Lasers in cockpits-terrorists or pranksters, let me know your opinion...

www.dailyrecord.com...


Now, what I find funny, is that this article refers to a man that did this to a helicopter while they were looking for the person who lit up a plane recently. I could be completely different people, nad he never admitted to hitting the plane according to the articles, so who was it???

Could all this be such a coincidence that it truly is a laser used for skygazing that was real popular this Christmas? Problem is, this has been a growing issue for the last 6 months or so in the media and on this site.

Is this latest report nothing but a larger disinformation campaign to try to reassure the public that it is safe to fly?


O'Hare www.suntimes.com...

heres some more.... seattletimes.nwsource.com...


and this was BEFORE Christmas there were warnings from the FBI...
www.taipeitimes.com...


we know it could happen....

abcnews.go.com...


Are these really tests by terrorists to see what it will take? Wouldn't there be more reports of this, alot more, I mean, lasers like this were not introduced this year, and there are plenty of prnaksters out there who would have attempted it already. Just looking for opinions.....thanks....

[edit on 3-1-2005 by esdad71]

there's something about the "laser" story that keeps popping up in the news that just doesn't click with me.

I honestly don't know if terrorists have resorted to "dr evil" style tactics or if this is just pranksters having fun with their "laser" toys but I feel like something is not being told in these stories.

call me crazy, but I can see this "laser" theory being attributed to an air disaster in order to cover up security breaches in our airports.

There are hand held lasers out there that can go 35 or more miles.
check out www.wickedlasers.com. They sell them on Ebay all day long.

www.wickedlasers.com...

Thx for the link, they sell also protection goggles, nice.

Personally I think we have several categories at work here:

A very small number of people with terrorist intentions, also the feds themselves alerted by this and doing some (illegal) field experiments to test the feasabillity of such an attack (or keep fear and the war on terror imprinted in the mind of american citizens, to push patriot acts etc.) and naturally the large amount of copycats that want to add to the hype as this story started circulating in newspapers and on the net.....

Its difficult to keep the beam on the target using hand eye coordination alone. Have a friend run back and forth across an end zone at a football field. Try keeping a crappy laser pointer pointed on him. Its not EASY. So imagine that at 10,000 feet. Its totally NOT something that can happen accidently. So this story (the one about the Dad in the backyard) almost seems like a story planted to make people feel like the FBI is taking this lazer pointing stuff very seriously and are working so hard at it that they will even pounce on an unsuspecting and completely innoncent daddy spending edutainment time with his kids. They are just working SO HARD on this case.. they are REALLY nervous about it... they think something MUST be up if they are at this guys house in 10 minutes flat.

Understand what I'm getting at here? We've all noticed the huge amount of stories about laser pointers in cockpits. This story has been in the collective unconcious now for at least a month or so. NOW we find out that the FBI is actually taking the whole thing very seriously.. well.. why.. why get so nervous about it if all they have to do is give the pilots green goggles to protect them (like US forces have suddenly been told to do)?

So you can't accidently target the airplanes. And I'm sure this father would KNOW BETTER (unless he is a total idiot) then to point the thing at an airplane.. let alone track one with the pointer. Not to mention the fact that there have been events at MULTIPLE LOCATIONS... lets not forget that the article really will not let us confuse that issue. There were not just events where this father lived.. there were events in...

"Last week, a pilot in Cleveland reported a laser beam entering his cockpit. That same day, two pilots in Colorado Springs reported seeing green laser lights. And in September, a Delta Air Lines pilot complained a beam hit his eyes near Salt Lake City"

Etc..etc.. lets try a goggle search.. "cockpit laser blind pilot" (no quotes)

18,600 articles. Check the news...

OH LOOK AT THIS... 6 hours ago... fresh incident..

www.suntimes.com...

So even with the father being under survilence.. its still happening. I THINK we can rule him out as a suspect!

So.. all these incidents are taking place around airports.. or close to airports. And almost everyone knows that a good chuck of military hardware is laser guided. Including SAMs and MANPADS...

www.fas.org...

Its like we're being set up for another attack. The only question is, IS THIS ONE an inside job as well.. how would Bush handle an attack that was not a nearly total fabrication created by the US intel community? Guess we won't know till we see it happen.

