Indigo Child, im just curious as to why you think atheism is destroying American morals and society? 90% of Americans are theists. What is atheism doing that theism isnt?

The idea that atheists have no real morals because they don't worry about punishment is completely unfounded. I do what I think is right for the good of everyone from the good in me. Apparently, you're saying you do good out of fear of eternal punishment. Which one seems more morally sound?

For Saint4God.

I believe that marriage should not be treated lighty. Far too many times have i seen people get married only to divorce months later. I'm not sure why i feel this way. It just seems wrong to waste all that effort when the marriage ends within months (or in Britney Spears case hours) and it also devalues marriage that are strong and long lasting in the eyes of society.

I disapprove of adultery. I don't classify sex before marriage as adultery as some do, but one partner in a relationship or marriage being unfaithful can only lead to anger and heartbreak.

[edit on 5-1-2005 by TPL]

Originally posted by Alec Eiffel
Indigo Child, im just curious as to why you think atheism is destroying American morals and society? 90% of Americans are theists. What is atheism doing that theism isnt?

You don't understand. The predominant global culture is westernism, which is materialist, hedonistic and ego-centric. This is contrary to the ideals of theism that emphasise morals and god-centered living. It is the culture that is atheist.

Example: You can be a part of a religion, but if you do not practice it, then it nothing more than a labal. Materialism and hedonism are inherently atheistic, by the very nature, that they are the opposite of spirituality.

I would highly doubt the 90% of the theists in America actually follow the good of their faiths. If you looks at the kind of debauchery in western society. Further, I do not actually agree with Christianity, that comprises the bulk of that 90%. Their god is judgemental, punishing and tyrannical and controls his children with fear. I think it is as bad as atheism.

[edit on 5-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Well, I disagree with a few things. Materialism and hedonism are inherently Nhilistic, because Atheism makes no claim of any kind on how one should live their life. So, I would agree with you if you said that our culture acts Nhilistic. All semantics aside, why do you think so badly of atheism? What has given you the impression that we are materialist (im assuming you are reffering to the pursuit of material objects with no thought for others, and not scientific materialism) ego-centric and hedonistic? I can understand why you would think so lowly of nhilists, but do you really think that the majority of atheists are nhilistic? How many atheists have you personally met to make such a generalization?

Being Atheist does`nt automatically suggest your grossly immoral criminal etc,if you are atheist and half decent would only suggest to me your upbringing over generations had Godly teaching only to slowly wean away from what gave you your decencies,i`m also sure alot of atheists would simply abide by the law not killing stealing etc which would keep them out of jail or mental institutions,and still they dont realize where those laws originated.I'm all so sure all atheists satanists would disagree

Originally posted by gps777
Being Atheist does`nt automatically suggest your grossly immoral criminal etc,if you are atheist and half decent would only suggest to me your upbringing over generations had Godly teaching only to slowly wean away from what gave you your decencies,i`m also sure alot of atheists would simply abide by the law not killing stealing etc which would keep them out of jail or mental institutions,and still they dont realize where those laws originated.I'm all so sure all atheists satanists would disagree

Can you tell me where these laws originate from? Let me guess...your answer is God? Am I right?

Originally posted by saint4God
These things can lead you down stray paths though. Following instinct, as one example, can lead to a lot of harm to others or yourself later on.

Yes.. but thats why choices are made. Instinct.. logic.. and established ethics [probably from childhood] all have a say.. it's good to try and imagine where the choices may lead before making them. I try to make choices that are not going to lead me or create harmful consequences [for myself and others].. hopefully the results are positive. I use a combination of emotion, logic, intinct [animal], inuition, empathy and compassion to make decisons. In saying that though I think some people are either predisposed to being nice or nasty- which is why they deliberately interpite things like the bible to cater to it.

Hm, interesting. Faith in something you cannot prove exists...

Okay.. I have confidence in myself.

Originally posted by riley
I don't know why it has been corrupted so badly. Even on this thread people have quoted Jesus [for moral athority I assume] and have spewed biggotry in the same posts. It perplexes me that they can't even see their own hypocricy.

