Lasers in cockpits-terrorists or pranksters, let me know your opinion...

The beam does not have to burn stuff to blind anyone.

100-500mW is the unfocused threshold that smoke will come from carbon paper and electrical tape (1W and up is where it starts burning things).
Even a cheaper 10-20mW laser pointer some one tweaked or made can blind.

Mostly pranksters. Though I'm sure if the terrorist didn't have the idea before they will now.

If it becomes a problem there's lots of ways to deal with it, such as different windshield designs & coatings, visors, etc. Of course some unmarked law enforcement in likely areas around airports looking to spot these guys couldn't hurt either.

In order to really do any damage their timing would have to be perfect, sometime during final approach. You have to remember most modern aircraft can land with autopilot these days and there are at least two pilots in the cockpit. Blinding a pilot is much more difficult then just firing a heat seeking missile, so unless they get their hands on lasers, particle beams, or missiles that will rupture fuel tanks or stall engines they wont have much luck.

It would be real easy to blind pilots, not giving specs of the laser its self (ppl get funny about this). It would take $800, 2-3 days and about 200-1000W from a 12V-115VAC inverter to do a "proper" job. It would be simple enough with some knowledge of laser tech learned from the net.

www.libertyforum.org...

So we're 'safe' now. There were no terrorists!

Originally posted by outsider
Mostly pranksters. Though I'm sure if the terrorist didn't have the idea before they will now.

If it becomes a problem there's lots of ways to deal with it, such as different windshield designs & coatings, visors, etc. Of course some unmarked law enforcement in likely areas around airports looking to spot these guys couldn't hurt either.

In order to really do any damage their timing would have to be perfect, sometime during final approach. You have to remember most modern aircraft can land with autopilot these days and there are at least two pilots in the cockpit. Blinding a pilot is much more difficult then just firing a heat seeking missile, so unless they get their hands on lasers, particle beams, or missiles that will rupture fuel tanks or stall engines they wont have much luck.

I know that it is possible to coat these windshields with something to prevent or diffract lasers from enterting the cockpit. The same type of coating is used at the Pentagon. On the inside every single one of the Pentagon's windows are green. This special coating between the two layers of glass does not allow for easily visual sighting though, let's say a sniper scope, (because the windows have some 'waves' to distort visual images. Also, the special coating sends the light from a laser, like those that might be used on a missle guidance system or a laser point that might be used by a sniper cannot pass through the glass.

The EMP bombs you guys were talking about earlier on in the thread are not that terribly difficult to construct, they had some diagrams in an issue of Scientific American, it is pretty much a big metal coil of copper and some explosives. I won't go into detail or link to it as they seem to be pretty hot on it these days, but no there isn't anything really exotic about them at all. Hell for that matter you can make an EMP generator with some parts from a microwave oven, a reflective parabolic dish and a neon transformer that will quieten your neighbor's stereo pretty effectively. The technology behind EMP weaponry is not really all that advanced, and not really that signifigant of a threat unless there was someway to deploy them on a wide scale. You can shut down a localized area, but a major EMP attack is not realistic.

hey guys

this is my second day as a member on the boards and i'd like to add my 2cents to the thread.

IMHO i feel that its pranksters either teens or adults that have no concern for the potential havoc they could cause.

i've been a volunteer at a huge music festival that my city holds for the last 6yrs. its a 10day festival and the crowds are in the 100's of thousands. a GREAT event........but i digress..........i've worked security for the stages and we've been struggling with these dang lasers for the last 4yrs.

the people in the crowds LOVE to sneak these things in and then point them at the stage and the singers. we confiscate the "toys" as soon as we catch one of these idiots.

no one has been injured by one of these things yet but the potential is there. we've had the singers leave the stage when its been particularly bad........so its a huge issue for us.

at this particular time i feel its pranksters..........terrorists could care LESS about being sneaky in CAUSING a plane/chopper crash...........they THRIVE on the publicity of an accident...........

so why would they want to not step forward and take credit for a problem in a cockpit..........

nope i feel that its idiots out there that are just trying to cause problems.

but that's me!

angie

lol. it happened twice in colorado springs first, NJ case isnt even related. its still an act of terrorism as it scared the holy heck out of all kinds of people and endangered their lives.

