Turning our backs on Islam.

Good.

Turn our backs on them.

Maybe then they'll go back to their countries and FIGHT, rather than run.

But then, we already know that's not the reason all those "refugees" are "fleeing".

a reply to: Kapusta

How can i best explain this to you.

At a point in life i was atheist. My concept of god and spirituality was purely earth based , if that makes sens. Meaning my mind was closed to all other options save for things i could explain useing science . observations if you will.

Ok....so you have seen both ends of the spectrum. I can appreciate that. One question though...how old were you when you started to explore your spirituality ?

What i quickly realized was that , like everything else in life you have to LEARN god to know him.

This I have a problem with...and it relates to awesomeness of the God as retold by religions. Why do you have to learn about God ? Since religions say that God is all and everything...within us and outside us...he is nature he is universe...he is. Undeniable, the creator of everyone of us...how come then his existence and presence is not apparent even to a child he created. How come you have to learn about him...from other people ? I'm just curious as to how you see it.

If you peel back the folds in every religion you will find every religion is the same.

I'm not as learned in religions...but many religious teachings are in direct conflict with each other. For instance...the foundation of the Christian faith is...that Jesus is the son of God...while Islam says...Jesus was just a prophet. By accepting the latter...you in fact deny the foundation of the former...and actually you're saying...this religion is wrong..mine is right.

So they are not the same...as you say it. They are almost in direct conflict as to foundation of their existence. They cant both be right. Either Jesus is son of God...or he isn't. Affirmative on one side...denies the foundation of the other.

This is just one example of the conflicting nature of all religions. The point is...obviously...somebody is wrong. Or maybe both are.

You will find a spiritual understanding that is only explainable by a few short words.

LOVE , compassion . god.

If I were religious...I would agree with this sentiment. But why if it's that simple...you need to LEARN about God. As you say it...it's just few short words. Anyone could understand that.

If you ask me can i prove that god is real or that i am in complete submission to him . i will tell you. , what i feel and what i have experienced is proof enough for me.

I'm perfectly aware that the belief in God is based on faith...so asking for evidence is ridiculous and irrelevant to the discussion about God or religions.

originally posted by: hutch622
a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

The book tells you that...book written by men

Interesting line of thought . Gods will as re told by men . Nothing could go wrong there .

Exactly!! Religion is of man. The books were written by man. Man doesn't have the best track record last I checked. Took me ten pages of reading to find a comment to respond to.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Essentially you're saying respect the religion of Islam.

I don't. I do not respect ANY religion as, for the most part, it's a terrible stain that befell mankind and one we have yet to clean.

Human beings - of course, I can respect them. BUT... I do not have ANY respect for those that come to my country (the UK) and push their religion into our schools and political system and also say any attempt to challenge or condemn their behaviour is a statement of racism.

No. I do not accept your challenge.

a reply to: noonebutme

Essentially you're saying respect the religion of Islam.

No what I am saying is that if you cannot accept the religion then you should accept the individuals rather than stereotyping them as women beating, western hating, suicide bombers.

I do not have ANY respect for those that come to my country (the UK) and push their religion into our schools and political system and also say any attempt to challenge or condemn their behaviour is a statement of racism.

Nor do I, they should not expect us to conform to them yet we should respect their traditions and customs.

If they wish to create a faith school for example, I have no more of a problem with that than I do Catholic schools so long as they adhere to the same standards expected of all schools. However i do take issue with them attempting to covertly take over state schools. likewise so long as they meet the requirements i have no problem with them entering into our political system, I do not fear some Islamic take over of Europe. At the same time i do not think it is racist to challenge behaviour they exhibit that it unbecoming of British citizen such as facilitating forced marriages.

originally posted by: misskat1
a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Maybe if the women didnt walk around with bags covering their whole bodies, the men wouldnt be attracted to very young children. There is a lot about Islam that doesnt work in the US.

It also doesn't help that their prophet is a paedophile. Took a wife aged 6 and consummated that when she was 9. Her name was Aisha. I have a feeling, in deployable uneducated corners of the Muslim world, this is used to justify such practices.

I am against people pushing their belifes on others. Therefore I have a problem with Sharia law. Therefore I have a problem with Muslims who want to leave their homeland and bring their ideology to the west. It will not work. THAT is why "they" should be separated from Western society. And vice versa.