Yes, we should all be blowing the whistle when we see this.

I'm sure they'd be able to justify themselves no matter what. At least it's obvious to you though and you acknowledge it. I'm not a believer so what I say [as is evident] has little bearing on christians who behave immorally [though I'd still say it!].. I think, as a believer your voice carries more weight with them and I respect the fact that you are willing to try make them re-access their behaviour.

To get me out of the way, to keep me silent, to get my money, to get my spouse, to get my position at work. You name it, I've seen it.

Yeah.. I've been through that. Seems to be alot of jealousy and the need for instant gratification at the heart of it. If they admire something someone else has.. instead of creating it for themselves they just try take it from someone else. Problem is if it's not really theirs they'll never really have it. I try and keep these people out of my life.. seems to be working do far..

Originally posted by riley
Hmm.. it's quality of life that counts.. not quantity. (edited for spelling - s4G)
Many people find that when they have accumiliated everything the TV and magazines tell them they should want.. they realsie they didn't want it in the first place and feel empty. Most people are after fulfillment I guess but they don't spend enough time getting to know who they truly are.

If only others followed your example... Interesting that Jesus says the same thing Matthew 6:19 and other places.

What can I say? The man was a great philosopher.
[I was going to say great minds think alike but I didn't want to push my luck ].

Would you give me $1000 and trust me to return it in a week?

But that gesture would indicate that I don't have faith in you!
"teach a man to fish" and all..

[edit on 6-1-2005 by riley]

Originally posted by TPL
For Saint4God.

I believe that marriage should not be treated lighty. Far too many times have i seen people get married only to divorce months later. I'm not sure why i feel this way. It just seems wrong to waste all that effort when the marriage ends within months (or in Britney Spears case hours) and it also devalues marriage that are strong and long lasting in the eyes of society.

I disapprove of adultery. I don't classify sex before marriage as adultery as some do, but one partner in a relationship or marriage being unfaithful can only lead to anger and heartbreak.

[edit on 5-1-2005 by TPL]

I'm with ya. So here is an example of agreement. What kind of things do you disagree with?

Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by saint4God
These things can lead you down stray paths though. Following instinct, as one example, can lead to a lot of harm to others or yourself later on.

Yes.. but thats why choices are made. Instinct.. logic.. and established ethics [probably from childhood] all have a say.. it's good to try and imagine where the choices may lead before making them. I try to make choices that are not going to lead me or create harmful consequences [for myself and others].. hopefully the results are positive.

Hope? Also interesting...

Originally posted by riley
I use a combination of emotion, logic, intinct [animal], inuition, empathy and compassion to make decisons. In saying that though I think some people are either predisposed to being nice or nasty- which is why they deliberately interpite things like the bible to cater to it.

I'm not a believer so what I say [as is evident] has little bearing on christians who behave immorally [though I'd still say it!]..

WHAT?! That's totally not cool! If they can't see the message because of their own discrimination of the messenger, then they are blind to wisdom.

Originally posted by riley
I think, as a believer your voice carries more weight with them and I respect the fact that you are willing to try make them re-access their behaviour.

Perhaps they just have one less reason for them to fight me or they cannot find any 'ammo' on hand to fire back with *shrug*. My hope is they see I'm trying to help not hurt as encouraged by doctrine.

Originally posted by riley
Yeah.. I've been through that. Seems to be alot of jealousy and the need for instant gratification at the heart of it. If they admire something someone else has.. instead of creating it for themselves they just try take it from someone else. Problem is if it's not really theirs they'll never really have it. I try and keep these people out of my life.. seems to be working do far..

Coveting, stealing and the like. I know how you feel and used to do the same, but one bit of wisdom the Book has asked me to employ is to not shy away from these people. Rather, I'm to work with them to help them see what it is they are doing. It's hard work! All in time I guess. The rewards though, are plenty and priceless.

Originally posted by riley

If only others followed your example... Interesting that Jesus says the same thing Matthew 6:19 and other places.

