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Originally posted by Alec Eiffel
Indigo Child, im just curious as to why you think atheism is destroying American morals and society? 90% of Americans are theists. What is atheism doing that theism isnt?
Originally posted by gps777
Being Atheist does`nt automatically suggest your grossly immoral criminal etc,if you are atheist and half decent would only suggest to me your upbringing over generations had Godly teaching only to slowly wean away from what gave you your decencies,i`m also sure alot of atheists would simply abide by the law not killing stealing etc which would keep them out of jail or mental institutions,and still they dont realize where those laws originated.I'm all so sure all atheists satanists would disagree
Originally posted by saint4God
These things can lead you down stray paths though. Following instinct, as one example, can lead to a lot of harm to others or yourself later on.
Hm, interesting. Faith in something you cannot prove exists...
Originally posted by riley
I don't know why it has been corrupted so badly. Even on this thread people have quoted Jesus [for moral athority I assume] and have spewed biggotry in the same posts. It perplexes me that they can't even see their own hypocricy.
Yes, we should all be blowing the whistle when we see this.
To get me out of the way, to keep me silent, to get my money, to get my spouse, to get my position at work. You name it, I've seen it.
Originally posted by riley
Hmm.. it's quality of life that counts.. not quantity. (edited for spelling - s4G)
Many people find that when they have accumiliated everything the TV and magazines tell them they should want.. they realsie they didn't want it in the first place and feel empty. Most people are after fulfillment I guess but they don't spend enough time getting to know who they truly are.
If only others followed your example... Interesting that Jesus says the same thing Matthew 6:19 and other places.
Would you give me $1000 and trust me to return it in a week?
Originally posted by TPL
For Saint4God.
I believe that marriage should not be treated lighty. Far too many times have i seen people get married only to divorce months later. I'm not sure why i feel this way. It just seems wrong to waste all that effort when the marriage ends within months (or in Britney Spears case hours) and it also devalues marriage that are strong and long lasting in the eyes of society.
I disapprove of adultery. I don't classify sex before marriage as adultery as some do, but one partner in a relationship or marriage being unfaithful can only lead to anger and heartbreak.
[edit on 5-1-2005 by TPL]
Originally posted by riley
Originally posted by saint4God
These things can lead you down stray paths though. Following instinct, as one example, can lead to a lot of harm to others or yourself later on.
Yes.. but thats why choices are made. Instinct.. logic.. and established ethics [probably from childhood] all have a say.. it's good to try and imagine where the choices may lead before making them. I try to make choices that are not going to lead me or create harmful consequences [for myself and others].. hopefully the results are positive.
Originally posted by riley
I use a combination of emotion, logic, intinct [animal], inuition, empathy and compassion to make decisons. In saying that though I think some people are either predisposed to being nice or nasty- which is why they deliberately interpite things like the bible to cater to it.
I'm not a believer so what I say [as is evident] has little bearing on christians who behave immorally [though I'd still say it!]..
Originally posted by riley
I think, as a believer your voice carries more weight with them and I respect the fact that you are willing to try make them re-access their behaviour.
Originally posted by riley
Yeah.. I've been through that. Seems to be alot of jealousy and the need for instant gratification at the heart of it. If they admire something someone else has.. instead of creating it for themselves they just try take it from someone else. Problem is if it's not really theirs they'll never really have it. I try and keep these people out of my life.. seems to be working do far..
Originally posted by riley
If only others followed your example... Interesting that Jesus says the same thing Matthew 6:19 and other places.
What can I say? The man was a great philosopher.
Originally posted by riley
Would you give me $1000 and trust me to return it in a week?
But that gesture would indicate that I don't have faith in you!
"teach a man to fish" and all..
Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Well, it is based in fact. I am not going debate the obvious with you. Not only have I recounted a fact to you. I have also explained the psychology.
And no, an atheist is not someone who takes scientific fact above all - that's a scientist. An atheist is someone who does not believe in God. At least know what you're talking about.
You're single minded approach, which is now in infamy after two threads,
I don't see you growing as a person.
It's been a few months apart that we had this same debate and all your points were refuted.
You are still regurgitating the same.
How many priests molest childs? I can assure you much less than atheists do.
An ant could be self-aware, but what is their purpose of existence, to work or be treaded upon? There is no difference in the grande scheme of things. As I said you are nothing more but a fluctuation in space-time. It makes no difference whether you existed or not.
If it makes no difference whether you existed or not, then again; you get the freedom to do whatever you want.
Who cares about morals and who cares about the value of life? We are still talking about morals here.
Originally posted by saint4God
I try to make choices that are not going to lead me or create harmful consequences [for myself and others].. hopefully the results are positive.
Hope? Also interesting...
I'm not a believer so what I say [as is evident] has little bearing on christians who behave immorally [though I'd still say it!]..
WHAT?! That's totally not cool! If they can't see the message because of their own discrimination of the messenger, then they are blind to wisdom.
Perhaps they just have one less reason for them to fight me or they cannot find any 'ammo' on hand to fire back with *shrug*. My hope though they see I'm trying to help not hurt as encouraged by doctrine.
Coveting, stealing and the like. I know how you feel and used to do the same, but one bit of wisdom the Book has asked me to employ is to not shy away from these people. Rather, I'm to work with them to help them see what it is they are doing. It's hard work! All in time I guess. The rewards though, are plenty and priceless.
LOL! Touche'! Careful, I may take you up on that offer.
My point was more of --> It's a test of faith. If you'd not trust a person with something as uselessly material as money, how on earth could you trust them with something so important as make right decisions? Just a thought really.