Do I agree with all the laws we have on our books? No. But in the end they promote individual liberty as opposed to blatant religious oppression. I will not support or welcome anyone that supports any religion which is also systematically oppressing themselves, others and is at the very least a fulcrum of violence.

Do I see the irony in not accepting Islam for what it is in all its entirety while also wanting liberty for all? Yes...but such is life.

Maybe they need to take a page from the Amish.

a reply to: Sparkymedic

It also doesn't help that their prophet is a paedophile. Took a wife aged 6 and consummated that when she was 9. Her name was Aisha.

Honestly?

I will copy paste what i have just had to say on another thread.

It is now widely accepted that the mother of Christ was around 12 years old.

In the middle ages it was not seen with the same disgust as it is today, thankfully humanity has moved on and we would now punish such behaviour but it still has to be looked at in the contest of his time in history.

In fact most Islamic countries have a higher age of legal consent for sexual activity than we do in the west.

But in having their own schools this just enforces segregation not to mention they are now changing the curriculum. They don't want sciences, they want their own versions of history. When I was at school in the UK after I left Africa, I don't think we barely noticed those of different faiths, the wore our uniform, mixed & mingled and kept their religion at home. Our Head Boy was a Sikh who is now a quite famous heart surgeon in Birmingham. At a school renunion last year, I asked him and another old chum who was Hindu I believe, if they'd ever been subjected to anything racial at our school. They both said not at all and went on to say that their parents were adamant that they were English and were determined to adapt to the English way of life and yeah they got some jibes from others on the street sometimes but Tariq said most of it wasn't meant in a nasty way just old fashioned 70's humour. They both agreed that maybe if there had been thousands more all in one area at that time, it could have been different as both Indians & Pakistanis are very judgmental of each other and always conscious of what the neighbours might think. He said they were really quite snobbish in their ways.

Humans for whatever reason don't like different I've no idea why. I was a goth in my younger days and boy did I get some carp. My ex husband had long hair and regularly got a kicking for being a scrounging student! He'd never been a student in his life lol legislating and forcing people to accept simply creates undercurrents of tension and frustration, whispers in private, scared of the thought police, terrified of being labelled racist. But I don't see at all that same fear in those we have accepted and tolerated, they laugh at our tolerance and attempts to integrate them.

originally posted by: noonebutme
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Essentially you're saying respect the religion of Islam.

I don't. I do not respect ANY religion as, for the most part, it's a terrible stain that befell mankind and one we have yet to clean.

Human beings - of course, I can respect them. BUT... I do not have ANY respect for those that come to my country (the UK) and push their religion into our schools and political system and also say any attempt to challenge or condemn their behaviour is a statement of racism.

No. I do not accept your challenge.

frankly, I think you hit upon the entire rejection of Islam when those that practice it, come to live in western countries....Muslims form their own communities, they reject the teachings of western culture, they remain isolated from adopting western ideas, and every day western living....for the Muslims out there, its not us that have to adapt to you, it is you that have to adapt to us....if you do not like the way we dress, move back to your country, if you do not like our food, move back to your own country, if you do not like the way your kids would be educated in our schools, then move back to your own country, if you do not like western laws, then move back to your own country. either adapt to the country that has allowed you to immigrate to it (it is not your right, by the way), or get out....it's as simple as that.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Honestly?

I will copy paste what i have just had to say on another thread.

It is now widely accepted that the mother of Christ was around 12 years old.

In the middle ages it was not seen with the same disgust as it is today, thankfully humanity has moved on and we would now punish such behaviour but it still has to be looked at in the contest of his time in history.

In fact most Islamic countries have a higher age of legal consent for sexual activity than we do in the west.

And as I answered IN that previous thread -- what difference does that make IF the fictitious Mary was 12 years old?

For a start, Mary was, *apparently* a virgin so she did not have sexual relations with a man so it doesn't compare to Mohammad having sex with a 9 year old. Or, well, it depends on how God gave her a child. Dirty b*stard.

Second, just because someone ELSE did it doesn't defend the actions of another who did the same thing. "Well your honour, they were ALL having sex with underage children so..you know, it's not MY fault!"

Please. As i posted in the other thread, one of the core foundations religion and the religious try to sway the rest of us is by preaching moral and ethical superiority as theirs is derived from the Devine.

