Well to be more accurate, lies and slander regarding athiests.

Not believing in god does NOT immediately mean we are immoral.. there may be a few.. but just as many as there are immoral Christians.. moslems, hindues, buddhists etc. We take responsibilty for our own actions and don't palm them off to a mythical devil. Morality is not dependant on the 'god' scaring us into it. There have been several occasions where I have said that I do not believe in god and have instantly been labelled a 'sinner' [immoral] just for not believing. Such assumptions about people's lifestyle's based on lack of faith are ridiculous and insulting. I ask that those who tend to make such judgements step back and reacess their own morality before doing so in future.

There are many other assumptons made.. like telling us we need to be saved.. from what? Hell? Since we don't believe in god there is no biblical hell.. the only risk is our lives going bad and to avoid that we save ourselves.

Can't think of any others atm. If anyone else can.. add to the list.

I hope this post helps create more understanding.. I have faith in human beings.

I understand where you are coming from, but to a Christian/Muslim/etc, you would still be a sinner. The very fact that you don't believe in their Gods would make you so.

I think the term saved (which makes me cringe every time I hear it along with a lot of christian words) refers to being saved by Jesus from original sin....which he gave us in the first place.

Terms that bother me:

"Worship"
"Saved"
"Do you accept the Lord"
"The Lord"

Statement that has been made to me that was bothersome:
"You are in trouble, thats what happens to people who question "the lord" because of science books. Those people don't get "saved" in the end" UGH!!!

Edit; forgot some words:

"Born Again"
"Tithe" (Dont you just love how they preach about giving money!)

I was talking to a woman the other day who was telling me a story. She said that for some reason when she woke up one day she thought she should "tithe" 1000 dollar. (I immediately lost any respect that I had for this person). The problem was that she had bills to pay with that money. She said, "and I had to make a decision, tithe, or pay my bills" WHile she said this she was motioning her hands like she had something in each and was weighing them...up and down.... She decided to tithe. SHe then explained to me how the very next day, "The Lord" sent her more money. She found out she had some inheritance from her mother that she never knew about. I thought this was total BS. I asked her to show us all the letter. About three days later she brought me the letter. No lie...it happened.

Well, turns out that she knew of the inheritance before hand. It was some weird lie that she made up for who knows what reason. I hate. And I mean I hate.

[edit on 1/4/2005 by Seapeople]

I though that the meaning of athiest, was first brought up by the church to distiguish the non-christians from the christians.

Main Entry: athe·ist
Pronunciation: 'A-thE-ist
Function: noun
: one who believes that there is no deity

Later on the term atheist was expanded into anybody that does not believe in any God or Gods.

Originally posted by babloyi
The very fact that you don't believe in their Gods would make you so.

This is what I don't understand.. if I go do charity work every sunday instead of going to church to worship.. and live the life of a saint [well I'm not claiming I do ] .. wouldn't I qualify anyway? Why would their god have a problem with me just making the world a nicer place without being 'told' to do so by doctrine? I'm sure a gods ego could do without my worship.. and I don't undertand why it would be immoral not to [I couldn't force myself to believe anyway]. I really don't mind the diversity of beliefs.. so long as they're based on love and compassion and not condemnation [which seems rare].

Originally posted by Seapeople
Terms that bother me:

"Worship"

-Submission.

"Saved"

-eternal debt and guilt trip.

"Do you accept the Lord"

Yeah- this one gives me the creeps. It's kind of condecending and comes with an inevitable condemnation. 'The lord'.. I'm no-ones servant.. though that does not mean I don't serve the greater good.

Statement that has been made to me that was bothersome:
"You are in trouble, thats what happens to people who question "the lord" because of science books.

Knowledge is power.. religion has tried to make the whole of humanity indebted for giving them life.. science frees them from that obligation.

"Born Again"

Yeah.. people change overnight.. I understand faith can be very important to some.. and can give them direction and hope.. but some don't seem to understand that people can 'see the light' in things other than their chosen god/s.

From my understanding, an athiest is one who does not believe God exists. To stereotype a person's character based on just that is wrong.

Originally posted by riley
Well to be more accurate, lies and slander regarding athiests.

Not believing in god does NOT immediately mean we are immoral..

I can see that. A question does come up though as to what you use as a standard for morality.

Originally posted by riley
there may be a few.. but just as many as there are immoral Christians.. moslems, hindues, buddhists etc.

I would think the tendency would be greater as an athiest, but would not be surprised if not. Again, what does an athiest use to measure morality?

Originally posted by riley
We take responsibilty for our own actions and don't palm them off to a mythical devil.

Christians should be taking responsibility for their actions.

Originally posted by riley
Morality is not dependant on the 'god' scaring us into it.

What scares Christians is being without a loving God, therefore would not want to do that which displeases. Anyone in any relationship should understand this.

