Turning our backs on Islam.

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

Call it what you will but no, I do not want my thread turning into a discussion about sickening paedophilia, if you feel so strongly about this then go create a thread on it to discuss it further.

I have said all I will on the subject, please respect that for me its a topic I find deeply disturbing and would rather not now have the next few pages of this thread dominated by this subject matter. and to be 100% clear i am not condoning anything.

I hope this is the end of it.

a reply to: Power_Semi

It's not about believing in nothing so save your childish soundbites - it's about "sceptics" or whatever you choose to call us believing in what we can measure and observe in the real world, not believing in fairy tales that someone in a cave 2000 years ago dreamed up.

You call it "dreamed up fairy tales" thats dismissive as it gets. But you mean the spirit world, right?

How would you know if something exists or not if you've never seen it?

By the way, I'm as big as "skeptic" (US spelling) gets on ATS.

For witnesses its no longer a matter of belief.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: tony9802

Just a quick Google search will suffice

Like I said however to the above member its a avenue of debate i dont wish to discuss further.

My google search devices do not originate in S. Arabia, unlike yours! The mother of J. Christ was not twelve years old when she was summoned to give birth to the Messiah..how old would that possibly then make Joseph? Thirteen?

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

the real fear in western Europe (and not talked about in polite company) is the fear of the "Caucasian European" being bred out of existence within a few generations

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Believe me I wasn't even trying to do so, I was merely trying to show reasons why there is fear and why people HAVE turned their backs on Islam.

originally posted by: jimmyx
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

the real fear in western Europe (and not talked about in polite company) is the fear of the "Caucasian European" being bred out of existence within a few generations

But we have a Muslim population right now of about 4-8% and while it is expected to grow to about 10% in 2050 research also shows that beading between Muslims slows after a generation in Europe so it seems highly unlikely that they will breed us out of existence.

a reply to: jimmyx

I disagree with you on that point as its highly unlikely the Muslims will breed as you put it with non muslims anyway. It just means the population of Muslims will grow and grow, maybe to unsustainable levels in countries that are already struggling with their own indigenous population

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: jimmyx

I disagree with you on that point as its highly unlikely the Muslims will breed as you put it with non muslims anyway. It just means the population of Muslims will grow and grow, maybe to unsustainable levels in countries that are already struggling with their own indigenous population

I agree with you on this to a extent.

At least in the short term the influx of refugees heading into the fragile economies of Greece and Italy could cause huge problems unless we take a global effort the shear the burden between us.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
I find child abuse a very disturbing subject that I would rather not talk about amymore.

So do I and any right-thinking individual should!

But bringing it back to the main OP, (and trying to avoid mentioning child abuse) - your post was about "Turning our backs in Islam" as though, due to recent historical and political events, *we* are somehow to blame for their ("their" being muslim) behaviour and general "we're feeling sad" attitude.

I still bring it back to what is it that their (or any) religion brings to a society? Oppression. Conforming. Servitude. Fear.

How do they engage in that and dictate it? They argue they have a Devine power or "right" to say and act how they do. And again, going back to the topic I won't actually say, are those behaviours, which are freely admonished in their texts, really something a Just and Right, Devine entity would espouse?

I think not. But these are the basis of where their beliefs and behaviours come from.

So no, I WILL turn my back on them and if they come to my country, UPHOLD our beliefs, our morals and ethical values - leave yours back in the countries THEY ARE FLEEING FROM.

originally posted by: tony9802

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: tony9802

Just a quick Google search will suffice

Like I said however to the above member its a avenue of debate i dont wish to discuss further.

My google search devices do not originate in S. Arabia, unlike yours! The mother of J. Christ was not twelve years old when she was summoned to give birth to the Messiah..how old would that possibly then make Joseph? Thirteen?

c'mon people....this is from a book written by men over 1500 years ago, that believed locusts infestations were a sign by god, earthquakes a sign by god, floods were done by god, even though now, it is known that none of that is true...but....other parts of the bible are held to be true...really?....the hocus pocus of religious belief should be private, in your own home and/or church, period........can't we be enlightened, and therefore freed, from these ancient mythical cults?

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: mirageman

Also on the issue of it mostly being young men, there is a reason for this that i was reading about recently, most families see the journey into Europe to be very dangerous with the possibility of asylum being denied or dying on the journey. For that reason many of the men in a family will head to Europe in attempt to get asylum granted for them, then send for their families who are then able to take a much safer rout into what ever state has granted the asylum.

We are talking about WAR ZONE, how can Europe be more dangerous than staying in WAR ZONE ?
As we saw in one video clip where Syrian man was complaining that train was filled with Iraqi and Afghanistan men and them from Syria who came to seek asylum with their families were left out of trains. Iraq and Afghanistan are not war zones and are considered safe by EU to stay.

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Believe me I wasn't even trying to do so, I was merely trying to show reasons why there is fear and why people HAVE turned their backs on Islam.