What can I say? The man was a great philosopher.

Well, it's a start I suppose.

Originally posted by riley

Would you give me $1000 and trust me to return it in a week?

But that gesture would indicate that I don't have faith in you!
"teach a man to fish" and all..

LOL! Touche'! Careful, I may take you up on that offer.
My point was more of --> It's a test of faith. If you'd not trust a person with something as uselessly material as money, how on earth could you trust them with something so important as make right decisions? Just a thought really.

So, teacher of financial gains, what do you have faith in me to do/say/be/think?


[edit on 6-1-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Well, it is based in fact. I am not going debate the obvious with you. Not only have I recounted a fact to you. I have also explained the psychology.

And no, an atheist is not someone who takes scientific fact above all - that's a scientist. An atheist is someone who does not believe in God. At least know what you're talking about.

Wow are you a fine example of tolerence! I know what I'm talking about.. you don't agree with my views so you start with the insults. Indigo Child.. most athiests do not believe in god because to them it is illogical.. this logic is also reasoned with scientific fact.
The whole point of the thread was to dispell the myth that athiests are immoral. Obviously other athiests agree with me.. and we really are the only ones that can answer the question.. and the reason I posted in the first place was to answer it.
You no doubt make the assumption that we MUST immoral because of how you would feel and be if you did not have your faith. You have faith in god.. I have faith in humanity.

You're single minded approach, which is now in infamy after two threads,

Infamy? Oh you mean the other thread where you said that you are going to be one of the 'chosen ones' to lead all us lost heathens to spriritual enlightenment after judgement day? That was months ago.. and we were NOT talking about athiests specifically.. we were talking about 'indgio children' and how you think they [you] are going to save humanity and guide them into the golden age. My view was you're being a patronising git belittiling anyone who wasn't up to 'your' standard of spirituality.

I don't see you growing as a person.

Man are you full of it. How can you make that judgement if you are not actually in my life?

It's been a few months apart that we had this same debate and all your points were refuted.

No. I gave up and have avoided you as our opinions clash and didn't want any further antagoism. That worked really well.

You are still regurgitating the same.

I did not invite you into this thread.. and yet I'm hearing the same stuff you spouted last time. I am entitled to my opinion.. you've heared it already.. most haven't so don't read it if it bothers you.

How many priests molest childs? I can assure you much less than atheists do.

And you actually have stats on this do you? I doubt there would be any difference between theists and atheits doing this.. and I suspect many priest who are pedos become them to gain access to children.. or at least take advantage of the 'opportunity'.
Obviously having god in their lives has not prevented them from doing this.

An ant could be self-aware, but what is their purpose of existence, to work or be treaded upon? There is no difference in the grande scheme of things. As I said you are nothing more but a fluctuation in space-time. It makes no difference whether you existed or not.

I'm aware of my own existance and that is enough for me.. it may not be enough for you but thats why you are a believer and I am not.

If it makes no difference whether you existed or not, then again; you get the freedom to do whatever you want.

Again you are assuming I must want things that are immoral.. that may be your default position but it is not mine. I like to try and do positive things to make a more positive world.. thats not immoral.. it is just not offically sanctioned by your god.

Who cares about morals and who cares about the value of life? We are still talking about morals here.

I'm actually in awe of life [all life- and the universe that gave rise to it] and great respect for it. It's amazing to me and I believe it should be nurtured.

I will not be answering your posts anymore if they continue to be negative and patronising.

Originally posted by saint4God
I try to make choices that are not going to lead me or create harmful consequences [for myself and others].. hopefully the results are positive.

Hope? Also interesting...

The odds are better than they used to be. I think I should start choosing my words my carefully eh?

I'm not a believer so what I say [as is evident] has little bearing on christians who behave immorally [though I'd still say it!]..

WHAT?! That's totally not cool! If they can't see the message because of their own discrimination of the messenger, then they are blind to wisdom.

It depends on how they naturally percieve the world. Knowledge is not wisdom.. they can know the bible back to front and sideways yet still not get the message. What is the point of them becoming and calling themselves christian then? People only hear what they want to hear.

