Biggest Gay Lobby Group in America Urges Schools to Ban Words ‘Boy’ and ‘Girl’

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn

They don't see the mental and societal impact they have on the minds of their children. Many don't even bother to find out what the child really likes, wants or dream of. When we push our ideas of what is best for our children, when we have never given them a real choice, what do we expect?

Or, you listen and raise them to live in the world they will be a part of ---- instead of what was.

Of course, getting a high functioning autistic to tell you what's on their mind is a bit more of a challenge --- but raising him is all I do.

originally posted by: MountainLaurel
a reply to: EKron

Well for what's it worth Ekron your participation has been the most meaningful part of this thread for me. It really is a bummer that your willingness to open up about such a painful part of your life has been met with so much insensitivity, perhaps from myself as well....I hope not, certainly not my intention.

Thank you again, MountainLaurel. It is nice to know at least one person is listening. Insensitivity from you? Not a bit so no worries. I didn't mean to go off in my last post either but sometimes the outright ignorance and stupidity here gets to me and it's all too much to not blow off a little steam from time to time. I learned long ago that haters gonna hate and usually turn a blind eye to it otherwise, I'd have never made it this far in life.

Anyway, after I figure out dinner or a little later this evening, check you U2U's. I have something to say to you privately.

Thanks!

I'm starting to feel like our society is slowly heading towards a "Harrison Bergeron" type world where everyone has to be equal when it comes every aspect in life . It's like the whole world has gone mad. There is nothing wrong with calling a person a boy or girl. Things like this is starting to drive me crazy because it seems like some people in this world have lost their common sense.

I've never met someone who didn't like being called a boy or girl/ man or woman. It's ridiculous, there are people who feel like we should ignore things like gender when it comes to certain things like going to an all men/women college etc.

Please feel free to ignore my post. I'm so irritated over this I can't even think straight.

Humans annoy me so much.

Why even have NAMES ? An alpha-numeric designation is so much more inclusive, so less personal, like THX-1138, for example.
a reply to: jude11

originally posted by: Rocketgirl
I've never met someone who didn't like being called a boy or girl/ man or woman.

Just because in your limited experience you haven't doesn't change the fact they do exist. There are transgender children that may be in the middle, say nothing of intersex children that may be both male and female without a strongly developed social identity as being one or the other.

Why I'm beating this dead horse when people's reading comprehension is so abysmal, I can't even say. Glutton for punishment I guess?

a reply to: EKron

I think the big point everyone is making badly is that the transgender folk are a minority within the minority if the gay community.

I see little point in confusing and annoying the 99% of us who do identity our gender clearly in order to make the less than one percent who are affected by gender identity issues happy. In fact it is pure insanity.

It would make far more sense to deal with these children on a case by case basis and to educate the rest of their peers on how little so and so is unique and needs a bit of understanding and acceptance.

originally posted by: markosity1973
a reply to: EKron
I think the big point everyone is making badly is that the transgender folk are a minority within the minority if the gay community.

Oh great! Ignore the doubly disenfranchised. Why not also point out the transsexual minority in the transgender minority that is a minority of the gay community? And people think we're all the same thing, sheesh! Trans* people are only lumped in with the gay community for political expediency, power and visibility anyway. Drilling further down, transsexual people are only lumped in under the transgender umbrella for political correctness and to be sensitive of gender diversities spanning a broad spectrum. Be happy you're only gay. It's a lot less complicated.

I see little point in confusing and annoying the 99% of us who do identity our gender clearly in order to make the less than one percent who are affected by gender identity issues happy. In fact it is pure insanity.

Do you really think not separating children by gender, which is something kids wouldn't even know wasn't being done is annoying and confusing to the 99% of cis-gender folks. It is something so easy and completely transparent, I don't know how you think it is insanity unless I am misunderstanding your point?

Probably not applicable to grade schoolers, but how would you feel if the teacher ask all the straight kids to line up in one place and all the gay kids to line up in another? Would you like your sexuality brought to everyone's attention? What if you were bisexual? What line would you stand in?

It would make far more sense to deal with these children on a case by case basis and to educate the rest of their peers on how little so and so is unique and needs a bit of understanding and acceptance.

