Donald Trump: We Will Have a ‘Deportation Force’

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I would like to think that the founding fathers would have wanted a proper, legal way to immigrate, and not just throw the doors open to everyone.

You could note that they tended to have issues from time to time with the natives?

a reply to: peskyhumans

I do not think that an illegal immigrant is considered a citizen.

Now an immigrant that has taken a citizenship test has more rights that one who came here by crossing the border illegally.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

This is a ridiculous argument. Why does the government even make distinctions between citizens and non-citizens? by your logic everyone is a defacto citizen of the US and protected by its constitution through warm body status.

My point is not irrelevant but since you offer no counter it is moot. IF you have ever had your rights violated then you will realize that words on paper don't mean much when you are on the receiving end of police batons and tasers. Rights are great as long as everyone agrees but in reality like George Carlin said they are just a list of temporary privileges granted to you by government and they can be taken away at any time. In the end might makes right but I digress.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: peskyhumans

I do not think that an illegal immigrant is considered a citizen.

Now an immigrant that has taken a citizenship test has more rights that one who came here by crossing the border illegally.

Yes but with out applying rights and due process how will Trumps grand anti immigration army going to pick up and send those in the USA illegal back without accidentally sending back REAL US citizens.


Going round with a van and picking up anyone with a odd accent and skin colour then driving them to the nearest border is not going to cut it.

a reply to: crazyewok

The most we could hope for is to remove any illegals with a criminal history other than the crime of border crossing.

One thing we should all be able to agree on is that it would be legal but immoral to remove every person in the usa that has not obtained citizenship.

There will be no complete wall and no removal of law abiding immigrants.

There is a much deeper issue with trump and that is he is a narcissist.

originally posted by: peskyhumans
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I would like to think that the founding fathers would have wanted a proper, legal way to immigrate, and not just throw the doors open to everyone.

I'm not in disagreement here, but how does this make it ok to violate someone's due process just because he isn't a citizen?

You could note that they tended to have issues from time to time with the natives?

I COULD note that, but I could also note that the term "men" originally meant white, Protestant men as well. Things have changed since then.

If he does get to be president, just wait, it is going to affect us all in the long run.

Right now it is illegal immigrants that are the targets, and he is talking mass deportations. The problem is how do you tell if a person is an illegal immigrant or not? And what will he do or the government do for those it mistakes for such? What about the illegal immigrant who has stolen someones identity, do they now get deported, cause some official does not believe them? And that is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. After all what a useful tool to use to get rid of the undesirables in the country, claim that they are illegal immigrants and then ship them to other countries, without so much as due process of the law and ultimately creating a bigger mess in the long run. You see if he gets his way, then it will affect millions of both illegal and legal residents of the country. It opens a dangerous door legally that no one wants opened up.

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
a reply to: Krazysh0t

This is a ridiculous argument. Why does the government even make distinctions between citizens and non-citizens? by your logic everyone is a defacto citizen of the US and protected by its constitution through warm body status.

Everyone having equal rights doesn't mean that everyone gets all the privileges that the American government extends to citizens. Rights are held by everyone citizen and non-citizen alike. PRIVILEGES are only given to citizens.

My point is not irrelevant but since you offer no counter it is moot. IF you have ever had your rights violated then you will realize that words on paper don't mean much when you are on the receiving end of police batons and tasers. Rights are great as long as everyone agrees but in reality like George Carlin said they are just a list of temporary privileges granted to you by government and they can be taken away at any time. In the end might makes right but I digress.

This is all useless information.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
The most we could hope for is to remove any illegals with a criminal history other than the crime of border crossing.

Which can and should be done with current LEO agency's without creating a new alphabet agency.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
There is a much deeper issue with trump and that is he is a narcissist.

I agree with you there!

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You act like being deported is not a process. How hard is it to prove you are here legally? A few documents cross checked in a database and presto. You act like vans are going to drive down the street throwing bags over peoples heads. I as a US citizen need documentation to do pretty much anything. If you don't have that documentation then you must prove you are a citizen. Its not as complicated as people are pretending. This fallacy that its too big an undertaking or that somehow there wont be a legal process at work needs to be dropped.

For the knee jerkers in this thread please prove the claim that due process will somehow be violated? Do you even have any understanding about immigration enforcement? Seems like a lot of politically motivated hot air.

a reply to: NihilistSanta

So what exactly is going to be different about Trump's policy that isn't being done now then? Immigration already deports people when they are found to not have proper documentation to be here.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: crazyewok

The most we could hope for is to remove any illegals with a criminal history other than the crime of border crossing.

One thing we should all be able to agree on is that it would be legal but immoral to remove every person in the usa that has not obtained citizenship.

There will be no complete wall and no removal of law abiding immigrants.

There is a much deeper issue with trump and that is he is a narcissist.

