Omsk UFO Report Aug 22

a reply to: Scdfa

No one claimed it was a flying saucer? Or that they witnessed aliens? No claims of abduction? No?
Nope.

Anyone have missing time?
Electronic interference?
Did anyone claim to see the rocket perform any unusual acceleration or deceleration?
Anyone report the object hovering, or making impossible zig-zag changes in course?
Any claims that the object hovered overhead, or that the object had....

Lets be fair. Did Jim claim any of that being reported? No. So relax. I'm not following your objection at all. I am certain that we all would like to be able to distinguish a rocket launch from a "real" UFO.

There is definitely a link between rocket events and UFO reports. It may not be a one to one relationship.

If there were reports like the ones you described, would you think it was due to the rocket or would assume that an alien craft was there and the rocket launch was a cover?

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

....Jim is simply using a title that may more likely be clicked by his intended audience. He may be engaging in a bit of shameless click-baiting, (or, as Gortex called it, "Preemptive Mocking"), but whatever....

Whatever. Despite sanguine assumptions about how easy it is to distinguish rocket launches from UFO reports, my own data files indicate just the opposite -- that rocket launchings and other space/missile activity have been a significant source of even some of the most canonical and 'unsolvable' UFO cases for fifty years.

Aside from the Norway spiral, there was another 'spiral' from an entirely different rocket program, seen over Omsk, Russia, the following day, and it was exactly the same type of rocket launch that occurred a few days ago, the one I noted. Earlier flights of that series sparked massive UFO reports in the Israel/Syria area several years ago, and when one was seen by chance from aboard the space station in 2013, it again swept the internet as a UFO. The following summer, a spiral over Australia [a Space-X Falcon booster venting fuel] hit the headlines, and a similar apparition in 1986 from a Japanese rocket over the US East Coast has become a legend in Dan Aykroyd's mind because of his claim of getting a midnight telepathic message from it to 'come outside and look'. Soviet semi-synchronous satellite launches in the 1970s and 1980s scheduled secondary rocket firings over Argentina, sparking a series of wide-area OVNI panics.

I can also remaind you of the 1978 Petrozavodsk 'jellyfish', the 1984 Minsk airliner case [with radar and physical trace elements], the Canary Island sightings of the 1970s [Trident missile tests], and a series of cases in the Haines registry of EMI effects of UFO encounters -- where the encounter was a missile launch and the EMI effects apparently random occurrences tied into the unrelated launch sighting. And the connection of fireball swarm reentries of space debris with ground reports of giant mother ship flyovers is compelling -- but anathema to the UFO community.

Characterizing the degree to which documented stimuli, such as rocket launches and reentries lead to UFO reports, seems to me a productive approach to understanding the degree to which witness reports of once-in-a-lifetime spectacles can be 'enhanced' by memory fill-in and cued-up previous perceptions, which is a standard feature of all fully functional visual recognition processes. But with UFO reports, this may be a still unappreciated source of distortion of recollected raw perceptions.

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

I'm thinking Jim's purpose is to pre-empt and educate those people who may see this and start another UFO/trans-dimensional portal blog.

Well, then I sincerely thank him for his tireless efforts to educate those people.
I'm thinking my purpose may be to pre-empt and educate those people who may see this thread and think it has any bearing on the very real phenomenon of flying saucers, triangles, alien contact and alien abductions.

I certainly defer the the OP on all matters regarding rocketry, his specialized area of knowledge.

And let me reiterate my great appreciation for the great work NASA used to do fifty years ago, getting our heroic astronauts to the moon, heroes like Ed Mitchell and Col. Gordon Cooper.
Both of whom knew alien contact to be a reality.

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

Jim is simply using a title that may more likely be clicked by his intended audience. He may be engaging in a bit of shameless click-baiting, (or, as Gortex called it, "Preemptive Mocking"), but whatever.

