God loves you, and I believe some of you may have experienced him in your life without knowing it.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Neither of those gods claim to be the embodiment of love. How often are you in a relationship with someone and don't know who they are?

a reply to: Akragon

How exactly do you "experience" his love?

I'm truly curious...

Well I think you're misunderstanding my original claim. Remember, that simple if-then statement in the OP? If God is love, the love is god. When I say I think you have experienced God because you have experienced love, I literally mean when you feel love in your life that is God. That is his presence following around and thru you because love is God.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

We are not perfect. Sometimes we let our emotions get the best of us. Sometimes we make mistakes. Sometimes terrible mistakes. It's in our nature.

So much of what the Bible considers sin is beyond silly. No amount of reflection is going to change that.

Ever stopped to consider that maybe an omniscient God who is the essence of Good might no a bit more about the moral realm than us? I believe everything is in the Bible for a reason so we will simply have to agree to disagree about the silliness of the Bible seeing as how thats purely a subjective matter not much for me to say to convince you.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

So then it was god's love that determined all the babies and children in Sodom & Gomorrah were just too wicked to live?

Doesn't really matter if a person is a baby or an adult when God kills them. He told Abraham he wouldn't destroy Sodom unless every person was unrighteous. God is omniscient and can very well tell if a child will grow up to be righteous or not. So I don't really see how their age matters. Sure I couldn't do such a thing and it be morally acceptable, but God an omniscient being most definitely can make a decision like that and know whether or not it is just or not.

The people of Sodom were Evil. Many people bring up the section of the Bible where Lot offers to let his daughters get raped(which makes more sense in the context of that day if you know your history). Lot had just let two angels in his house, and the men of Sodom come to rape the men. He offers the women and there like na dude I want the men(who were angels). Jude also compares their sin to that of the angels who bred with humans making the nephilim. So many people believe its possible that sodom could have been a nephilim tribe or some sort of the like.

P.S. Murgatroid brought something up I really didn't think about. God knew those children wouldn't grow up to be righteous but by taking them before the age of innocence he actually did spare them

a reply to: jaws1975

No one celebrates his death. His death was a display of love for us.

John 15
“Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friend."

That was Jesus displaying his love for us. That is why everyone focuses on the cross so much. Not because we are glad he was beaten and tortured. We are just thankful that he died to for the sins of the world.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

God is omniscient and can very well tell if a child will grow up to be righteous or not. So I don't really see how their age matters.

God kills the pregnant mother and her child in Sodom because he knows the baby will grow up to be unrighteous but permits Hitler and Ted Bundy to live...

I believe everything is in the Bible for a reason so we will simply have to agree to disagree about the silliness of the Bible

We definitely will have to. The idea an all-knowing, all-loving, all-powerful god would do and condone whats in scripture to me is crazy talk.

Stoning to death a woman on her wedding night because its discovered she's not a virgin?

The notion that comes from a god that is the 'essence of good' is silly....to say the least.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: jaws1975

No one celebrates his death. His death was a display of love for us.

John 15
“Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friend."

That was Jesus displaying his love for us. That is why everyone focuses on the cross so much. Not because we are glad he was beaten and tortured. We are just thankful that he died to for the sins of the world.

That's how Christians should act, however the message that most Christians got for obvious reasons is that suffering connects you with the divine, Better suffer in this life than eternity etc.
The martyr movement glorified by early Christians among with the tortures of Christ described at the second century ad.
fueled even more that belief in Roman christian church.
Which started seeing torture as blessing and punishment for sins as relief. even today this barbaric belief exists among Christians.
The cross became the symbol of Christianity at the 3rd to 4th century ad, by the Roman Emperor.
and used for ''Holy'' wars and to convert unbelievers.

Early Christians Never used the cross as their symbol because that was disgracing to Christ.
They used the fish as IXθΥS which meant Jesus Christ God of Us and Savior.

Crosses were a taboo back then
Only criminals and Heretics died on the crosses, and they weren't allowed to take them off,
they were left there to rot for days and days, as part of the punishment
so it was shameful and disrespectful back then.

