt.

What verse?

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
So try this next time you commit a sin "I accept God and I accept that I am his son" because that is the way; the truth; the light; and how you can get to god. "Jesus" separates you from god.

I will not tell God something that's not true, nor would I deny Jesus his place as Son of God. I dial direct when I talk to God, I don't call Jesus and ask him to connect me.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
You are a part of him. In the same way your parents are a part of you. You are both the son of god and god. You cannot make sense of god. You can only know it. All that is - is god. You are god. All physical realities are dualities, meaning, each is relative to the other, each is separated from the other. In the reality of god - there is no duality -- there is no separation -- we are one with him.

Perhaps again someday this may be true, I don't know, we'll see, but as for now we are all here on this earth, not dwelling with God.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
This makes more sense than the nonsense you are taught by church of humans beings. All there is - is spirituality - and spirituality is the truth that you are a soul - a part that makes the whole, the supreme soul and light, that we call god. You exist as everything at the same time. There is no space and there is no time ------- and there is NO sin. The sin is what you create in your mind. And just as easily expiate with your mind. It's not the holy water. It's not accepting god or Jesus. It's not saying x number of Hellmarys --- It's your mind. And the hell and heavens are in your mind too. You judge yourself.

I think this is where we have a massive divergence.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
You know Hilter went to heaven(If you did not think I was in league with the devil; think again) Because he did not actually sin. The people sinned for him. All he did was talk. And in his mind there were no sins to cleanse.

From what I understand he did have an early aged background involving hearing the truth about God and chose not to follow that path. To say he didn't know about God would be historically inaccurate.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Accept yourself as god, and your reality as your universe and your mind as it's cause. If you cannot accept that, then accept it through me. Or will it take for me to be crucified before a huge crowd of *insert religions or religions* before you accept me as your saviour? Please, because you know what. I am the modern Jesus. I say screw that.

I'd say you may have a case if you and Jesus did not have conflicting information and reasoning.

saint4god,

When do you know the truth has been spoken? What does the truth feel like. Do you know the vibration of truth?

Who is mortal? They are mortal who are perishable and incarnate. They are mortal who are physical. We are physical, perishable and incarnate at this moment of our being.

Jesus, as depicted in his moment of incarnation was mortal. He was perishable and so he did perish. He ate, drank and breathed like all of us. He was made of flesh and bones and so was he reduced to flesh and bones. He had blood and so it was spilt.

Truth: Jesus was Mortal

Who was Jesus? He was a born of a virgin birth. He was the son of god. He was a saviour of mankind.

Who says this? The church. Let's suppose it was true, how do you know with certainty that Jesus was saying he was the only son of god?

Truth: The existence of the Jesus of Christianity can only be validated through the heresay of the church. The same church which by itself is run by men.

Who are you and where do you stand according to your religion? In the cosmic hierarchy: You are lower than God. You are lower than Jesus. You are lower than archangels. You are lower than the angels. You are lower than the pope. You are lower than the head of church. You are lower than the priests. You are lower than baptized men. Know thy place oh mortal being.

Truth: You will never reach the heights of divinity through Christianity and will always have to settle for less. You will never break free of desire for there will always be something to be desired.

Ask yourself: isn't the kingdom of god too much like the kingdoms of men? Isn't it the men that run and control the church? Isn't it the men that have organized and proliferated the religion of Christianity?

Truth: The kingdom of god is like the kingdon of men - because it is men who have written it

What is the nature of God? God judges men according to their sins and then sends them to heaven or hell accordingly. Sin is that, that does not conform to gods will.

Ask yourself: Isn't the nature of god too much like the nature of the state run by men. Isn't it men that run and control the church? Isn't it men that have organized and proliferated the religion of Christianity?

Truth: The nature of God is like the nature of the state run by men - because it is men who have written it.

So how can it be God's truth if it is a religion created by men to control men?

Truth: Because the Church says so.

What you do not know is what you believe in. And that is why you are not the way, the light, and the truth. And that is why I am. You believe in the truths and divinity of others. I believe in the truths and divinity of the self. I share truths with you that are universal and that you can know and verify and make your own.

Verify: I am
Verify: There is
Verify: I am a part of all that there is
Verify: I am one with all that there is
Verify: There is no separation
Verify: I think
Verify: All begins and ends with thought
Verify: I feel
Verify: All that is real is love
Verify: All that is not real is fear
Verify: There is nothing real to fear
Verify: I know

These are my 12 truths(I have more) and unlike the truths of your church, they make sense. They make sense because they are gods truths. Can you fault god's truths? Recognize and accept them, know them and understand them.

[edit on 8-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

This may be a silly question but, if you believe that jesus died for our sins, whether or not we believed in him, how is being an athiest automatically going to stop you from getting into heaven, if there is one? Does this mean buddhists, muslims and hindus don't get to go either? The main guidelines for entrance don't seem that out of reach for the average person, they're common sense. So, if there is a heaven, and someone that doesn't believe in a god lives a good life, how is belief going to matter one way or another? Either you meet the standards, or you don't.

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I bet athiests tend to be more humane.

They see another human being as the same as they are and consider them that way.

I think each person's perspective/experience is just as valid as any other or my own.

Religious people look at others as being subjects of God or not without any regard for them as actual living human beings. They usually consider that too 'indulgent' to think of someone else's feelings, perspective and ideas. Religion gives the believer permission to be religiously tyrannical and often completely inhuman to believers and non-believers alike.

Isn't life about feelings, thoughts and ideas as well as actions? Machines act without feelings, thoughts or ideas, only programming. Are you programmed for God?

If believing in God means a loss of one's humanity, I never want to be religious, I wasn't brought up that way.
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Originally posted by slank
I bet athiests tend to be more humane.
They see another human being as the same as they are and consider them that way.

It is generalisations like this that lead to "misconceptions about the athiest". I have found a very large number of athiests do not "see another human being as the same as they are and consider them that way". They consider someone a fool for believing in religion. Even on these forums.