God loves you, and I believe some of you may have experienced him in your life without knowing it.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

Place yourself in God's shoes. God as you see him. Pure love! Capable of anything.

How would you personally deal with Sodom and Gomorrah? Or.. the Deluge?

I don't know because honestly there is not enough information for me to go on, and I can't put myself in the shoes of omniscience nor can I really fathom what its like to be pure love. Simply just not questions I can answer with my limited position. I assume If I was him I would repeat those actions seeing as how he is all those things and thats what he chose.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Perhaps, removing the desire to rape would be a good start?

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

So you can't really answer because why?

Just look within yourself and ask yourself what YOU would do!

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

So you can't really answer because why?

Just look within yourself and ask yourself what YOU would do!

Probably more to the point...one should just pray for the answer...surely, the 'relationship' one has with ones chosen God and saviour, on such a vexing question, could be answered, even if it is second hand - better still, an email address, then we can all get a coherent, intelligent answer...we sure as hell never do in these threads...

Å99

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Sure we can try our hardest to live that way, but if we are being honest with ourselves we are not always loving.

Come now. If we are being honest with ourselves we can surely recognize scripture is full of immorality. To deny that, is to be dishonest with oneself.

More like you can pull one or two verses in which God causes death.

I will fill pages in this thread with it! And you will continue to rationalize it on god's behalf! There is no end. You have a rationalization for all of it! You use arguments that no one could possibly disprove. How could we? We talk about logic and things here on planet Earth, and you talk about things no one can address with anything but faith.

About the ''Love'' of the God of the OT testament, there is a lot of confusion.

God was both good and evil, he was behind everything that happened.
Until Zoroastrianism was adapted into the Monotheistic Israelite beliefs, under the Persian occupation.
God became the Good loving one, while evil was given to another character.
Add to that the various Pagan Mediterranean Philosophies of Christianity.
Egyptian mysticism,
And the prehistoric pagan worship of the sun.
and confusion is guaranteed.

Christianity is a mix of many other religions... contradictions and confusions are to be expected.

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: Dr1Akula

I think an important distinction needs to be made between god-belief, general metaphysics, and religious belief that claims things about god and realms it cannot possibly know. I take no qualm with god-belief, or metaphysics. Human curiosity beckons it. Hell, I encourage it. The danger is not in belief of metaphysics, but in claiming certitudes. That's the domain of the religious. That's why problems arise. If people embrace these matters in a purely exploratory sense it would ultimately be inconsequential to society, and likely beneficial to us spiritually, and maybe even something science can embrace.

Totally agree, but that sounds like the problem is not with the concept of religions in general but with the dogmatic ones.
Because only dogmas claim to know the ultimate truth.

Big beard, flowing robe and sandals? I think I've come across the fella,

a reply to: Akragon

I don't think God is allowed to change a persons will. That would conflict with free will and that wouldn't be loving. However he can give people justice.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

So you can't really answer because why?

I just told you why? I don't know what its like to be God. I don't know all things, and I am most definitely not the essence of love and good. It was an honest answer, sorry it didn't float your boat. God does what God needs to do, so like I said before if I have to answer I'd say I'd most likely do exactly what God did, because he is omniscient and that is what he chose.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy

Come now. If we are being honest with ourselves we can surely recognize scripture is full of immorality.

I would agree that there are parts that mention immoral acts, but I would disagree if your saying those acts are done by God I would disagree.

I will fill pages in this thread with it! And you will continue to rationalize it on god's behalf! There is no end. You have a rationalization for all of it! You use arguments that no one could possibly disprove. How could we? We talk about logic and things here on planet Earth, and you talk about things no one can address with anything but faith.

God forbid that I have reasons for my opinion on moral dilemmas. I am a software developer, so logic is kinda a daily part of my life. Your intentions are quite clear in this statement. You came here to argue. To show that you are right. Not to understand people on a deeper level, and build a relationship with them.

a reply to: Dr1Akula

Christianity is a mix of many other religions... contradictions and confusions are to be expected.