But later it was glorified, by the church.

Point is that Jesus him self never asked us to worship the cross.
That was what humans decided to do. out of nowhere...

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

God kills the pregnant mother and her child in Sodom because he knows the baby will grow up to be unrighteous but permits Hitler and Ted Bundy to live...

The difference between now and then is Christ ? Then God was not at peace with the world. Our rebellion against love, which is god, puts us at in the line of God's wrath. Before Christ the nature of God demanded that He act either for the good of Israel or for the good of the world. We don't know his intentions unless he clearly states them. Christ died for the sins of the world. Judgment doesn't come until after death or the . God is currently at peace with the world thanks to Christ. So God's I think the Bible teaches that it is now in God's nature to give us all mercy out love until the age of grace comes to and end and revelations starts to kick off.

Read Hebrews 8. Talks about the old and new covenants. Explains the difference between them. You and I do not view sin as God does. We are desensitized to it, because we don't know what its like to be a completely pure state of mind. A mind that has nothing but thoughts of love. Again Why are you so hateful towards the Biblical God when he took care of you? He knew that you would be exactly as you are, and he chose to open up his house and family to you. Not because you deserve it or did something to earn it but simply because He cares for you.

a reply to: Dr1Akula

Sure Jesus never asked us to worship a cross, but I personally have always just viewed them as a reminder of his sacrifice for me as somone he called friend.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

The difference between now and then is Christ ?

Doesn't change that prior to that point god had those thoughts and did those actions.

Then God was not at peace with the world.

You said god is omnipotent and omniscient. It was within his power to create an ideal world as he deems it.

Our rebellion against love

I have no rebellion against love. I’m sorry that you do.

We don't know his intentions unless he clearly states them.

Which he clearly does according to scripture, and it’s clearly horrendous. It’s all there dude. I don’t need to make anything up. I can merely post verses from the Bible to demonstrate.

A mind that has nothing but thoughts of love.

I’m sorry but I would have to abandon everything I know about love to see these words as loving.

Again Why are you so hateful towards the Biblical God

I don’t believe he exists. For that reason I don’t hate him. I don’t hate Zeus because I also disbelieve in his existence. I don’t hate beings I don’t believe exist, man. What I disapprove of is specific religious beliefs. In general, I think it’s terrible, unjustified, and delusional that humans think they can speak for god. That they would know what a creator god thinks and feels. That is the height of human arrogance and ignorance.

He knew that you would be exactly as you are

Again, if he kills the unrighteous in Sodom because he knows their future then why not Hitler or Ted Bundy or anyone else so evil?

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
In general, I think it’s terrible, unjustified, and delusional that humans think they can speak for god. That they would know what a creator god thinks and feels. That is the height of human arrogance and ignorance.

I am not saying it's not arrogance and ignorance to believe that you know what a creator god thinks and feels,
but I don't think religion was created from arrogance or ignorance,
but rather from human curiosity and inner questions of existence.
Humans might didn't know how Gods think and feel, but they tried to find out their properties from nature and stars,
Astronomy/astrology and the power and laws of nature might have been the most ancient religion of mankind.
These were the main hidden coded messages (among others) in any pagan religion and mythology ever existed including Christianity.

Imo religion looks illogical because the interpretation is wrong.

a reply to: Dr1Akula

I think an important distinction needs to be made between god-belief, general metaphysics, and religious belief that claims things about god and realms it cannot possibly know. I take no qualm with god-belief, or metaphysics. Human curiosity beckons it. Hell, I encourage it. The danger is not in belief of metaphysics, but in claiming certitudes. That's the domain of the religious. That's why problems arise. If people embrace these matters in a purely exploratory sense it would ultimately be inconsequential to society, and likely beneficial to us spiritually, and maybe even something science can embrace.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

My personal issue is the very title of this thread... God loves you, yet through out the bible you'll find examples of the complete opposite of love... Yet Christianity will go though this elaborate song and dance to try to reconcile these issues with this god that "loves his children"

There is NO love in the god that is represented in the OT...

whatever or whoever he/she/it is... It can not be love

a reply to: Akragon

I love my children.

