Here’s What The World Thinks About The American Response To The Oregon Massacre

originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: strongfp

originally posted by: joemoe
a reply to: strongfp

The issue you missed also is that gun also saved over 200,000 people every year in the US. It's just not sensational news.

You are pulling that figure out of thin air.

You want to know what has save millions and millions year round on this planet?
Gun regulation and control.

I already proved that incorrect pages ago with source links to Australia's homicide staying the same or moving higher after the major gun control regulations passing. Killers moved to different weapons. Gun regulation did nothing for their homiide rate and my sources are the Aussie government themselves.

Try again.

Killers, yes people who are out to MURDER people.
You are ignoring the issue again, and shining the spotlight on another person or nation, ignoring the elephant in the room. That the United states has a gun issue, in 2012 almost 70% of all murders in the united states were with guns, here we are in 2015 and the united states has almost 300 mass shootings in less than 365 days out of the year.

How many does Australia have?

The point people are trying to get across is that more guns does not mean less death. The issue is more guns leads to easy death and more necessary violence and death.

Oh...ok. I get it now. So it is not really about decreasing the number of deaths, just how many die in one place?

Interesting debate method....

Why would I care to get rid of something that changes nothing? The issue is the person behind the tool used to kill....that is what I want to change.

ETA: Australia has none, just a higher homicide rate now than before using different weapons. But hey...at least no mass shootings right? Let the people die as long as they don't die together.....

Don't give the person the tool in the first place!
And a gun is not a tool, it's a weapon, it was invented to kill, it was made with the intentions of killing living organisms so the person using it has the upper hand in the situation of survival.

And the whole point of this thread is about mass shootings, and gun control, not about taking away the weapons.

You are ignoring ALL the statistics about how guns have had a negative impact on the US culture and society, and ignore ALL of it. Ignore that gun control is a solution, because it takes into account the PERSON USING THE GUNS.

I haven't ignored anything....here I will post the stats from Australia again so you can clearly see that gun regulation has done nothing for homicide rates there. The whole point of this thread is about mass shootings with "powerful" weapons, meaning "assault rifles" in the OP's statement. The whole point of this thread was specifically targeted at the Oregon shooting in which a "powerful" weapon was not what was used to execute each person individually....handguns were.

Here is my Aussie stat post again:

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
And here is a particularly interesting graph and statement, again from your own governmental stats:

There has been a pronounced change in the type of weapons used in homicide since monitoring began. Firearm use has declined by more than half since 1989-90 as a proportion of homicide methods, and there has been an upward trend in the use of knives and sharp instruments, which in 2006-07 accounted for nearly half of all homicide victims.

Source

Funny that guns were already on the decline as the tool to use in 1990....man that is a STEEP incline in knife/sharp instrument usage with no difference in actual homicide rate.

So on the VERY year that laws were changed, knives accounted for nearly half of all homicide victims and the trend has continued upward....but yeah, guns HAVE to be the issue right?

And a link directly to the post on the stats with sources:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Kryties

The problem is most of your facts are from sources that lean to the far left. It is like me quoting the NRA or the GOA. I could quote them too if you want, but you would call nonsense.

ATTENTION EVERYBODY

Please read THIS POST before it gets lost in the mix.

a reply to: strongfp

Sorry, but you're wrong! Though you may have chosen to ignore it, I posted facts which clearly refute virtually everything you have said in your post.

Here

originally posted by: zerozero00
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

We are pack animals in the big scheme of things,
so, yer a little violence didn't hurt anybody ... infact it becomes important in certain situations to slap someone down...just don't kill them

Its not being hypocritical, just controlled

ok, example...you disrespect my daughter in a relationship and you're likely to get a punch on the nose and sent on your way...Over the pond in the good ole US of A you just blow his head off with your 12 gauge ...hmmm see the difference?

No killings!!!...Why do you think it ok to kill someone that breaks into your home to steal your possessions?
Why do yanks think it OK to kill anyone at all, ever?
We don't even have a death penalty in the UK...for a very good reason too, way to many innocents die this way

There's any number of videos available for viewing on YouTube that how American dads and brothers beating somebody up for disrespecting their daughter, wife, or sister. So no, the U.K. doesn't have a lock on that. Not every dad is "blowing his head off with a shotgun."

Why do you think it's okay to force me to hope somebody who's just made forcible entry in to my home while I and my hypothetical daughter are home will stop at stealing my tv? They've already demonstrated a complete disregard for my personal rights. Am I just supposed to hope they'll stop with my stuff? Personally, I don't care about my tv. Take it. But you come down the hallway to the bedrooms, that's a whole different ballgame.

I don't think it's okay to kill anyone for any reason one chooses. Why do you think it's okay to apply the broad brush to all gun owners? Have you met all of them? Do you know how each and every one of them feels and thinks?

originally posted by: Kryties

ATTENTION EVERYBODY, PLEASE READ THIS:

The leading cause of death is being born.

originally posted by: zerozero00
We are pack animals in the big scheme of things,
so, yer a little violence didn't hurt anybody ... infact it becomes important in certain situations to slap someone down...just don't kill them

Its not being hypocritical, just controlled

Nice to know we can rely on your sane judgment on when it is okay to 'slap someone down'. Frankly, you sound dangerous and unstable.

ok, example...you disrespect my daughter in a relationship and you're likely to get a punch on the nose and sent on your way...Over the pond in the good ole US of A you just blow his head off with your 12 gauge ...hmmm see the difference?