I see. But I find that hard to believe. I'm certain the OP is deeply concerned only with uncovering the truth about alien contact.
And if he has chosen to investigate the phenomenon systematically, by examining only sightings that are rockets and missile launches first, then we should be patient and appreciate the scientific method at work.

originally posted by: Scdfa
a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

....And let me reiterate my great appreciation for the great work NASA used to do fifty years ago, getting our heroic astronauts to the moon, heroes like Ed Mitchell and Col. Gordon Cooper.
Both of whom knew alien contact to be a reality.

Uh, Cooper never got to the moon, he was in line for a mission [by bizarre coincidence, Mitchell would have been his LM co-pilot] but was dropped when his associates realized he'd lost his edge. Sad story.

Mitchell and Cooper had their own personal views on UFOs, but both agreed -- NASA had no UFO secrets and no astronaut they knew of had ever encountered anything UFO-like on a space flight. Do you accept their opinion on that?

a reply to: JimOberg

Uh, Cooper never got to the moon

Yes, I know.
In fact, I posted a complete list of his accomplishes, awards, citations and medals in response to a poster who repeatedly tries to tarnish Colonel Cooper's reputation and importance as a true American hero.

For the life of me, I can't remember who that poster was. Ah well, he's not important.

But let me see if I can find that list of Col. Cooper's accomplishments and awards, and I will post it here.

Uh, Cooper never got to the moon, he was in line for a mission [by bizarre coincidence, Mitchell would have been his LM co-pilot] but was dropped when his associates realized he'd lost his edge. Sad story.

Actually, Col. Cooper is a hero, and his story is far from sad. His accomplishments speak for themselves:

Gordon Cooper's first flight assignment came in 1950 at Landstuhl Air Base, West Germany, where he flew F-84 Thunderjets and F-86 Sabres for four years. He later became flight commander of the 525th Fighter Bomber Squadron. Cooper was then assigned to the Experimental Flight Test School at Edwards Air Force Base in California, and after graduation was posted to the Flight Test Engineering Division at Edwards, where he served as a test pilot and project manager testing the F-102A and F-106B. He corrected several deficiencies in the F-106, saving the U.S. Air Force a great deal of money.
Cooper logged more than 7,000 hours of flight time, with 4,000 hours in jet aircraft. He flew all types of commercial and general aviation airplanes and helicopters.

Shortly after this he was called to Washington, D.C., for a NASA briefing on Project Mercury. Cooper went through the selection process with the other 109 pilots and was accepted as the youngest of the first seven American astronauts.
Cooper specialized in the Redstone rocket (and developed a personal survival knife, the Model 17 "Astro" from Randall Made Knives, for astronauts to carry). He also chaired the Emergency Egress Committee, responsible for working out emergency launch pad procedures for escape. Cooper served as capsule communicator (CAPCOM) for Alan Shepard's first sub-orbital spaceflight in Mercury-Redstone 3 (Freedom 7) and Scott Carpenter's flight on Mercury-Atlas 7 (Aurora 7). He was backup pilot for Wally Schirra in Mercury-Atlas 8 (Sigma 7).

Cooper was launched into space on May 15, 1963, aboard the Mercury-Atlas 9 (Faith 7) spacecraft, the last Mercury mission. He orbited the Earth 22 times and logged more time in space than all five previous Mercury astronauts combined—34 hours, 19 minutes and 49 seconds—traveling 546,167 miles (878,971 km) at 17,547 mph (28,239 km/h), pulling a maximum of 7.6 g (74.48 m/s²). Cooper achieved an altitude of 165.9 statute miles (267 km) at apogee. He was the first American astronaut to sleep not only in orbit but on the launch pad during a countdown.

Toward the end of the Faith 7 flight there were mission-threatening technical problems. During the 19th orbit, the capsule had a power failure. Carbon dioxide levels began rising, and the cabin temperature jumped to over 100 degrees Fahrenheit. Cooper turned to his understanding of star patterns, took manual control of the tiny capsule and successfully estimated the correct pitch for re-entry into the atmosphere. Some precision was needed in the calculation, since if the capsule came in too steep, g-forces would be too large, and if its trajectory were too shallow, it would shoot out of the atmosphere again, back into space. Cooper drew lines on the capsule window to help him check his orientation before firing the re-entry rockets. "So I used my wrist watch for time," he later recalled, "my eyeballs out the window for attitude. Then I fired my retrorockets at the right time and landed right by the carrier." Cooper's cool-headed performance and piloting skills led to a basic rethinking of design philosophy for later space missions.