I don't believe anyone has turned their back on Islam..I think people are finally beginning to confront the truth about this undeniably disturbing faith.. My feelings are that since 9/11, most people have been uncomfortable with confronting islamic cultural space and history..Finally now, after almost 15 years, more and more people are able to stand some ground against a belief system that is inherently opposite to their (western) own.. Stay strong, be opnionated and eloquent about sharing your worries and apprehension about this the islamic faith and culture: it is not compatible with western democracy, in any way imaginable-- sharia law simply is not western law;

originally posted by: dollukka

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: mirageman

Also on the issue of it mostly being young men, there is a reason for this that i was reading about recently, most families see the journey into Europe to be very dangerous with the possibility of asylum being denied or dying on the journey. For that reason many of the men in a family will head to Europe in attempt to get asylum granted for them, then send for their families who are then able to take a much safer rout into what ever state has granted the asylum.

We are talking about WAR ZONE, how can Europe be more dangerous than staying in WAR ZONE ?

Its the Journey out of the war zone and then then actually journey to Europe they have to basically walk through the war zone then find a friendly smuggler who will help them out for a huge cost and may kill them in the process to get into Europe.

There are families who make the trip together but there are many who chose to send of the husband and a son and then they apply for asylum for the whole family.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Edited my post to add.. see the logic !
would you leave your family in the War Zone and go find asylum by yourself. Do you really think that staying in War Zone is much more safer than taking a risk getting out even through "War Zone" .
In my country during WW2 when Russian approached to Karelia, finns evacuated whole families out there they didn´t pick just men.. all of them left !

a reply to: dollukka

Iraq and Afghanistan are not war zones and are considered safe by EU to stay.

You do know that ISIS are taking over Iraq right?

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: tony9802

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: tony9802

Just a quick Google search will suffice

Like I said however to the above member its a avenue of debate i dont wish to discuss further.

My google search devices do not originate in S. Arabia, unlike yours! The mother of J. Christ was not twelve years old when she was summoned to give birth to the Messiah..how old would that possibly then make Joseph? Thirteen?

c'mon people....this is from a book written by men over 1500 years ago, that believed locusts infestations were a sign by god, earthquakes a sign by god, floods were done by god, even though now, it is known that none of that is true...but....other parts of the bible are held to be true...really?....the hocus pocus of religious belief should be private, in your own home and/or church, period........can't we be enlightened, and therefore freed, from these ancient mythical cults?

Yes, the story of the book was written a very long time ago, and yes people during that time and in that levantine region, were superstitious and believed in god, gods, and many other gods; I am trying to point out, that within this "tale" as you see fit to name it, that the mother of jesus christ, was not 12 years old when she gave birth to the god of the Christian faith.

Whether you do or do not believe the story, that's up to you..I am merely making commentary on the curious notion that Miriam was possibly a twelve year old when she gave birth..seems a bit strange to me, and hence the reason why I choose to point it out.

Thanks jimmy..

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: noonebutme
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Essentially you're saying respect the religion of Islam.

I don't. I do not respect ANY religion as, for the most part, it's a terrible stain that befell mankind and one we have yet to clean.

Human beings - of course, I can respect them. BUT... I do not have ANY respect for those that come to my country (the UK) and push their religion into our schools and political system and also say any attempt to challenge or condemn their behaviour is a statement of racism.

No. I do not accept your challenge.

frankly, I think you hit upon the entire rejection of Islam when those that practice it, come to live in western countries....Muslims form their own communities, they reject the teachings of western culture, they remain isolated from adopting western ideas, and every day western living....for the Muslims out there, its not us that have to adapt to you, it is you that have to adapt to us....if you do not like the way we dress, move back to your country, if you do not like our food, move back to your own country, if you do not like the way your kids would be educated in our schools, then move back to your own country, if you do not like western laws, then move back to your own country. either adapt to the country that has allowed you to immigrate to it (it is not your right, by the way), or get out....it's as simple as that.

I rarely agree with you, but on this point, I certainly do.

In any event, the fact that there are millions of people flooding out of that region to escape their own extremists rather than standing and fighting for their homelands should be the first clue as to just how many extremists there really are. I doubt its a small number. In any case, I have a very hard time believing that a group of people with a history of infighting and that can't reconcile their own differences amongst themselves will somehow integrate into a western society largely based in Christian cultural values and beliefs. Further, when I see a disproportionate number of young men of fighting age amongst these 'refugees', I'm more than a little suspicious of exactly what kind of people are now pouring across into Europe. Sure, some of them are decent people trying to escape to a more peaceful life, but somehow, I have a feeling that much of Europe is about to get a hard lesson that multiculturalism isn't all its cracked up to be.

a reply to: tony9802

erm little harsh there don't you think? sheeesh!

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: dollukka

Iraq and Afghanistan are not war zones and are considered safe by EU to stay.

You do know that ISIS are taking over Iraq right?

French and Russian troops are combatting ISIS right now, at least there's that..all just before the Blood Red Moon of September 27th..