Well some people speak about the Hebrew Mazzaroth, which I believe predates the Zodiac. In my world view, other religions are pervert the truth of the Bible. That gets into theology a lot though.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: Akragon

I don't think God is allowed to change a persons will. That would conflict with free will and that wouldn't be loving. However he can give people justice.

god is once again both selectively omnipotent and selectively omniscient. he not only has these powers, he can turn them on and off at will (lolwut). this gives him both plausible deniability and arguable credibility. both of which are more than enough to fuel the jesus illusion, with the added benefit of using "free will" to shift responsibility while still remaining relevant. how transparently convenient, and you dont even see it.

a reply to: TzarChasm

god is once again both selectively omnipotent and selectively omniscient

No God is completely both of those. I don't think God can change free will because of his nature. That doesn't mean he is incapable of changing free will. That means He won't do it, because of who he is. You simply don't understand my position fully. God is free to choose based on his nature what he does with his omniscience and power, just like we can choose to love or sin, he can choose to exhibit justice or mercy based on who he is.

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: Akragon

I don't think God is allowed to change a persons will. That would conflict with free will and that wouldn't be loving. However he can give people justice.

You don't find that a bit odd?

The "god of love" can't somehow produce loving feelings in his children, yet has little issue with lets say... making bears maul children to death for making fun of someone's lack of hair?

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

No God is completely both of those. I don't think God can change free will because of his nature. That doesn't mean he is incapable of changing free will. That means He won't do it, because of who he is.

but if he did, you wouldnt know it, would you?

You simply don't understand my position fully. God is free to choose based on his nature what he does with his omniscience and power, just like we can choose to love or sin, he can choose to exhibit justice or mercy based on who he is.

"spite is mercy, wrath is justice, war is peace"

that last one has come up quite a bit recently.

a reply to: Akragon

You don't find that a bit odd?

The "god of love" can't somehow produce loving feelings in his children, yet has little issue with lets say... making bears maul children to death for making fun of someone's lack of hair?

We simply just interpret that verse differently. No I don't find it odd at all. Sure God can move inside someone, but its up to the person to listen and many of us simply ignore it. This goes back to the topic when you feel love you feel God. I assume God was attempting to move in those in Sodom they just ignored him. I assume that based on who I think God is. Just like I can assume how a close friend might act in a particular situation but that doesn't necessarily mean I am right.

a reply to: TzarChasm

but if he did, you wouldnt know it, would you?

Depends on if he wanted me to or not. Doesn't mean he would do it just because he can do it without me knowing. It would still violate the gift he gave us and I don't think its in his nature to do such a thing.

"spite is mercy, wrath is justice, war is peace"

that last one has come up quite a bit recently.

Are you saying that is my position on those words?

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Depends on if he wanted me to or not. Doesn't mean he would do it just because he can do it without me knowing. It would still violate the gift he gave us and I don't think its in his nature to do such a thing.

i think you would be a fool to discount the possibility. if the bible has taught me anything, its that god is one of those "the end justifies the means" kind of dudes. he threw his own son to the wolves because that was the solution he designed the problem to require. and yes, that is how it worked out. even down to making sure the kid didnt chicken out. you thought jesus just that good? hmmm...as i said, if he did bend a few rules, you wouldnt know. it logically follows that the only person who could ever know for a fact is the man with the power. so you cant say he never has.

any way you slice it, your faith is a stupid reason for me to trust anyone with that much power, especially if i am also trusting them with regulating that power. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes. but then, you are the one who wants to be his pet, so its more your concern than mine.

Are you saying that is my position on those words?

you could say im holding the shoe by your foot for size comparison.

a reply to: TzarChasm

i think you would be a fool to discount the possibility.

The difference here is I have personal experiences with Christ, who is the visible image of love. Just like I have personal experiences with the people that I share my life with. I exclude it as a possibility based on certain attributes inherent to God.

he threw his own son to the wolves because that was the solution he designed the problem to require. and yes, that is how it worked out.

Jesus willingly came to die for the sins of a world. Jesus is God. You don't understand why it was the solution because you don't understand the need for a Savior. Our choices and actions lead to the need for Christ. Did God know before he created Humans that would happen? Sure. But he also knew how much he would love them after he did create them, even if they strayed from him and if he had to become man and die for that then he was happy to do so. God loves you that is the message of the Bible, and he took care of you. I really don't see why you have such a problem with that.