However.. I'm having a hard time believing that IF this was going to happen that it hasn't happened already. Because if you really wanted to shake up the US air industry, the right time to hit the planes would have been before the holidays. Hit 10 or 20 all at once, different places all over the country, and then hit one every day for a week.. the country would come to a stand still. No air travel. Never mind the disruption caused by 9-11.. Can you imagine no air travel for WEEKS!?

But there is NO DOUBT that the FBI believes or is at least attempting to convince the public that this is a serious threat. The only other oddity is, since we all know what this laser pointing stuff could REALLY mean (never mind this dren about "blinding the pilots".. this is about targeting the planes.. OR its some kids playing with pointers) WHY hasn't the FBI decided to make a terror announcement about this? Why hasn't the threat level gone up? I mean... they raised it SO MANY TIMES over NOTHING at all.. and now they have respectale and creditable citizens (the pilots) reporting that something is afoot and there have been NO public safety warnings at all!

In other words.. its almost like if there is a politically motivated reason to raise the terror alert but no actually terror threat.. Bush and Co. will raise the threat level. HOWEVER.. if a real threat exists.. and it is a tangable thing.. and by warning people those people who are in a position now to make an informed decision about their safety could do so (eg: NOT fly while a chance that terrorist are possibly targeting airliners over the holidays) .. Bush and Co. will NOT raise the threat level.

One terrorist with a good supply of missles could keep the entire country locked down for MONTHS untill he got caught. And remember the beltway sniper? Just much much more difficult to catch.

It could just be another "scare the crap out of the populace for no reason remind them that they need us" operation. It could be what will make the excuse to round up middle easterners. It could be Bushes latest false flag op to give him an excuse to go after Iran and not only that but put the hammer down in Iraq in a big way so he can declair victory and get the hell out before the election (or perhaps send in another 100,000 troops before the election begins to conduct house to house searches to find as many missles as possible to get then out of the hands of the enemy) ... whatever... we won't ever know what was happening unless planes start getting shot out of the sky.. and by then it will be too late.

I'm surprised this didn't happen long long long ago.. in fact.. this would have been much easier for some 'terrorists' to do then 9-11 was. And much much scarrier too in the end.

That is my opinion esdad.. good enough for you?

Thanks for bringing this up btw.. its one of the reasons I wanted to come back to ATS asap to post and get discussing this issue.

(ps: did I hit the wrong button to reply to your message?)

Glad that the Beltway sniper was bought up. This bought a nation to it's knees. Very good opinion. I feel that this is more preparation for an attack of great magnitude.


I still think threat of EMP weapons is there though. They are easier to create and use than nuclear or bio wepaons, and they are easily accessible. Could the lasers that are so easily available bieng used as an effective targeting device for a weapon such as this. Can you imagine the effect of a EMP weapon detonated on top of a parking garage in a major airport? Needing to know by sight the distance a plane must be from an explosion to be rendered useless and then dead in the air would crash into the airports, highways, etc....

Check this thread
www.abovetopsecret.com...'

Also Can't lasers also be used for distance marking. Sit on top of the airports garage, and after testing the distance a dozen or so times on approaching aircraft you could judge how close to let the airplane gets so it is affected by a blast.

Originally posted by esdad71
I still think threat of EMP weapons is there though. They are easier to create and use than nuclear or bio wepaons, and they are easily accessible.

I'd like to see your source info on this. As far as I know, EMP waves get released by nuclear devices, or only in very expensive, delicate equipment the size of a whole van, are one-use, and usually only found in research laboratories.

There are links in the thread posted in my last post, or simply google EMP weapons and look around a little bit. I do not have any of the specifics saved except what is in that thread.




www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil...





[edit on 3-1-2005 by esdad71]

I think it's pranksters, really.

If you're talking about those laser pointers, whoever's doing it should be locked up for a little bit. You can blind someone and cause a disaster.

That kind of begs the question, isn't security supposed to check to see what you have?

Fom the sound of things this all picked up over the holidays. This would be when kids are out of school on winter break. I'm leaning towards dumb kids doing this. Where are the parents? Not only is this ineffective as a tool for taking down a jet but that beam of light will also help give away your position. I doubt terrorists are that dumb.