Originally posted by riley
There have been several occasions where I have said that I do not believe in god and have instantly been labelled a 'sinner' [immoral] just for not believing.

Newsflash: We're ALL sinners. Sorry if there are any 'holier-than-thou's' out there but you can be as Christian as you want and you'll still a sinner. Difference is hopefully a Christian can see where they are sinning and why.

Originally posted by riley
Such assumptions about people's lifestyle's based on lack of faith are ridiculous and insulting. I ask that those who tend to make such judgements step back and reacess their own morality before doing so in future.

Good point. I think everyone should look into the mirror and see past their shell.

Originally posted by riley
There are many other assumptons made.. like telling us we need to be saved.. from what? Hell? Since we don't believe in god there is no biblical hell.. the only risk is our lives going bad and to avoid that we save ourselves.

How about death? If someone propositioned being saved from death eternal at no cost or risk, is that inviting?

Originally posted by riley
Can't think of any others atm. If anyone else can.. add to the list.

I hope this post helps create more understanding.. I have faith in human beings.

I hope so too. As an ex-agnostic, I can relate to a lot of these points. Careful putting faith into humans, sometimes they turn on you


[edit on 4-1-2005 by saint4God]

The only thing atheists have in common is that they lack a belief in a God or Gods. Other than that, they can believe whatever they want, and still be called atheists. For instance, a person who lacks belief in a Deity can believe in reincarnation and still be classified as an atheist. Some buddhists are atheists, I believe thats how Buddhism was traditionally taught? Feel free to correct me, im not sure. As for me, im an agnostic-atheist. Agnosticism, by definition, everyone is. I could never know for sure if a God does or doesnt exist, but I still lack belief in a God.

Originally posted by marg6043
I though that the meaning of athiest, was first brought up by the church to distiguish the non-christians from the christians.

No, I think the term is derived from the root "theos" (God) with the negative prefix a, literally meaning "without God."

I don't see how one can judge an atheist as being immoral. Most atheists (as far as I know) put a greater value on this life as we don't believe there's an afterlife. I wouldn't want to kill someone because then they'd be dead, it'd be over for them. And I actually think that MAYBE there's some sort of afterlife. Our consciousness ceases to exist but matter and energy don't.

Originally posted by marg6043
I though that the meaning of athiest, was first brought up by the church to distiguish the non-christians from the christians.

Main Entry: athe·ist
Pronunciation: 'A-thE-ist
Function: noun
: one who believes that there is no deity

Later on the term atheist was expanded into anybody that does not believe in any God or Gods.

I believe they called them pagans, or heathens. Atheism has been around longer than the Church, I know that much.

Atheist-Satanist same difference concerning God,Atheist believes and worships himself same as Satan does and wants you to as well,like it or not,Christs sacrifices he made for everyone and his teaching was that so bad and worth your disrespect??each to his own i guess,this sounds like what Christ was referring to when he said,"he that loves his life shall die but he that dies for my sake(born again) will live for eternity in heaven"

No disrespect. Just a lack of evidence and what my own experiences have led me to believe.

Experiment time. Sit in front of a mirror in a quiet room, all alone. Look in the mirror. Look at all the stuff around you. Look at yourself looking at all the stuff around you. Now visualize the infinite, complex universe outside the room.

If you are an Atheist- and your belief is correct- then you are looking at G-d.

And you are doing a very, very poor job of running things, now aren't you.

The good news is, we really all are outside the room, slouching through life just like you. And no, we didn't make It All, either. So you are only part of G-d, and not alone. Your inability to visualize companions into existance is not a problem. The problem is that G-d likes to play dodgeball, and He uses big iron spaceballs. And you are a very small bug on the back of a planetary sized player. So stop speculating about the number of angels on the head of a pin, and get back to work. NASA needs you.

But if you persist in your delusion that You are alone in the Universe, its okay with me. At least you are not peddling 'A Compleat Deescription of Thee Universal Beeing' at my front door.

Originally posted by babloyi
I understand where you are coming from, but to a Christian/Muslim/etc, you would still be a sinner. The very fact that you don't believe in their Gods would make you so.

Why is that so? Even though a person might conduct themselves in a socially acceptable manner and treat others like they don't deserve(I have extended the hand of friendship and conceded what I felt to be trivialities to an irrational human ) the very fact that someone doesn't believe in God makes them a sinner? To me , that illustrates the problem with religion and its purveyance of ignorance, arrogance, and narrow-mindedness. The whole point of religion in the first place is to control the social behaviour of people who allow it.

Also, what is a sinner? To me, it just means that whoever has labeled me as such isn't worth my time. I have no patience for those who label a situation/person and leave it at that....it's all about understanding a situation so as to better and more efficiently produce a progress...