And if you (impersonal, not YOU personally, OtherSideOfTheCoin) believe that which ever God or deity says that's "ok" to make a 12 year old magically pregnant or dictate his final prophet to sleep with a 9 year old then nothing you say can be taken seriously.

a reply to: noonebutme

I am going to stop right here,

I find child abuse a very disturbing subject that I would rather not talk about amymore.

Just know that i understand why you have such strong views on this subject and if we were talking about anyone who lived in recent history i would be wholly agreeing with you.

But like i said its a subject matter that I find really quite disturbing and difficult to discuss so i would rather terminate this avenue of debate.

I am sure however you have many other points of contention you could raise.

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

I was a goth in my younger days

No ?! I would never guessed it looking at you avatar

....accept the human being even if you cannot accept the religion.

That's the crux of this thread. But it's sort of got lost along the way. And of course (most) human beings are only too glad to help out our fellow man (or woman) especially in times of need. But we are less inclined to do say when we feel threatened. I suspect that the constant TV images of streams of immigrants entering Europe every day have hit a nerve with a lot of Europeans. Especially as the majority seem to men in the 18-35 age range who declare their intent to settle in their European nation of choice.

So I can see it from both sides. As a human being there is a moral obligation to assist genuine refugees. But we live in uncertain times. If we leave our borders open we are encouraging more and more immigrants to come to Europe and place even more strain on social systems.

So "yes" we can accept the 'human being' regardless of faith. But the question is how many 'human beings' are we actually prepared to accept?

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: noonebutme

Essentially you're saying respect the religion of Islam.

No what I am saying is that if you cannot accept the religion then you should accept the individuals rather than stereotyping them as women beating, western hating, suicide bombers.

I do not have ANY respect for those that come to my country (the UK) and push their religion into our schools and political system and also say any attempt to challenge or condemn their behaviour is a statement of racism.

Nor do I, they should not expect us to conform to them yet we should respect their traditions and customs.

Now that sounds like an oxymoron to me..

*** deleted by author ***

a reply to: mirageman

How come every time you post in one of my threads you say what I am trying to say in a few lines what takes me at least 500 words to get across.

You are totally right about the main message behind this thread getting lost but this is ATS, by page two comments always stray off topic.

I think its interesting what you say about the strain on our social services particularly in Italy and in Greece where their economies are already on breaking point now having to deal with a huge influx in their population. That is why we need a global response rather than a few already weekend states taking the bulk of the burden.

Also on the issue of it mostly being young men, there is a reason for this that i was reading about recently, most families see the journey into Europe to be very dangerous with the possibility of asylum being denied or dying on the journey. For that reason many of the men in a family will head to Europe in attempt to get asylum granted for them, then send for their families who are then able to take a much safer rout into what ever state has granted the asylum.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: Sparkymedic

It also doesn't help that their prophet is a paedophile. Took a wife aged 6 and consummated that when she was 9. Her name was Aisha.

Honestly?

It is now widely accepted that the mother of Christ was around 12 years old.

You'll have to come up with some proof on this one my friend, because that is absolutely false..

a reply to: tony9802

Just a quick Google search will suffice

Like I said however to the above member its a avenue of debate i dont wish to discuss further.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Of course its disturbing and so it should be, but sticking ya fingers in ya ears and humming loudly doesn't help. I doubt there is a person on this forum anywhere that doesn't find it sickening and disturbing.You attacked me regarding my post of the African superstition of curing AIDS by having sex with children, you have tried to justify the paedophilia relating to Islam's prophet and refused to answer or acknowledge my legitimate concerns regarding allowing people with those cultural views to live in the West. This "whole avenue of debate" is part and parcel of the problem like it or not. If you don't want to discuss it that's fine its your choice entirely, but dismissing facts as lies and trying to justify it or closing your ears to it, is the type of denial that leads to the huge rise in child abuse. I hope you understand my meaning there

If the facts are known, why would anyone want the people that believe in their culture of child abuse to live in the West? The Afghanis and their dreadful practice of bacha bazi will not change their beliefs simply because they are living in London. This makes them a risk we cannot afford. Sweden is now finding this out for themselves and can't cope.

We don't have to turn our backs on Islam but many are now choosing to. Its a self preservation thing