Fine but this still offsets a child as something out of the ordinary, special, weird and needing unique understanding and acceptance education when all this could simply be avoided by using some other designator other than boys or girls when separating groups of children?

I give up. I'm only trying to advocate and my experience as a trans kid that truly was confused and annoyed by this in school means nothing in these modern times.

a reply to: Annee

No...no you can't help me for the simple fact that I do understand.

I understand that parents want to make sure their kids aren't keeping bad company. I'm just wondering on what grounds you base your decisions on before you judge other kids.

My mother was the same, in fact a lot of parents are - there's no mystery here, it's not difficult to comprehend nor are you unique in that regard. So you can forget about taking the condescending tone because it's wasted on the majority of us...it's really quite simple.

Ok so here's a thought...there's a kid in the community who's...a bit odd shall we say. The type of kid you see and hear and think...I don't like this kid, I believe he/she is a bad influence or whatever, and you decide your own can no longer be friends and hang out with that boy.

Let's say all parents make the same decision...are you not excluding that child? You think you're doing right, and you are doing right for your own kids. But you're still actively excluding another child. You're contradicting yourself.

Said oddball child soon has no friends and becomes introvert possibly even more of an oddball,nobody likes him/her for simply being who he or she is. Yet you speak of diversity and exclusion and tolerance etc. I don't think I'm the one who's confused here.

a reply to: EKron

Firstly, I understand your passion. This means a lot to you and I get it. What you need to understand, and I say this from a place of love, is that you are on the inside of the goldfish bowl looking out and we are on the outside looking in. Our perspective out here is different to yours, we know that and no disrespect to you or any other transgender person is intended.

Secondly, I love my transgender friends very much and I know that you have all traveled a hard road. Life is not easy for any of us, each of us has our own cross to bear in this life.

Thirdly, you mention calling out kids and dividing them by sexuality - it is something that would not work in prepubescent classes anyway because kids would not know their sexuality because it is dormant. I understand that gender is different and the identity starts a lot younger than sexuality.

Gay people do not suggest that we should all call ourselves bisexual because it removes the confusion for kids, or adults for that matter, Doing so would only make people very angry and to be honest it would be pointless because the attractions would remain the same anyway no matter what you call them. We accept our label and work around wearing it with pride instead of pummeling everyone into giving up sexual identity to make us feel included.

What you need to understand and accept though is two things - boy / girl, male / female, feminine / masculine are very deeply rooted in the human psyche. You can't ask everyone to walk away from the concept of it because it suits you as a transgender person. It is too much of a change to ask from people and there are too many of us who do not want to be challenged on it.

As I said earlier, managing this on a case by case basis is the best way to handle the situation. Because transgenderism is quite rare, schools should be educated on how to manage these children on a one on one basis. I've read some great stories of kids and schools who have done this and helped little johnny assume a life as little sally. Kids are quite accepting of something new if they are educated in a loving and rational manner. If a kid is ambiguous in their gender, then that is something that cannot be solved by asking everyone else at the school to give up their identity for.

To give you an idea of how rare transgenderism is, I attended a country high school of about 540 students. Of those 540, I know of about 20 gay people and zero transgender.

a reply to: EKron

Not the only one listening, Ekron.

originally posted by: EKron

originally posted by: Rocketgirl
I've never met someone who didn't like being called a boy or girl/ man or woman.

Just because in your limited experience you haven't doesn't change the fact they do exist. There are transgender children that may be in the middle, say nothing of intersex children that may be both male and female without a strongly developed social identity as being one or the other.

I got picked on in school and had my ass kicked too, and I'm just a straight guy who happens to be thin and a bit "feminine" looking. I could have decided to invent a "new me" so I wouldn't have to shower with d-bags who picked on me, but didn't because, well, I like who I am, and I don't have a personality disorder.

Here's what actually exists:
x y chromosomes

Now, when I open my business, I will have two bathrooms.
One will have a picturue - "XX" - the other, "XY."
Most actual hermaphrodites "identify" as, and were raised as, either female or male, not "both."

