F-22s deploy to Europe

According to the Polish media, the aircraft will leave Germany Monday, and head to Poland, possibly to Lask, where they're going to train with Polish F-16s

All 4 of them - we are saved!!

Seriously nice entrance though, what is the small smoking pod under the aircraft?

Is this a full on deployment combat ready weapons and all that or just a tour to train with Europe and Nato and show the Russians what a 5th Generation Stealth Fighter is and that is can be deployed?

a reply to: Forensick

Not a smoking pod. The smoke is coming from a bleed vent for the engine.

a reply to: yuppa

Definitely this! I'll go stand in whatever line to see something as impressive as what BASSey got to see out west, or a visit by a dude in uniform with an "rk" patch on his arm or something. I've been mostly good mostly all year!

The weirdness I've been witness to was pretty ordinary stuff (seeing high altitude nighttime transits on burner and the like). Bring on the ATS melting goodness!

a reply to: shagg

I've seen several things buzzing around. They pop up all over the place. You just have to be lucky to be in the right place at the right time.

a reply to: Zaphod58cannot miniaturize? your cellphone transmits and receives on around 5 freqs in the 700 to 1.2 gig ranges, and is surprisingly powerful. You will notice it gets warm if you use it much. the rf energy is heating your hand..or ear. so the russians need a big box to defeat opponents radars does not make a lot of sense.
Now your comment on Veterans today, and their story on aliens off california, as bunk, and therefore a reason to ignore veteranstoday is silly, there are 20 to 30 writers and editors there and each one has more experience than I and most likely you. one clunker is not a reason to condemn, just like the multiple clunkers on ATS does not lead me to ignore it.
Now, your comment on radar and how different Aegis must be from your ship radar.
the biggest threat to a carrier fleet is and incoming Yakhont missile , 1200 mph, 20 feet above the sea, 500 lb warhead. 10 minutes from discovery assuming launch from 200 miles away. Aegis is going to be really busy.
Lots of Aegis radar pulses, lots of frequencies etc. You think the Russians do not know this and cannot modify a cell phone transceiver to respond?
Now what are these Aegis pulse trains like? It happens I was sailing in the st Thomas region, Navy came to town, and set up a defensive perimeter...replete with sonar pulses to find the enemy. it was nothing like one would expect, having used a sonar depth and fishfinder. the pings were incredibly loud and clear a mile from any source..and were always different in spacing frequency and wave form. an instant reflection...it was that way to prevent an opponent from spoofing a response. by the time a target has heard the ping, the reflection is heading back, and there is never enough time to configure a spoof response.
Now if i can figure this out, and apply it to Aegis, you can bet the russians did too years ago, and worked out electronics i cannot imagine.

a reply to: darkstar57

Russia has ALWAYS had a problem miniaturizing just about anything. It's a known fact that continues to this day. And miniaturizing something that uses this much power to fit inside an aircraft is going to be a bitch and a half for anyone. Boeing finally managed to get it small enough to fit into a large cruise missile with CHAMP, but it still won't fit inside an aircraft, because the aircraft doesn't produce enough power for it to fire. But you're seriously going to compare an HPM to a cell phone? Why not a hand grenade to a nuclear weapon?

But let's look a little deeper into the system in question. The Su-24 allegedly used a Khibiny system, which is supposedly a High Powered Microwave device that shut the ship down. Two problems there, fairly significant ones. The Khibiny isn't an HPM system, it's a radar jamming system. It's also very small, and designed for aircraft self defense at short ranges. The pods for the receiver/transmitter fit on wingtip rails on fighters.

That's part of the Khibiny system on the wingtip.

If the Cook was disabled by an HPM, how did it manage to get to port under its own power? An HPM would wipe out everything not just the radar. That means it would have drifted until another ship managed to get there and take it under tow to get it back to port, where it would have required major and obvious repairs. Not just "Oh we're at port, everyone that wants off is free to do so" and then back to cruising.

I'm well aware of Veterans Today, and how they work. That was just one story that they got completely wrong. In many years on ATS reading stories posted by them, I have yet to see one in which they were right. They post all kinds of sensationalist stories that turn out to be not even close to the truth usually, and at best have a kernel of truth to them. Like this one. The Cook was in the Black Sea, and an Su-24 did fly around them before leaving. That was it.

As for the Aegis, do you seriously think that the designers haven't been keeping up with advances in counter systems, and just designed it and said "It's good enough", and ignored it? HPMs have been in development for decades, and using them to counter radar has been one of the first things they tried. Just because you have a similar radar, and have seen how they work doesn't mean they don't have protections against all kinds of things in them.

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie


Are the f-22s meant to be the spec ops of the skies? if they are then their cover is blown.

That would be AFSOC.