What an absurd hypothetical. Do you always invent bizarre scenarios to try and support your nonsensical statements? Maybe you like to go around punching people in the nose for perceived injustices. I, personally, do not even contemplate punching someone, let alone shooting them.

No killings!!!...Why do you think it ok to kill someone that breaks into your home to steal your possessions?
Why do yanks think it OK to kill anyone at all, ever?

If my life is threatened in my home I absolutely feel I have the right to do whatever it takes to keep myself and my family safe.

You can enjoy your violent mindset, I am nice and safe here in and do not, unlike you, feel the need to resort to violence.

a reply to: Kryties

LOL! But I thought this thread was about "MASS SHOOTINGS" as you have pointed out so many times on every page, and about "powerful weapons". Don't link stats that have nothing to do with your OP please.

On this post alone I can reference my stats to your Aussie gun regulation doing NOTHING to change homicide rates yet again.

Please stick to the topic you so dearly tell others to stick to next time.

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

You should go back and search. All of those combination caused mass murder in the past.

Here's one more

Nutbar + Passenger Airplane = Problem.

originally posted by: Kryties

ATTENTION EVERYBODY, PLEASE READ THIS:

(I took quite a lot of time making sure all the pics, links and videos were correctly placed and linked so I would appreciate it if you would take the time to read through it carefully and thoroughly. If an image is too small to read then right-click on it and select "View Image" - This works in Firefox, not sure about other browsers.)

From: www.vox.com...

No other developed country in the world has nearly the same rate of gun violence as does America. The US has nearly six times the number of gun homicides as Canada, more than seven times as Sweden, and nearly 16 times as Germany, according to UN data compiled by the Guardian. (These gun deaths are a big reason America has a much higher overall homicide rate, which includes non-gun deaths, than other developed nations.)

To understand why that is, there's another important statistic: The US has by far the highest private gun ownership rates in the world. The US civilian firearm ownership rate is 88.8 guns per 100 people, meaning there is almost one privately owned gun per American and more than one per American adult. The world's second-ranked country by gun ownership rate is Yemen, a quasi-failed state torn by civil war, where there are 54.8 guns per 100 people.

Another way of looking at that: Americans make up about 4.43 percent of the world's population, yet own roughly 42 percent of all the world's privately held firearms.

That does not, however, mean that every American adult actually owns guns. In fact, gun ownership is concentrated among a minority of the US population — as surveys from the Pew Research Center and General Social Survey suggest.

These three basic facts demonstrate America's unique gun culture. There is a very strong correlation between gun ownership and gun violence — a relationship that researchers argue is at least partly causal. And American gun ownership is beyond anything else in the world. At the same time, these guns are concentrated among a passionate minority, who are typically the loudest critics against any form of gun control and who scare legislators into voting against such measures.

More guns mean more gun deaths. Period.

The research on this is overwhelmingly clear. No matter how you look at the data, more guns means more gun deaths.

This is apparent when you look at state-by-state data within the United States, as this chart from Mother Jones demonstrates:

And it's clear when you look at the data across developed nations, as this other chart by Tewksbury Lab shows:

Opponents of gun control tend to point to other factors to explain America's unusual gun violence: mental illness, for example. Jonathan Metzl, a mental health expert at Vanderbilt University, told me that this is just not the case. People with mental illnesses are more likely to be victims, not perpetrators, of violence. And while it's true that an extraordinary amount of mass shooters (up to 60 percent) have some kind of psychiatric or psychological symptoms, Metzl points out that other factors are much better predictors of gun violence: substance abuse, poverty, history of violence, and, yes, access to guns.

Another argument you sometimes hear is that these shootings would happen less frequently if even more people had guns, thus enabling them to defend themselves from the shooting.

But, again, the data shows this is simply not true. High gun ownership rates do not reduce gun deaths, but rather tend to coincide with increases in gun deaths. And multiple simulations have demonstrated that most people, if placed in an active shooter situation while armed, will not be able to stop the situation, and may in fact do little more than get themselves killed in the process.

This video, from ABC News, shows one such simulation, in which people repeatedly fail to shoot an active shooter before they're shot:

The relationship between gun ownership rates and gun violence rates is well established. Reviews of the evidence by the Harvard School of Public Health's Injury Control Center have consistently found that when controlling for variables such as socioeconomic factors and other crime, places with more guns have more gun deaths.

"Within the United States, a wide array of empirical evidence indicates that more guns in a community leads to more homicide," David Hemenway, the Injury Control Research Center's director, wrote in Private Guns, Public Health.

Experts widely believe this is the consequence of America's relaxed laws and culture surrounding guns: Making more guns more accessible means more guns, and more guns means more deaths. Researchers have found this is true not just with gun homicides, but also with suicides, domestic violence, and even violence against police. To deal with those problems, America will have to not only make guns less accessible, but likely reduce the number of guns in the US as well.