Perhaps they just have one less reason for them to fight me or they cannot find any 'ammo' on hand to fire back with *shrug*. My hope though they see I'm trying to help not hurt as encouraged by doctrine.

They wouldn't attack 'their own'.. but I don't think they'd be too happy [the pretenders not practicing christians] as some doctrine [OT] justifies their hate. Keep vigilant though. Christ's message was love.. I can't flaw encouraging it.

Coveting, stealing and the like. I know how you feel and used to do the same, but one bit of wisdom the Book has asked me to employ is to not shy away from these people. Rather, I'm to work with them to help them see what it is they are doing. It's hard work! All in time I guess. The rewards though, are plenty and priceless.

I used to be like that. It nearly killed me.. I do still let broken people into my life.. but only ones that want to be helped and that aren't fixed on draining the life out of me.. others.. they are emotional vampires and there are people that depend on me already [including me] and that will actually appreciate the help.

LOL! Touche'! Careful, I may take you up on that offer.
My point was more of --> It's a test of faith. If you'd not trust a person with something as uselessly material as money, how on earth could you trust them with something so important as make right decisions? Just a thought really.

I do not have blind faith in humanity.. but I do believe we have alot of potential. I guess it's 'better the devil you know'- [just a saying- not talking about orhinal sin etc.] believer or not everyone seems to have comparable ethics so relgion does not ensure they make the 'right' decisions. All I have to do is make the right decisions for myself.. and take their moral unpredictability into account.

So, teacher of financial gains, what do you have faith in me to do/say/be/think?

Don't eat out.

Originally posted by Alec Eiffel
Well, I disagree with a few things. Materialism and hedonism are inherently Nhilistic, because Atheism makes no claim of any kind on how one should live their life.

Umm, no. Nihilism, a philosophy propounded by Nietzche, is that that we do not really exist and there is no purpose to life. While Materialism and Hedonism are the opposite, and do suppose a purpose; material aquisition and pleasure seeking, respectively.

Atheism is not a religion. There is no doctrine. It is merely a belief in the non existence of god or gods(godlessness) this also often includes the soul. Now precluding the existence of god; leads to the following:

1. No accountability for actions in life
2. No greater purpose
3. Impermanance
4. Arbitrary morals and ethics
5. Social dependence and conformity(herd psychology)
6. Self-absorbtion

As I said in a prior post, it is analogous to a child being born without parents. Atheism is the underlying mental cause of philosophies like materialism, ego-centicism and hedonism, because it facilitates them. In fact in the dictionary atheism is synonymous with immorality.

Now, if we actually do discuss the semantics. A person who claims to believe in god, yet is materialist, ego-centric and hedonist, is practicing the beliefs of atheism - godless living.

As I said, as soon as there is definite proof of god, the world would turn on it's head.

I am generalizing Atheists according to compartive psychology. Also, because I have a lot of insight into Atheism and also Nihilism, as I once practiced them. I understand the root causes and the effects of these beliefs and have also researched them.

After I became a spiritualist, which was simplying overhauling my belief systems, I had a more positive, optimistic and buoyant outlook on life, more integrity, more compassion and empathy and tolerance and a sense of greater purpose and direction. I had learnt how powerful a single belief can be and how it can completely transform your life.

If you are going to believe in belief systems like Atheism, evolution, survival of the fittest. Then you are going to practice godlesness. It is automatic. In the same way a belief in evolution and survival of the fittest leads to competition and captialism.

This just shows we have not advanced spiritually, because in a spiritual society, we develop by co-operation and sharing.

The root cause is Atheism. As soon as you seperate from god, the supreme light, you fall into darkness. I've been there and done that.

[edit on 6-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by riley
The odds are better than they used to be. I think I should start choosing my words my carefully eh?

Not at all! I like your words. Faith, hope, I'm good for it . It's nice to meet anyone who has a grasp on these concepts. I've met some who thought these words were profanity.