As much as it pains to me to say this: I'd still take the Su-37 over the F-22 or F-35 any day of the week

a reply to: darkstar57

Are you an electronics engineer or communications engineer?

originally posted by: C0bzz
a reply to: darkstar57

Are you an electronics engineer or communications engineer?

Sounded to me like he was a recreational fisherman!

If you look at the DASS Pods on the EFA wingtips you will see little air inlets:



And they might cool some nasty chemical that can remove heat from electrickery...yeah, its probably not even used in cooling commercial overclocking due to its nastiness but maybe here we are with it in a 1990's design.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: Zaphod58


Everybody likes to bash military equipment even though they have no clue.
I remember back in the 80's people were dogging on the Bradley. They said it's aluminum and a t72 round will go right through the damn thing. But they didn't bother to mention it was a replacement for an apc and not a tank. That it was a vast improvement over the vehicle it was replacing.
Guess that don't make headlines

did you not see the "The Pentagon Wars" ? or read the book it was based on

a reply to: C0bzz
try to read for understanding of the points made, not the certifications of person making the point.

a reply to: yuppa

That's for the crazy triangles.

this will just be cool

Two F-22s, four F-16s, and a C-130 departed Germany for Poland. The F-16s are part of a continuous presence there working with the Polish air force, training them on how to get the most out of their Vipers.

www.spangdahlem.af.mil...

a reply to: Zaphod58
the CHAMP system is designed to overload any electronics, even turned off, with a emp blast. its dumb but effective. sending a tailored emp signal to a fire control radar at just the moment the receive gate is open is smart and doesnt take much power. and the electronics to create such a signal and timing are likely already commercially available, the cell phone and the frequency scanner , and weigh ounces. If I implied that all the electroncs on the Cook were destroyed, I shouldnt have.
I got a chinese freq scanner for 60 bucks that covers 100 hertz to gigs and instantly shows the loudest freq in the read out. and by the way, for another 60 i got a chinese dashboard cam with a quarter sized gps....
So blinding the Aegis electronics that would detect an incoming Yakhont would be gameover for any US Navy vessel in range..which they certainly were. And their presence in the Black Sea was absolutely a calculated confrontation with Russia. So heading for port may have been the Cooks signal..we quit for now.
your point that Aegis will have counter measures is absolutely certain. But they cannot overcome the physics of EM. To counter and detect an incoming Yakhont, which is also changing course, you must be sending out high power radar pulse trains. there is nothing else that can track a 1200 mph object close to sea water..which will also be reflecting radar. If there is , well, then I am wrong.
The black sea is russias front door, look at Odessa, Crimea, and Georgia...russia is not playing games anymore. the Cook was going to take a yakhont up the butt if they did not back down, and blinding their aegis radars proved the next step was coming. Recall the Cuban missile crisis? most dont. the russians certainly do. draw a 600 km circle about the Cooks position when it changed course for port. How many Yakhont/onyx launch sites are in there? and note the Yakhont has inertial guidance so it cannot be blinded, and HARM, ie, targets tracking radars.
so now a return of your rhetoric. do you seriously think Aegis can overcome physics????? show me how they can.

Please dont use labeling to discredit those you disagree with...like the veterans today crowd. here is an intellectual yahkont for you...look into their documentation for why and how WTC was a nuclear event. Download and read particularly their source documents on how to build a mini nuke. You are going to need an advanced degree in nuclear physics to comment on the possibility that the basis for building a high radiation and EMP device with low explosive profile is there.

a reply to: darkstar57

And to shut the radar down hard like that would cause significant damage to the systems. A lot more than stopping in port, dropping 27 people off, and going back to sea. It would have been undergoing repairs for days at minimum, just to get basic radar functioning again.

The system supposedly used by the Su-24 is actually well known by the west, as it has been in use for quite awhile now. It's not capable of firing any kind of beam that would knock out Aegis. It's very similar to the AN/ALQ-165 used on the F-16, but not quite as good.

CHAMP doesn't use EMP. It's an HPM. The system supposedly used by the Su-24 is permanently mounted on the aircraft while it's being built, it's not carried externally.

Funny how it's repeatedly reported that US ships stopped going anywhere near Russian waters, but the US and NATO have had a more or less constant presence in the Black Sea even after this supposed event.

a reply to: Zaphod58
sorry, i replied to myself without noticing.. here is what i meant to say to you.

I dont see much difference between EMP and HPM... electromagnetic pulse and high powered microwave...an EMP will contain thousands of freqs, an HPM a few tuned to the target, think a bunch of magnetrons like your 2.4 gig microwave. An emp is from the sudden acceleration of gazillions of ions to different speeds, directions and distances. lots of freqs, lots of power, depending on the blast strength.
and i imagine the russians, if planning an attack using the yakhont against aegis, would first send in a flock of cheap fast inertially guided rockets with emps driven by chemical explosives...that just have to explode nearby to be effective.