If I catch a man with a boob job trying to go into the women's bathroom, I'm going to kick him where it reminds him which one HE is supposed to use. Just kidding - but if HE presses the issue, that will be the threat.

If a woman with a beard and a mastectomy tries to use the "little boys room," well, same story, lady. What I do know is that when women use the bathroom, sometimes they have to do or say things men don't particularly want to see or hear, and vice-versa. Just because a man with boobs thinks he's a woman, trust me - he doesn't have to change his pad, because he does NOT have a vagina, and if I was a woman helping my daughter with hers, I think we'd feel a bit uncomfortable doing so in front of Mr. Mom, no? Yes. And I love and respect women, and will NOT allow men in their restroom in my establishment just because they bought some boobs - but still "hate vaginas." That's not trans-gender, that's not trans-anything- that's just crazy.

We are not the same. We are different. Doesn't matter what you "think" you are.
If your plane goes down and all that's left is remains charred beyond recognition, and your ID found 10 feet away says you're a black female, but your DNA says you're a white man, then what?
"Sorry folks, we didn't find your son. There was a lady in his seat, I guess."
That sounds silly, right?
Yea, to me too.

originally posted by: samerulesapply
I'm just wondering on what grounds you base your decisions on before you judge other kids.

Your own child's behavior after spending time with a specific friend.

Which can also reflect on that parent, but not always.

originally posted by: samerulesapply
Let's say all parents make the same decision...are you not excluding that child? You think you're doing right, and you are doing right for your own kids. But you're still actively excluding another child. You're contradicting yourself.

Said oddball child soon has no friends and becomes introvert possibly even more of an oddball,nobody likes him/her for simply being who he or she is. Yet you speak of diversity and exclusion and tolerance etc. I don't think I'm the one who's confused here.

My child is not responsible for the welfare of every child in the world.

The subject I addressed was exclusion at school K thru 5th grade. His particular school does not allow small group cliques to form and create exclusion situations.

This fits in with the OP. I agree there needs to be pronouns used beyond physical gender.

originally posted by: Parthin96
Why even have NAMES ? An alpha-numeric designation is so much more inclusive, so less personal, like THX-1138, for example.
a reply to: jude11

And don't forget the color of one's hair. Everyone should go either completely bald or everyone should get purple hair color. No, not black, blonde or brown because then the 'naturals' will not be equal. Come to think of it, getting everyone to wear burka's like they do in the ME might be a viable solution.

Next should be products. Everything should be one quality, no more Ferraris because that would show unequality. It's not the fault of someone that they've been born with less intelligence than the other human being so they can't help it and that is why the other must change their ways and have less expensive stuff. And rationed as well because we wouldn't want anyone to have more stuff than average, that might make the less rich feel bad about themselves.

a reply to: markosity1973

Not to butt in but, what exactly is "confusing and annoying the 99% of us"? I'm not confused or annoyed.

The suggestion that if a teacher/parents want their classroom to be more inclusive that there are different ways to group kids together besides "boys and girls?"

Insanity, really Mark? Aren't you kow-towing just a bit much to the "right wing political correctness" spiel that claims that any efforts to include everyone just irritates the all-important majority?

What if the effort is bigger than just "making 1% of the people 'happy'"? What if what we're teaching in such efforts is that there are ways to group people together that don't regard sex or race? Or teaching kids to look for the qualities that bring people together instead of splitting them apart?

I know, that's just trying to make everyone happy, right? Well, what if it is? Sue me.

What if the idea itself (which is a suggestion made available for people who WANT to create this kind of learning environment) is a good thing, not some darkwing communist plot to neuter everyone?

The idea that we are going to keep the vast majority of boys from "being boys" or girls from 'being girls' is the ONLY idea approaching insanity I see here.

That and the typical right-winger mania over any inconsequential thing that can be blown up into a chance to be nasty and extremist with no likely reprisals. These always bring out the "well, see what the gays are doing now, we told you" crowd.

a reply to: johnnyjoe1979

Why would anyone do any of those things?

That seems really nutty and extremist.

(And ludicrously exaggerated, nonsensical and absurd, but I think that would be obvious.)