But even with the outrage over gun massacres, the sense that enough is enough, and the clear evidence that the problem is America's high gun ownership rates, there hasn't been significant legislation to help solve the problem.

From: www.vox.com...

The problem people have is your assumption of causation. People with your point of view want an easy answer. There is not.

I could show you a graph of swimming pool deaths is Florida vs Norway.

originally posted by: Kryties

ATTENTION EVERYBODY

Please read THIS POST before it gets lost in the mix.

Why? It has nothing to do with the topic you are screaming at everyone to stick to....."MASS SHOOTINGS" and "POWERFUL WEAPONS"

This post you linked to is hypocritical to your very own request of staying on topic.

Is it that logic is winning out and now you are seeing that guns are NOT the issue?

originally posted by: Kryties

ATTENTION EVERYBODY

Please read THIS POST before it gets lost in the mix.

Mother Jones? Really???

Let's look at some REAL facts...

Here...

You continue to ignore this.

originally posted by: Kryties

ATTENTION EVERYBODY

Please read THIS POST before it gets lost in the mix.

Half of us homicides are suicide. Do we have a higher suicide rate than Japan? What about France?

Another large portion of homicides are gang related illegal guns. What would be more effective spending money on law enforcement, education, and job training, or gun regulation?

a reply to: Kryties

America is insane! One just doesn't have to look at gun violence in America. Just look at our ridiculous healthcare system, the police brutality, our political correctness, our education system, the prison system and of course our insane presidential candidates and politicians!

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting

originally posted by: joemoe
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

All these combination have caused mass murder in the past:

Nutbar + Gun = Problem.
Nutbar + Knife = Problem.
Nutbar + Car = Problem.
Nutbar + Bomb = Problem.
Nutbar + Poison = Problem.
Nutbar + Unlimited Government Power = Problem.

See what is common in all of them? Nutbar. ...... We must regulate Nutbar.

But statistics are not showing that mass murders are being perpetrated with those items. See the OP. Statistics are showing that mass murders are being perpetrated with guns. That's why we call them "shootings".

Yep...good thing this lady in Australia didn't have a "powerful" weapon or she could have killed MORE than 8 kids....side note, anything over 4 is considered "mass".

Source

Eight children have been killed and a woman who was mother to seven of them was injured in the northern Australian city of Cairns, police said on Friday, in what several media outlets reported was a mass stabbing.

Australia is in a state of heightened alert after police stormed a Sydney cafe early on Tuesday to end a 16-hour hostage standoff in which three people were killed, including the hostage-taker.

Queensland state police said in a statement they were called to a house in the Cairns suburb of Manoora just before midday after reports of a woman with serious injuries on the premises.

Crazy that she was able to kill 8 kids and take hostages with a knife right? That is more than most of the "mass shootings" ever killed in a single blow.

Actually it is only 1 less than the Oregon shooter! SHOCKING I KNOW!

a reply to: Vasa Croe

There is still the factor of unknown.

What would it look like if there were no gun regulation and control implemented in AU.

My bet is that homicide rate would have gone up...high.

But, it is unknown, so really not usable, just as your "homicide rate stayed the same there fore, gun control and regulation did nothing" is pretty much not usable either, as we can not see what the control and restriction actually prevented.

Here is an over all homicide chart that maybe or maybe not paints another picture.

SOURCE

originally posted by: IslandOfMisfitToys
a reply to: Sublimecraft

No offense but no wonder Hitler marched straight through Europe without batting an eye.......

That is......until the big bad Americans with guns came to save them........

Oh, that's so correct, the years 1939 - 1942 never occurred did they? America played a key part in WW2, of that there's no question. As did most European and Commonwealth countries and Russia, but I know your history lessons over there get confused.

Anyway, what has that to do with anything apart from the tired old argument that somehow America singlehandedly ended WW2? It's nothing to do with current shootings.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
a reply to: Kryties

LOL! But I thought this thread was about "MASS SHOOTINGS" as you have pointed out so many times on every page, and about "powerful weapons". Don't link stats that have nothing to do with your OP please.

I wouldnt have to link those stats if posters didnt insist on claiming things that are simply not true.

a reply to: johnwick


originally posted by: zerozero00
God damn!!

"Young fella, if you’re looking; for trouble I’ll accommodate ya”

“Don’t say it’s a fine morning or I’ll shoot ya”

“Now you understand. Anything goes wrong, anything at all… your fault, my fault, nobody’s fault… it don’t matter… I’m gonna blow your head off. It’s as simple as that.”


Just a few John wayne quotes



The Duke!!

Good man, great role model!!


ummmmm, no, blowhard overweight draft dodger.

If and when the U.S. legislates that guns are completely illegal, will probably happen never.

You personally, will probably never be asked or ordered to relinquish your guns in the U.S., or be prevented from buying them.

But clearly, we need to take steps to prevent psychotic ,psychopathic or other mentally unstable people from having the ease of walking into a store and purchasing a gun. We need to make it extremely difficult for them to do so. We can do it, and we should do it.