Originally posted by riley
It depends on how they naturally percieve the world. Knowledge is not wisdom.. they can know the bible back to front and sideways yet still not get the message. What is the point of them becoming and calling themselves christian then? People only hear what they want to hear.

Preaching to the choir here. *thinks about this for a moment* *nods* Okay, right.

Originally posted by riley
They wouldn't attack 'their own'.. but I don't think they'd be too happy [the pretenders not practicing christians] as some doctrine [OT] justifies their hate. Keep vigilant though. Christ's message was love.. I can't flaw encouraging it.

Amen! *thinks about this for a moment* *nods* Okay, right.

Originally posted by riley
I used to be like that. It nearly killed me..

It may kill me yet. Even if it does, I need to die trying. The last chapter in the book of my life on earth is yet unwritten so...I guess we'll see.

Originally posted by riley
I do still let broken people into my life.. but only ones that want to be helped and that aren't fixed on draining the life out of me.. others.. they are emotional vampires and there are people that depend on me already [including me] and that will actually appreciate the help.

I see what you're saying. There was a vampire who had drifted away (in part by my lack of my willingness to hang-out) and I felt somewhat responsible/saddened for that. Retrospect I wish I would've done more. I can try to justify it to myself all I want, nothing is more expensive than regret I think.

Originally posted by riley
I do not have blind faith in humanity.. but I do believe we have alot of potential. I guess it's 'better the devil you know'- [just a saying- not talking about orhinal sin etc.] believer or not everyone seems to have comparable ethics so relgion does not ensure they make the 'right' decisions. All I have to do is make the right decisions for myself.. and take their moral unpredictability into account.

Originally posted by riley

So, teacher of financial gains, what do you have faith in me to do/say/be/think?

Don't eat out.

Seriously! Money and Saturated/Trans-fats. I cut fast food a few years ago. In addition to exercise 15 mins. a day, I lost 40 lbs in 8 months. It's a good feeling not being sick and tired anymore. I'm finding I don't think/worry about myself all the time and have been enabled to focus on others. It may sound odd, but it did stregthen my spirit and prepared me for the works God had prepared for me. It's a wild ride these days, I can't even begin to put it into words.

But but, what kind of faith do you have in me? I mean, is it microscopic or something that has to be earned or would you have faith in me even if you just saw me on the street? Or is it only that you have faith I'll be unpredictable and hope it's for the best? Didn't mean to drop a napalm of questions so whichever however you'd like to address is fine.

[edit on 6-1-2005 by saint4God]

Wow are you a fine example of tolerence! I know what I'm talking about.. you don't agree with my views so you start with the insults. Indigo Child.. most athiests do not believe in god because to them it is illogical.. this logic is also reasoned with scientific fact.

The human being is not a logical creature. He is an emotional one. A person who does not believe in god, does not necessarily arrive at this belief through logical deduction or science. They simply do not believe for their own reasons.

The whole point of the thread was to dispell the myth that athiests are immoral. Obviously other athiests agree with me.. and we really are the only ones that can answer the question.. and the reason I posted in the first place was to answer it.

There is no myth that atheists are immoral. In the same way there is no myth that theists are moral. As I said, it would be highly ignorant to say that all atheists/all theists are moral. People are not black and white.

Of course other atheists are going to agree with you. No one is going to call themselves immoral and mean it.

However, there is the truth in the generalization, that the atheism group is immoral. It does not necessarily mean you are immoral.

You no doubt make the assumption that we MUST immoral because of how you would feel and be if you did not have your faith. You have faith in god.. I have faith in humanity.

You should make it a habit of actually reading the other guys posts. I never said you MUST be immoral. I actually said it would be highly ignorant to say that you are simply because you're an atheist.

Infamy? Oh you mean the other thread where you said that you are going to be one of the 'chosen ones' to lead all us lost heathens to spriritual enlightenment after judgement day? That was months ago.. and we were NOT talking about athiests specifically.. we were talking about 'indgio children' and how you think they [you] are going to save humanity and guide them into the golden age. My view was you're being a patronising git belittiling anyone who wasn't up to 'your' standard of spirituality.