Does NO ONE read Tom Clancy? First, end of Debt of Honor/beggining of Executive Order a plane crashes into a building, 1997. Also in Debt of Honor, during a war with Japan, a covert ops group use a powerful laser to blind pilots of a Japans airforce carriers and the big cargo planes crash..... Bush needs to learn how to read, then read Tom Clancy books, OBL sure is from the looks of it.

Laser pointers are WEAK. Engraving, welding and medical lasers are powerful. If osama read it, the pilot would be permanently blinded and no terrorist would use a green laser pointer.

i guess you just dont understand. terroists dont have to be arabs or governments. it was a terrorist act no matter how you slice it. perhaps it was a few isolated incitents of idiots with green lasers but the fact remains that they tried to blind people flying a plane.

if tim mcvae (sp?) would have walked away from the ryder truck that day and the detonation mechanism didnt go off it wouldnt have been a terroist act?

if one of those planes crashed you can bet your sweet that they would be tried as murderers.

If I fart in a crowded elevator or bus (mass transit) and cause some one to get trampled when the door opens, am I a terrorist?

What was this mans motive? When you speed and you are near a bus or passing one, you are a terrorist huh, since you endanger the peoples saftey on the bus, your point is moot.

No, actually, your arguement is moot.

Anyone who would point a laser at a plane full of 320 or 4 people is a threat to the security of the lives of those individuals on board. They are not doing it for fun, they are doing it to promote fear or scare/frighten the individuals on the plane or flying the plane. By attempt to install fear, this coould be construed as a act of terror, not in the sense of a car bombing, but an 'act of terror' all the same.

Ignorance is a defense you use when you are 3, not 30. If you pull out a handgun, and point it at a crowd of people, did you do anything wrong? In effect not if you do not fire the weapon, but you could be charged with attempted murder in some states. So enough with the fart in the elevator analogy.

AS far as Tom Clancy, yes, this technology has been used in a few of his books, along with numerous others. I even read he was asked to sit on a committie after 9/11 to brainstorm other issues, seeing as his book came almost came to fruition.

Originally posted by XL5
If I fart in a crowded elevator or bus (mass transit) and cause some one to get trampled when the door opens, am I a terrorist?

you made me spit my coffee out on my computer screen............that's hysterical

in THAT scenario..........i would consider you a terrorist and chase you off the bus or elevator with a HUGE can of disenfectant!!!!

angie

A gun and a laser pointer are so different you can't compair them. Now a class IV Q-switched yag or ruby at 10 joules would be enough to blind the pilot and the co-pilot and I have that kind of technology, do I want to cause a plane to crash, no.
If he intended harm, he would have ran from the FBI and taken his family with him, could you see a terrorist make a living for him self and HIS FAMILY and say "daddys gotta blow him self up today"?

What you said was like saying: you pointed a store bought laser pionter at the gas station to blow it up! OR : you pointed it at me because you had a gun and wanted to shoot me! Your assuming HIS motive without trying to place your self in his shoes.

I guess Damned is a terrorist huh, and I guess I am to because I have a few class IV lasers that can blind huh - motive/intent.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I could say you are influencing kids to enjoy war and death by showing one (your child maybe) standing near a tank.

Look at this link for proof!
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

IGNORE FACTS as needed to further this debate!

Ok, I know it has been a couple of years since these stories were rampant in the press however, one thought came to me that Textexplain some of these incidents.


I am only putting out a theory and am not suggesting there is any proof, but has anyone wondered about police? I know that the police are replacing their radar speed guns with laser types. Could it be that some bored police officer stuck out on a speed trap happens to see a plane and wonder to him/herself "wonder how fast that thing's going?"

Just a thought and a possibility for some of these incidents.

Ok, I know it has been a couple of years since these stories were rampant in the press however, one thought came to me that Textexplain some of these incidents.


I am only putting out a theory and am not suggesting there is any proof, but has anyone wondered about police? I know that the police are replacing their radar speed guns with laser types. Could it be that some bored police officer stuck out on a speed trap happens to see a plane and wonder to him/herself "wonder how fast that thing's going?"

Just a thought and a possibility for some of these incidents.

Depends on the intent. Some kids messing around, not terror. Guys who are intent on bringing a plane down to fit a certain purpose. Terror. Not so sure why this is so hard to figure out?