Who among us has accomplished anything by comparison?
Not I.

Air Force Master Astronaut badge

Legion of Merit Distinguished Flying Cross with cluster

NASA Distinguished Service Medal

NASA Exceptional Service Medal American Campaign Medal World War II Victory Medal

Army of Occupation Medal with GERMANY Clasp National Defense Service Medal with one star

Air Force Longevity Service Award with four clusters

Cooper received many other awards including the Collier Trophy,

The Harmon Trophy

The DeMolay Legion of Honor

The John F. Kennedy Trophy

The Iven C. Kincheloe Award

The Air Force Association Trophy,

The John J. Montgomery Award

The General Thomas D. White Trophy

The University of Hawaii Regents Medal

The Columbus Medal

The Silver Antelope Award.

He was a Master Mason (member of Carbondale Lodge # 82 in Carbondale, Colorado)

He was given the honorary 33rd Degree by the Scottish Rite Masonic body

The Gordon Cooper Technology Center in Shawnee, Oklahoma is named after Cooper.

Cooper was inducted into the International Space Hall of Fame in 1981 and into the U.S. Astronaut Hall of Fame on May 11, 1990.

And Cooper was outspoken in his understanding of the reality of alien contact. Which was another important accomplishment of Col. Cooper that we should be grateful for.
Rather than attack him for, I would think.

originally posted by: Scdfa
......
And Cooper was outspoken in his understanding of the reality of alien contact. Which was another important accomplishment of Col. Cooper that we should be grateful for.

Rather than attack him for, I would think.

So when he shows up and asks you for your life savings because you'll make a fortune investing in an aviation startup, you would unquestionbingly hand it all over?

Like hundreds of people, who thought exactly as you advocate, did, in the 1980s?

And lost, altogether , millions of dollars as the schemes collapsed?

How did your plan to trust Cooper's words without needing to verify, work out for THEM?

Too bad you didn't have the personal opportunity to pay that tuition fee and learn a lesson.

Doublecheck everybody.

It's not too late for you to contribute to some of those impoverished folks who according to you did nothing wrong.

[Cooper was only foolish, he lost his own money too, no indication he was in on the scams, just another victim who talked many of his colleagues into falling victim too. ]

Re UFO stories, ALL independent investigations of the Edwards 1957 story indicate that the object never landed, Cooper was never involved, and the films are safely and accessible in the Blue Book archives. Why are we supposed to disbelieve that?

And the Mercury-9 "Cooper UFO encounter" is a whole-cloth fabrication by a writer, Cooper wasn't even involved, except to deny it ever happened.

a reply to: JimOberg

So when he shows up and asks you for your life savings because you'll make a fortune investing in an aviation startup, you would unquestionbingly hand it all over?

Like hundreds of people, who thought exactly as you advocate, did, in the 1980s?

And lost, altogether , millions of dollars as the schemes collapsed?

How did your plan to trust Cooper's words without needing to verify, work out for THEM?

Too bad you didn't have the personal opportunity to pay that tuition fee and learn a lesson.

Folks, I'm not certain how to respond to this. Or if I even should.
I'm not certain it is appropriate for me to do so, I promised a friend that I would not be drawn into arguments, or mud-slinging on this site anymore, and that I would not be baited by tactics that I take issue with.

And this probably qualifies. But I'd like to take a look at what's being said and how it's being said.

One might infer from Mr. Oberg's portrayal of events, that Colonel Cooper "showed up" at people's doors and demanded their life savings. Which they "unquestioningly" hand over!
Wow. Isn't that robbery?

And Oberg goes on to say his "schemes" collapsed.
Here is the dictionary definition of the word "scheme":
verb
3rd person present: scheme
1.
make plans, especially in a devious way or with intent to do something illegal or wrong.

Wow again.
Sounds like fraud as well as robbery! Somebody get that astronaut!