No, actually we were discussing your atheism, anti-religious and dogmatic thoughts, that still remain exactly the same after two threads "Is it easier to believe in Aliens or God" and "Indigo Children" Not only that, but despite how much me and Lucid Lunacy told you that we do not subscribe to the Christian god, you still kept on deriding our beliefs in god with the same misguided and single-minded anti-christian rhetoric. Then you did the same in my topic. Now, a few months after, you are still doing the same.

You said you grow as a person? That is a big joke.

Further, I never claimed to be the "chosen one" I said that people with god-centered consciousness will lead the new age and an "Indigo Child" is someone who is a born with a god-centered consciousness.

Man are you full of it. How can you make that judgement if you are not actually in my life?

It's not a judgement. It's an observation.

No. I gave up and have avoided you as our opinions clash and didn't want any further antagoism. That worked really well.

That's also called running away from a debate. You initate the debate, then leave it, when the going gets tough. If you don't have the intelligence to debate. Then don't start one.

I did not invite you into this thread.. and yet I'm hearing the same stuff you spouted last time. I am entitled to my opinion.. you've heared it already.. most haven't so don't read it if it bothers you.

You're not suppose to invite me into this thread

And you actually have stats on this do you? I doubt there would be any difference between theists and atheits doing this.. and I suspect many priest who are pedos become them to gain access to children.. or at least take advantage of the 'opportunity'.
Obviously having god in their lives has not prevented them from doing this.

Well, seeing as you made the point "priests molest children" you should have the stats. However, all you will be able to produce is isolated cases that will not even constitute a percent of pedophilla in society. Go ahead, show us your ignorance.

I'm aware of my own existance and that is enough for me.. it may not be enough for you but thats why you are a believer and I am not.

As I said: ego-centirism.

Again you are assuming I must want things that are immoral.. that may be your default position but it is not mine. I like to try and do positive things to make a more positive world.. thats not immoral.. it is just not offically sanctioned by your god.

No, I am stating a fact that applies to your group. That is, that as there is no accountability and life is impermanant and has as much value, objectively, than anything in the universe. Therefore, there is freedom, do whatever they want. This is the kind of thinking that makes criminals and depression.

I'm actually in awe of life [all life- and the universe that gave rise to it] and great respect for it. It's amazing to me and I believe it should be nurtured.

Good for you.

I will not be answering your posts anymore if they continue to be negative and patronising.

They're not negative and patronising. They are honest and brutal and that is what a debate is about. I am sorry that they hurt your feelings. If you cannot dance; then don't.

[edit on 6-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
No, actually we were discussing your atheism, anti-religious and dogmatic thoughts, that still remain the same after two threads

AGAIN I didn't create this thread to condemn religion.. that is your own interpitation. I was trying to dispell myths.. and yes they are myths as many people immediately assume a person without a god has no morals. I felt it was an important issue as I am sick of people telling me I am evil because I do not believe in god. The point of my thread was not to put christians down.. yet a few christians attacked me for it.. st4god did not and he does seems to understand and appreciate my point of view.

Not only that, but despite how much me and Lucid Lunacy told you that we do not subscribe to the Christian god,

Yet you have no problem putting people down because they don't believe in god. Sounds slightly biggoted to me.

you still kept on deriding our beliefs in god with the same misguided and single-minded anti-christian rhetoric.

No. You are entitled to your beliefs.. and so am I. So you say that you don't assume I am immoral.. yet have already branded all athiests immoral.

You said you grow as a person? That is a big joke.

Thats a pretty disgusting statement considering you haven't met me. You call yourself enlightened yet are presumptious enough to make an accessment of an entire person on the other side of the planet that you know nothing about. You have no idea of the personal struggles and achievements I have gone through.. you wouldn't know my gender, age, social class, education, family situation.. all you have are your assumptions and a superiority complex that makes them ALL 'true'.. and which negates everyone else perceptions. I will not to discuss this further with you.. and no it's not because I'm 'not up for the challenge' or want to run away from an intellectual debate.. my intelligence is fine.. I just don't want to recieve anymore venom and negativelty from you.