I disagree. What's both illegal and immoral is entering a country illegally. It's both legal and moral to deport them.

a reply to: randyvs

I know if I were in the illegals sapatoes, I'd likely be do'n the same thing they're do'n. It didn't help matters much for me this morning coming from the politically incorrect in europe thread, right to this one. It just pains me to see this happening. I'm afraid of the world my grand daughter is going to become a woman in because I get it. I know america is over. I apologize for using ATS to vent. Sincerely

I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.
Elie Wiesel

No Human Being Is Illegal

Your granddaughter will be fine Randy

America isn't over - it's just changing

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
What about them? Are you suggesting that I wouldn't be for legal immigration reform? I would be. I just never see anyone pushing to change it.

We need to take care of our own first. 92 million out of work is my issue and not a single other person in the rest of the world. As I said before we can not solve the horde lives these people were born into. It is not our problem to fix it either, we need to take care of our own first and foremost. Lets let Europe soak up 100 million and see how that destroys their economy and way of life. They can't do it we can't do it.

You do know that we've had much larger immigration waves in the past right AND with worse systems setup to take care of them. We didn't fall apart then, and we aren't falling apart now.

We needed them but today at 330 million we do not unless we want to destroy our own ways of life. Are you willing to give up everything you have, or if you have very little because you are one of the 92 million want to ensure a life of nothing?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Securing the border? Eliminating sanctuary cities? De incentivize employing illegals? Obviously the current system inst working or it would not be an issue.

You think conservatives would be against a new agency but if it is acting in the interest of the people why would they be? Why do you think that this could not be done with a temporary force? Perhaps it could be done on a state level. So far there are proposals but nothing is definitive. It just seems like jumping to conclusions.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
We need to take care of our own first. 92 million out of work is my issue and not a single other person in the rest of the world. As I said before we can not solve the horde lives these people were born into. It is not our problem to fix it either, we need to take care of our own first and foremost. Lets let Europe soak up 100 million and see how that destroys their economy and way of life. They can't do it we can't do it.

92 million out of work is the U6 index. It should be noted that roughly 45 million people in the country are aged 65 and older. Now there are still people older than 65 working, but I'd say a good portion of them aren't. So that number isn't exactly honest when trying to determine who is and isn't out of work and who needs to be and who doesn't need to be employed.

We needed them but today at 330 million we do not unless we want to destroy our own ways of life. Are you willing to give up everything you have, or if you have very little because you are one of the 92 million want to ensure a life of nothing?

We needed them in the past? You know, the people of the day would have disagreed with you there. There was just as much of a fierce opposition to immigration (in this case legal immigration) as there is now.

originally posted by: NihilistSanta
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Securing the border? Eliminating sanctuary cities? De incentivize employing illegals? Obviously the current system inst working or it would not be an issue.

It WASN'T an issue until Trump opened his big mouth and caused a bunch of uninformed voters to THINK it is a problem. Illegal immigration is at a low point right now...

Fewer immigrants are entering the U.S. illegally

As the Department of Homeland Security continues to pour money into border security, evidence is emerging that illegal immigration flows have fallen to their lowest level in at least two decades. The nation’s population of illegal immigrants, which more than tripled, to 12.2 million, between 1990 and 2007, has dropped by about 1 million, according to demographers at the Pew Research Center.

And this article was written in May, BEFORE Trump threw his hat into the Presidential ring.

You think conservatives would be against a new agency but if it is acting in the interest of the people why would they be? Why do you think that this could not be done with a temporary force? Perhaps it could be done on a state level. So far there are proposals but nothing is definitive. It just seems like jumping to conclusions.

So Republicans are only for shrinking the government when it isn't a policy they are trying to push? Got it. Thanks for confirming the hypocrisy that I already suspected.

By the way, anything that Trump is proposing won't be done on the state level.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

We needed them in the past? You know, the people of the day would have disagreed with you there. There was just as much of a fierce opposition to immigration (in this case legal immigration) as there is now.

My question to you is do we need them today to fill in some roll in today's society that is lacking that can not be done with work visas opening to door to work here for many others too? I have said before I have a sister in law that has been trying to come here for over 10 years. That is the process not to sneak across a border then expect to be handed a citizenship.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

You are moving the goal post. The immigration issue is not just about those coming in. There are millions who already came and have yet to leave. How do you know it wont be done on the state level? Have any proof or is that just an assumption? How do you propose a force capable of deporting large numbers of people without temporarily growing government? Has a cost analysis been performed? Perhaps in the long run the cost are better for the country to pay upfront to remove the "moochers" aka those collecting welfare and entitlements, using services, etc that are here illegally.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

We needed them in the past? You know, the people of the day would have disagreed with you there. There was just as much of a fierce opposition to immigration (in this case legal immigration) as there is now.

My question to you is do we need them today to fill in some roll in today's society that is lacking that can not be done with work visas opening to door to work here for many others too? I have said before I have a sister in law that has been trying to come here for over 10 years. That is the process not to sneak across a border then expect to be handed a citizenship.

Whether we need them or not, they are here. Even with an anti-illegal immigration force of 20,000+ personal that Obama is working with cannot put a good dent in this number. It's like wash-a-mole. Except you take down one and 15 more pop up.

I tell you this, trump is going to be no more successful with his plan than any other person trying to deport illegals. If we want to reduce the number of illegals, shipping them out isn't going to cut it. We need to address the reasons why they are coming here in the first place. Otherwise this is just a never ending game of idiocy and hot air.