So, teacher of financial gains, what do you have faith in me to do/say/be/think?
Originally posted by Alec Eiffel
Well, I disagree with a few things. Materialism and hedonism are inherently Nhilistic, because Atheism makes no claim of any kind on how one should live their life.
Originally posted by riley
The odds are better than they used to be. I think I should start choosing my words my carefully eh?
Originally posted by riley
It depends on how they naturally percieve the world. Knowledge is not wisdom.. they can know the bible back to front and sideways yet still not get the message. What is the point of them becoming and calling themselves christian then? People only hear what they want to hear.
Originally posted by riley
They wouldn't attack 'their own'.. but I don't think they'd be too happy [the pretenders not practicing christians] as some doctrine [OT] justifies their hate. Keep vigilant though. Christ's message was love.. I can't flaw encouraging it.
Originally posted by riley
I used to be like that. It nearly killed me..
Originally posted by riley
I do still let broken people into my life.. but only ones that want to be helped and that aren't fixed on draining the life out of me.. others.. they are emotional vampires and there are people that depend on me already [including me] and that will actually appreciate the help.
Originally posted by riley
I do not have blind faith in humanity.. but I do believe we have alot of potential. I guess it's 'better the devil you know'- [just a saying- not talking about orhinal sin etc.] believer or not everyone seems to have comparable ethics so relgion does not ensure they make the 'right' decisions. All I have to do is make the right decisions for myself.. and take their moral unpredictability into account.
Originally posted by riley
So, teacher of financial gains, what do you have faith in me to do/say/be/think?
Don't eat out.
Wow are you a fine example of tolerence! I know what I'm talking about.. you don't agree with my views so you start with the insults. Indigo Child.. most athiests do not believe in god because to them it is illogical.. this logic is also reasoned with scientific fact.
The whole point of the thread was to dispell the myth that athiests are immoral. Obviously other athiests agree with me.. and we really are the only ones that can answer the question.. and the reason I posted in the first place was to answer it.
You no doubt make the assumption that we MUST immoral because of how you would feel and be if you did not have your faith. You have faith in god.. I have faith in humanity.
Infamy? Oh you mean the other thread where you said that you are going to be one of the 'chosen ones' to lead all us lost heathens to spriritual enlightenment after judgement day? That was months ago.. and we were NOT talking about athiests specifically.. we were talking about 'indgio children' and how you think they [you] are going to save humanity and guide them into the golden age. My view was you're being a patronising git belittiling anyone who wasn't up to 'your' standard of spirituality.
Man are you full of it. How can you make that judgement if you are not actually in my life?
No. I gave up and have avoided you as our opinions clash and didn't want any further antagoism. That worked really well.
I did not invite you into this thread.. and yet I'm hearing the same stuff you spouted last time. I am entitled to my opinion.. you've heared it already.. most haven't so don't read it if it bothers you.
And you actually have stats on this do you? I doubt there would be any difference between theists and atheits doing this.. and I suspect many priest who are pedos become them to gain access to children.. or at least take advantage of the 'opportunity'.
Obviously having god in their lives has not prevented them from doing this.
I'm aware of my own existance and that is enough for me.. it may not be enough for you but thats why you are a believer and I am not.
Again you are assuming I must want things that are immoral.. that may be your default position but it is not mine. I like to try and do positive things to make a more positive world.. thats not immoral.. it is just not offically sanctioned by your god.
I'm actually in awe of life [all life- and the universe that gave rise to it] and great respect for it. It's amazing to me and I believe it should be nurtured.
I will not be answering your posts anymore if they continue to be negative and patronising.
Originally posted by Indigo_Child
No, actually we were discussing your atheism, anti-religious and dogmatic thoughts, that still remain the same after two threads
Not only that, but despite how much me and Lucid Lunacy told you that we do not subscribe to the Christian god,
you still kept on deriding our beliefs in god with the same misguided and single-minded anti-christian rhetoric.
You said you grow as a person? That is a big joke.
Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Not only that, but despite how much me and Lucid Lunacy told you that we do not subscribe to the Christian god...
Originally posted by iori_komei
the origonal reason that we dont kill or rape, is because it efects are propagation, if you kill you are diminishing your species, if you rape there is a less likely chance someone will want to be with you.
Originally posted by riley
AGAIN I didn't create this thread to condemn religion.. that is your own interpitation. I was trying to dispell myths.. and yes they are myths as many people immediately assume a person without a god has no morals. I felt it was an important issue as I am sick of people telling me I am evil because I do not believe in god. The point of my thread was not to put christians down.. yet a few christians attacked me for it..
st4god did not and he does seems to understand and appreciate my point of view.
Yet you have no problem putting people down because they don't believe in god. Sounds slightly biggoted to me.
No. You are entitled to your beliefs.. and so am I. So you say that you don't assume I am immoral.. yet have already branded all athiests immoral.
Thats a pretty disgusting statement considering you haven't met me. You call yourself enlightened yet are presumptious enough to make an accessment of an entire person on the other side of the planet that you know nothing about. You have no idea of the personal struggles and achievements I have gone through.. you wouldn't know my gender, age, social class, education, family situation.. all you have are your assumptions and a superiority complex that makes them ALL 'true'.. and which negates everyone else perceptions.
I will not to discuss this further with you.. and no it's not because I'm 'not up for the challenge' or want to run away from an intellectual debate.. my intelligence is fine.. I just don't want to recieve anymore venom and negativelty from you.