Originally posted by Chakotay
Experiment time. Sit in front of a mirror in a quiet room, all alone. Look in the mirror. Look at all the stuff around you. Look at yourself looking at all the stuff around you. Now visualize the infinite, complex universe outside the room.

If you are an Atheist- and your belief is correct- then you are looking at G-d.

So, universe=god, god=universe? Cool, then its just semantics. It makes conversation a little confusing though. Because most people define God as The Creator, or what have you. So from now on, can you please refer to God as just the universe? No need for extra ill-defined baggage.

Originally posted by Chakotay
But if you persist in your delusion that You are alone in the Universe, its okay with me. At least you are not peddling 'A Compleat Deescription of Thee Universal Beeing' at my front door.

Just because I'm athiest doesn't mean I believe I'm alone in the universe. THere are roughly 6 billion of us on this planet though it's amazing how few of them I can talk to.

Originally posted by gps777
Atheist-Satanist same difference concerning God,Atheist believes and worships himself same as Satan does and wants you to as well...

Heh, I always love this coming from folks, especially Christians. You're something, ergo you're not like us, meaning you're a HORRIBLE person!

Also, point of order... there is generally very little worshiping in athiesm. We don't make graven idols of ourselves, we don't fall to our knees in front fo the mirror. Can't you thiests comprehend the absence of a God figure? The altar is empty. There is nothing to worship. In the universe, there are only pawns on the chessboard.

DE

Originally posted by saint4God
I can see that. A question does come up though as to what you use as a standard for morality.

I use my own conscience to guide me.

I would think the tendency would be greater as an athiest,

I see more of a tendancy for believers to have more of an option to be immoral.. their morality is measured by doctrine.. it they want to be immoral they can always look up an escape clause away their own conscience in the bible or Koran.. as illustrated frequently on this site. Athiests only have themselves.. the responsibilty falls on their shoulders alone. I have never seen athiests slamming homosexuality or paganism.. [or saying 150 thousand people deserved to die] ..there is nothing to preach with. God is easily used as a weapon unfortuantly.
I admit you are definently a more positive example of a christian.. I am wondering.. how immoral were you before you became christian? [as in lieing, stealing, abusing etc] Did you already have 'a feeling' things were wrong/'sinful' before you were 'told' so?

Newsflash: We're ALL sinners.

Depends what constitutes as a sin.. and I have met handicapped people for instance that I'm sure have never 'sinned' [by biblical standards but that in itself may be considered a sin as well]. I admit everyone can f#ks up.. it's human.. but the word 'sin' obligates someone to be ashamed of EVERY mistake they make and dwell on them.. shame is not constructive.
You stuff up, fix it [hopefully], learn, move on, you avoid doing it again.

Sorry if there are any 'holier-than-thou's' out there but you can be as Christian as you want and you'll still a sinner

Amen to that.

How about death? If someone propositioned being saved from death eternal at no cost or risk, is that inviting?

No.. I'd be kidding myself. The prospect of death kind of does suck.. but it makes me appreciate, respect and treasure the beauty of life all the more. The inevetability of it has me wanting to make the most of it.. because you only get one go at it. Of course I've had experiences with ghosts and the like but thats a whole other subject and wouldn't immediately prove god.

I hope so too. As an ex-agnostic, I can relate to a lot of these points. Careful putting faith into humans, sometimes they turn on you

A couple of the replies may not be a good example.. but there's always good in them somewhere. I'll keep faith in humanity.. I just won't turn my back to it.

Alec

Some buddhists are atheists, I believe thats how Buddhism was traditionally taught?

I think you're right.. I share many princibles with buddhism however I hesistate to call myself buddhist as I don't beleive in alot of the mythology. I don't think they have a 'god' exactly.. but I read somewhere they have sevearl heavens [which I don't beleiev in either]. All in all it seems like a fairly peaceful belief system though.

gps777,

Atheist believes and worships himself same as Satan does and wants you to as well,

PLEASE re-read my original post..

[edit on 5-1-2005 by riley]

Originally posted by marg6043
I don't see how one can judge an atheist as being immoral. Most atheists (as far as I know) put a greater value on this life as we don't believe there's an afterlife. I wouldn't want to kill someone because then they'd be dead, it'd be over for them. And I actually think that MAYBE there's some sort of afterlife. Our consciousness ceases to exist but matter and energy don't.

My thoughts exactly.

Just because I don't believe in a god doesn't make me a bad person.I still think of other people's feelings before I act (for the most part).I'll still offer to help someone with a task.

I do live my life the way I see fit not the way a religion feels I should.

And gps777 I don't know about worshipping myself but yes I do believe in myself.There is nothing wrong in believing in one's self if it make's you a better person.Some would call it self confidence.

[edit on 5-1-2005 by Simon_Boudreaux]