1/6th of the population is atheist, that means over 1billion.
There are different sects of Buddhism, some are akin to atheism and some to pagan beliefs, and a few that have qualities of ChristioCatholicism.

Are morals did not origonaly come from the christiocatholic god, they come from the teachings of the older paganesque religions, the origonal reason that we dont kill or rape, is because it efects are propagation, if you kill you are diminishing your species, if you rape there is a less likely chance someone will want to be with you.

My morals stem from what I believe to be right, though the only one I can think of that people have a problem with (no matter what religion, ethnicality, gender, or anything else) is that I believe the good of the many outweigh the needs of the few, an example would be if you had to destroy a city of people of people to save a country of people. In such a situation I would destroy the city.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Not only that, but despite how much me and Lucid Lunacy told you that we do not subscribe to the Christian god...

Oh good, I've been worrying for a little while now. Go Christian God! Wohoo! *cheers*

Originally posted by iori_komei
the origonal reason that we dont kill or rape, is because it efects are propagation, if you kill you are diminishing your species, if you rape there is a less likely chance someone will want to be with you.

I know a horde of Darwinists who'd love to argue that point with you. Hey! Any of you guys around from my Diversity of Life course? C'mon professor, you've gotta be here somewhere...

Originally posted by riley

AGAIN I didn't create this thread to condemn religion.. that is your own interpitation. I was trying to dispell myths.. and yes they are myths as many people immediately assume a person without a god has no morals. I felt it was an important issue as I am sick of people telling me I am evil because I do not believe in god. The point of my thread was not to put christians down.. yet a few christians attacked me for it..
st4god did not and he does seems to understand and appreciate my point of view.

I know you did not create this thread to condemn religion or Christianity. I can actually read. However, you actually did make anti-religious remarks over and over again, that were very stupid and ignorant. Someone has to correct your mistakes. If not god; then me.

Yet you have no problem putting people down because they don't believe in god. Sounds slightly biggoted to me.

Again you evade the fact that you have been consistently and continuously over months, single-minded with your anti-christian rhetoric against religion(the part of the sentence you did not quote) despite the fact that a few have corrected you. I could loosly call that trolling.

That is not even true. I have not put any atheists down. It is my belief that we all find ourselves in our own time. For me to condemn Atheism, would be akin to condemning a child for bad grades. I am not dogmatic and judgemental like yourself.

No. You are entitled to your beliefs.. and so am I. So you say that you don't assume I am immoral.. yet have already branded all athiests immoral.

Do you have an excuse for not being able to read? In case you are short-sighted:

It would be highly ignorant to say all atheists are immoral and all theists are moral. People are not black and white.

Thats a pretty disgusting statement considering you haven't met me. You call yourself enlightened yet are presumptious enough to make an accessment of an entire person on the other side of the planet that you know nothing about. You have no idea of the personal struggles and achievements I have gone through.. you wouldn't know my gender, age, social class, education, family situation.. all you have are your assumptions and a superiority complex that makes them ALL 'true'.. and which negates everyone else perceptions.

I never claimed to know anything about you and I never claimed to judge you. Again, if you can actually read, read my previous post, where I differentiate between observation and judgement.

A judgement is arriving at an opinion or conclusion by consideration and evalation of the situation or person. As I know little about you, I cannot make an conclusion or evalulation either way, what I can do however is make an observation of what you say.

And, considering, that after a few months of discussing the same subject, you made the same ignorant allegations, even though they were refuted and corrected on several occasions. And then hear you say "I grow as a person" is really a big joke.

I will not to discuss this further with you.. and no it's not because I'm 'not up for the challenge' or want to run away from an intellectual debate.. my intelligence is fine.. I just don't want to recieve anymore venom and negativelty from you.

What you don't want to receive is the truth about yourself. Rather than facing it, you run away from it. You can't run forever. Anyway, I can care less if you debate or don't debate, because all I've seen so far is rhetoric and a lot of irrational prejudice.

[edit on 6-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]