That's why I beat them within an inch of their lives when they disobey.

Like if they get out of bed to go to the bathroom.

They disobeyed. So I beat them.

Sometimes I pray the Lord smite them.

God damn them to hell! (Please my Lord)

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

You are truly a loving parent...

Its funny though... The bible says "God is love" in the NT...

Yet his child Adam eats the "forbidden fruit" and all of man kind is condemned forever because of it...

Apparently this god needs to learn what forgiveness is...

a reply to: Akragon

Curious how a God of love would have this to say:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Darkness and evil sound loving and cuddle worthy!

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Doesn't change that prior to that point god had those thoughts and did those actions.

I didn't dispute that. I merely gave you the reason for the difference in his behavior.

You said god is omnipotent and omniscient. It was within his power to create an ideal world as he deems it.

What does this have to do with the relationship between man and God? God judges people in the Old testament because the Lamb of God had not yet be slain for the permanent shedding of sin. His power and knowledge really don't have anything to do with the relationship man(beings of free will) chooses to have with God.

I have no rebellion against love. I’m sorry that you do.

What I mean by that is, not every action that we do is motivated by love. Sure we can try our hardest to live that way, but if we are being honest with ourselves we are not always loving. Because we don't know what its like to be a perfectly loving being we don't understand how God views sin.

Which he clearly does according to scripture, and it’s clearly horrendous. It’s all there dude. I don’t need to make anything up. I can merely post verses from the Bible to demonstrate.

More like you can pull one or two verses in which God causes death. That doesn't mean that those causes of death are morally horrendous. That doesn't mean God wasn't justified in his actions. Unless God tells us why he does what he does we don't know. Any place he does tell us his reasons I think they are just.

I’m sorry but I would have to abandon everything I know about love to see these words as loving.

I don't see how that is a response to what I said.

I don’t believe he exists. For that reason I don’t hate him. I don’t hate Zeus because I also disbelieve in his existence. I don’t hate beings I don’t believe exist, man. What I disapprove of is specific religious beliefs. In general, I think it’s terrible, unjustified, and delusional that humans think they can speak for god. That they would know what a creator god thinks and feels. That is the height of human arrogance and ignorance.

Are you purposely being obtuse? Obviously I am asking why you speak so terribly of that particular God. Based on the fact that you think you are constantly loving and never unloving towards people I'd say your ego needs some checking.

Again, if he kills the unrighteous in Sodom because he knows their future then why not Hitler or Ted Bundy or anyone else so evil?

Why is it atrocious with Sodom and not with Hitler's empire? Again the difference in the way he deals with the world is Christ. And I have already said that I believe in ultimate justice. So even if god doesn't judge Hitler and them here he will in the afterlife.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

As I've said since I joined this forum...

This is NOT God... there is a drastic and distinct difference between what Jesus spoke about "the Father" and this imposter...

The people of the OT didn't know the true God... That is why HE needed to come

and Christianity still hasn't figured it out 2k years later

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: Akragon

I love my children.

That's why I beat them within an inch of their lives when they disobey.

Like if they get out of bed to go to the bathroom.

They disobeyed. So I beat them.

Sometimes I pray the Lord smite them.

God damn them to hell! (Please my Lord)

...that - is sheer brilliance!

No amount of semantic claptrap, 'my own interpretaion of it', 'God works in mysterious ways' etc. etc. etc...comes close to reconciling this very basic anomaly...to accept that a God of Love, with us - its 'children', would act like a human with an anger management problem...and that seems to be an accepted part of christianity...something wrong with this picture...

Å99

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

There was a question in one of my posts I am very interested in having answered.

Place yourself in God's shoes. God as you see him. Pure love! Capable of anything.

How would you personally deal with Sodom and Gomorrah? Or.. the Deluge?

Take your pick. Look forward to your answer.