These are NOT laser pointers that are being used, the lasers are not nearly powerful enough. I saw a link (and can't find it) for a hand held unit that had photos of the laser shining up to the clouds and boasted that it could melt a styrofoam cup from across the room.

At $600 it would hardly be accessible to teenage "pranksters" I also find it hard to believe that even the worst of kids would attempt to cause an airliner crash. Sure some might, but not in the numbers we are hearing about. Something else is afoot.

What I would like to know is how they caught the one guy that was just fooling around. Probably the obvious would be that the pilot looked down and saw where it was comming from. Any other ideas?

The one they caught pointed a green laser at a helicopter that was investigating the issue. It is located in the article that this linked in the first post.

That is the part that struck me as odd. They (investigators)just happened to be in the area, and someone just happened to light up a helicopter. To convienant.

This is something that has been occuring over the last few months...

could be terrorists new type of classified expiriment used to lock on to civilian airliners. Or maybe its just some lame christmas present that only a few rich people got??...lol..sorry I had to throw that one in. But seriously, think about the states it was in, and how well hidden you could be in those states. And when they emphasize about people shooting lazers in the cockpit, the image I get is little billy being bad with his little 5 dollar lazer pointer. But then to think these are big lazers...I get the picture of a 2 foot diameter green type lazer... What else ?

Originally posted by deevee
These are NOT laser pointers that are being used, the lasers are not nearly powerful enough. I saw a link (and can't find it) for a hand held unit that had photos of the laser shining up to the clouds and boasted that it could melt a styrofoam cup from across the room.

At $600 it would hardly be accessible to teenage "pranksters" I also find it hard to believe that even the worst of kids would attempt to cause an airliner crash. Sure some might, but not in the numbers we are hearing about. Something else is afoot.

Okay, I stand corrected. I just heard laser pointer on the news.

Now I'm starting to wonder, with the information you've presented here....

pointing a laser at a landing plane is an act of terrorism no matter who does it.

But remember our government thinks only poor middle easterners of Arab descent are able to perform acts of terrorism. No one else.

Edit: cant type. lol

[edit on 1/4/2005 by Indy]

Oh wow another laser thread, I'm gonna have to cut and paste now from my other posts on the same thing.

Any movement from your hand could ruin aim but it could also wave the beam into the pilots eyes as well, the beam could also be spread out more at that distance. The pilots never said how long the bean was "held" in thier eyes for, it could have been a few twitchy flashes.

Also, high powered lasers can be found every where, they are cheap as well. You just have to know what you want and where to get them, they can be bought for as little as $100. Anything over 10-15mW can blind.

Why wouldn't they (the terrorists) use a low power IR laser that can still reach the jet and use night vision goggles or a cheapo camera with no IR filter, so only they can see the beam?

If you can put a dot on the clouds with a 5-10mW green laser pointer, you can pass it though a window of a plane just as its landing.

One of the cases may have been a terrorist, the others may have been kids who heard about it and wanted to see how far thier new toys beam could go or if they could even do it (target practice).

I would think that if you were a terrorist that you would have to be descreet about what you are doing. It obviously has to be something small. Because I dont think the authorities are going to be following a truck with a huge metal thing with a lense bolted in the bed of a truck and not think anything obvious. My guess is that it has to be something small, and that they all have contacts. If it was in different states, what are the strong importance in THOSE states ?

Originally posted by deevee
These are NOT laser pointers that are being used, the lasers are not nearly powerful enough. I saw a link (and can't find it) for a hand held unit that had photos of the laser shining up to the clouds and boasted that it could melt a styrofoam cup from across the room.

At $600 it would hardly be accessible to teenage "pranksters" I also find it hard to believe that even the worst of kids would attempt to cause an airliner crash. Sure some might, but not in the numbers we are hearing about. Something else is afoot.

I actually downloaded this video but now I can't find it...the guy pointed the laser at a plastic disposable cup (a red one like you drink beer out of) and held it for about 5 seconds...it put a hole literally no bigger than a pin head in the cup...if it had to be held in the same place for 5 seconds to do this and you're targeting a moving (landing) airliner AND the hole would only be that big...i find it hard to believe this laser would do any damage