Did you read the OP article? That is the actual article at HRC?

These are suggestions available to teachers and/or parents who want to structure classrooms along more inclusive lines.

Here, again, is the actual article at HRC: Four Ways to Make a Classroom Gender-Inclusive.

a reply to: KAOStheory

Awesome post, dude!

I don't have time right now to go back and reread the whole thread but I think you win? It was a tough call between those that thought the suggestion not to group school kids by gender was the final step to a communist takeover, those that thought it was a precursor to a genderless society and those that thought a simple suggestion was an outright ban on words that violated their 1st amendment rights.

One thing I'm not too sure of though is your claim of not having a personality disorder. Just an observation but you seem kind of messed up or troubled and obviously have some kind of learning disability. Your advocacy of trans violence though could be evidence of more serious conditions and as a concerned comrade, suggest maybe you should get that checked out?

Again, awesome post, man! I'm giving you a star to help it be a shining example of something I'll refrain from trying to describe. It more or less speaks for itself and for your level of intelligence and demonstrates things I couldn't have said better myself.

a reply to: KAOStheory

It is my personal opinion that the ignorance demonstrated in your post is exceeded only by your apparent utter disregard for reality.

I look forward to hearing your future whining and complaining about the multiple lawsuits you will face for accosting your customers who are trying to use the bathroom, for the brief period of time that you have "a business" while demonstrating such a fundamental lack of understanding how to interact with your customers.

Make sure to post plenty of signs that scream that you "reserve the right to deny service to anyone."

You're going to make a mint in business'. Don't change a thing!

a reply to: EKron

and to Gryphon66

SO, you're response is that I threatened "transgender violence?"
I did not. A man who thinks a boob-job is, exactly as I stated, not TRANS-anything. He's a man with boobs, and will not be allowed in a woman's bathroom in my establishment. Never said I'd "refuse service" either.
It will be a SHOP, not even REQUIRED to HAVE a restroom, let alone let ANYONE use ANY restroom.
And you call me ignorant? You two (one admittedly) didn't even read my post. Good job showing YOUR intelligence.
Why don't you look up Wendy Carlos, an ACTUAL transgender, and one of my biggest heroes.

I'm sorry you don't know what chromosomes are. That's why I posted the link, and will continue to, whenever someone makes a thread about dudes with boob jobs having special bathrooms, and women with beards needing to be called "Sir."

Since you didn't read it the first time, I repeat -
If my wife takes my 12-year old daughter into a public bathroom to handle a monthly issue, I WILL stop a man from following them in there, making THEM uncomfortable.
They have the right to go in the MENS room, because they ARE a man.
If they don't like it, they can hit a tree like ALL OTHER MEN DO.

originally posted by: markosity1973
a reply to: EKron

Secondly, I love my transgender friends very much and I know that you have all traveled a hard road. Life is not easy for any of us, each of us has our own cross to bear in this life.

Thirdly, you mention calling out kids and dividing them by sexuality - it is something that would not work in prepubescent classes anyway because kids would not know their sexuality because it is dormant. I understand that gender is different and the identity starts a lot younger than sexuality.

Gay people do not suggest that we should all call ourselves bisexual because it removes the confusion for kids, or adults for that matter, Doing so would only make people very angry and to be honest it would be pointless because the attractions would remain the same anyway no matter what you call them. We accept our label and work around wearing it with pride instead of pummeling everyone into giving up sexual identity to make us feel included.

What you need to understand and accept though is two things - boy / girl, male / female, feminine / masculine are very deeply rooted in the human psyche. You can't ask everyone to walk away from the concept of it because it suits you as a transgender person. It is too much of a change to ask from people and there are too many of us who do not want to be challenged on it.

Since you guys missed this too, I'll quote it, because I whole-heartedly agree with every word.
You are trying to imply that children'ssexualityneeds to be examined, talked about, accepted - WTF.
NO. Gross. Stay outta my bathroom and away from the kids.

Maybe if people didn't give in to BS cultural norms, trying to decide if it's ok to buy Johnny a pink Barbie or a firetruck, you buy him some paper and markers, and see what he draws.

Gender and sexuality are different things. True story.