Or is the TRUTH of the matter simply that investors willingly chose to invest whatever amount they chose to invest, in an aviation start-up that failed. In which Col. Cooper lost money as well.

Some people are skilled at deception. Not me, mind you. And probably not Colonel Gordon Cooper.

Too bad you didn't have the personal opportunity to pay that tuition fee and learn a lesson.

Yes, well, as much as I appreciate your wishing financial failures on me, I assure you I have lost money on investments in the past, and will in the future, that is, of course, unavoidable.

But let's not let the conversation descend to that level.
I have said my peace on Col. Cooper, and I don't want to get into some tit-for-tat argument.
Please, let's get back on topic.

Now, how many people in Uzbekistan mistook this missile launch for an alien ship? I think it was somewhere around zero if I remember correctly?

a reply to: Scdfa

I promised a friend that I would not be drawn into arguments by dirty, underhanded mud-slinging on this site anymore, and that I would not be drawn into addressing petty smear tactics no matter how offensive.

I bet your friend is kicking himself right now.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

I bet your friend is kicking himself right now.

If you lose money on that bet, just don't blame it on Col. Cooper.

Additional eyewitness reports have been found in local newspaper in Astrakhan, where people saw the ascent plume, but did not report the 3rd stage burn. But I've searched four local newspaper websites in Kazakhstan and found zilch.

Here are a few charts about Russian media coverage of the most recent launch, and a list of these missions -- one was the day after the Norway spiral, the June 2012 flight was seen [as a UFO] in Israel, Oct 2013 was seen from the space station.... a famous series of stories...

These flights have all ended so far with the brief spiral associated with warhead deployment and spinup, here's the best view I've found of that spectacular apparition -- and I'm still looking for indications it occurred this time.



ADD

Two videos from Uzbekistan, poor quality, but I can't see the termination spiral.

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

So just to be clear, no one anywhere mistook this 2015 missile launch for an alien ship?

originally posted by: Scdfa
So just to be clear, no one anywhere mistook this 2015 missile launch for an alien ship?

Looks like there are no "stacked decks" either.

originally posted by: Scdfa
So just to be clear, no one anywhere mistook this 2015 missile launch for an alien ship?

Not at all clear, as the chart of UFO headlines was supposed to indicate.

Another witness DID believe it was the ghosts of 24 local soldiers killed recently in a barracks collapse.

And many did indeed figure it was a rocket because they'd seen it before.

As the record shows, the FIRST time people see something really weird in the sky, 'UFO' is often the first interpretation to come to mind based simply on cultural conditioning. Subsequent experience with more prosaic causes can reduce the percentage of this, but it still happened, as the citations I gave do show.

And I did mention the famous 'Norway Spiral' -- is there anybody still insisting it was NOT a Russian missile?

Anybody?

originally posted by: JimOberg

originally posted by: Scdfa
So just to be clear, no one anywhere mistook this 2015 missile launch for an alien ship?

Not at all clear, as the chart of UFO headlines was supposed to indicate.

Another witness DID believe it was the ghosts of 24 local soldiers killed recently in a barracks collapse.

And many did indeed figure it was a rocket because they'd seen it before.

As the record shows, the FIRST time people see something really weird in the sky, 'UFO' is often the first interpretation to come to mind based simply on cultural conditioning. Subsequent experience with more prosaic causes can reduce the percentage of this, but it still happened, as the citations I gave do show.

And I did mention the famous 'Norway Spiral' -- is there anybody still insisting it was NOT a Russian missile?

Anybody?

UFO means unidentified flying object. Any evidence that ANYONE thought it was an alien ship?

my preliminary report is on line
www.jamesoberg.com...

a reply to: JimOberg

I'm sorry but I wouldn't go to your website. You did start this thread here, so let's continue the discussion right here.

So let me ask once again:

Is there ANY evidence showing that ANYBODY thought that this missile launch was an alien spacecraft?

Is it true that you can't can't provide any witness reports where anyone mistook this event for aliens, or a flying saucer, or any other type of alien ship?

I'd have to say that really weakens your argument that reports of alien contact are often simply mis-identification of rockets and missiles.