Majority of New Driver’s Licenses Issued in California This Year are to Undocumented Immigrants

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Chrisfishenstein

Here's an intersting quote from your link:

We also find that one of the favorite policies advocated by conservatives to prevent voter fraud appears strikingly ineffective. Nearly three quarters of the non-citizens who indicated they were asked to provide photo identification at the polls claimed to have subsequently voted.

Since it is ineffective let's just stop worrying about it then.....Right? That link was showing the numbers by the way and there are many more as I said but let's focus on the non important parts....Seems par for your course!

a reply to: ketsuko
a reply to: Chrisfishenstein

They are an important part of our economy. There are plenty of jobs out there to be had. Just have to go get it. The idea that illegal immigrants take the jobs from Americans is true, but with an important caveat:

One of the standard arguments against immigration is that those immigrants then take a job or two that could have been done by some native born worker. This is, of course, entirely true: immigrants do indeed take jobs that could have been done by someone else, native born or not. However, that’s not the entire story. Immigrants also bring with them (whether they are documented or not) their own set of desires and needs. And fulfilling those desires and needs thus creates a job or two that other people can do: some of those will obviously go to the native born. So, yes, immigration does “steal jobs” but it also creates them. What we’d actually like to know then is what is the net effect: and the net effect is undoubtedly beneficial overall. Thus the reason that economists generally believe that immigration is a good thing.

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It would be better of people would educate themselves before spitting rhetoric and talking points.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I'll ask you the same question;

Do you think that people who broke the law by coming to the US illegally should be punished?

Or rewarded.

I don't really know. How about neither? We need immigration reform, but I'm not the person to figure it out. I'm not a legal scholar and I don't know enough about the reasons people come here to say what should happen. Why do they have to be punished or rewarded? Why does anything have to happen to them? I don't always get punished or rewarded for breaking the law when I do it... Do you?

I think they should have drivers licenses for the reasons mentioned.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: TonyS

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
You mean Illegal aliens?

Not surprised......

heh its funny, illegal aliens can get a DL , I bet now the left will have no problem providing ID for voting!

And their voting was the purpose all along. Good plan, working well! The development of a permanent Democrat party majority.

Yes, that was the plan. Isn't it convenient that Bush and Reagan were co-opted and went along with the nefarious plot?

Quite convenient for their Corporate and Big Business handlers who insisted upon the open borders policy so they could have cheap labor. And that's been the undoing of "America", the public is whipsawed between one party or the other, working at different goals, but complicit in the same means.

a reply to: Chrisfishenstein

I think there are better ways to go about it. What I quoted was interesting to me, considering the push from the right for ID's. That's all.

I'd appreciate it if you would stop with the personal attacks. I understand you're a little peeved at me from the thread in which you conducted yourself in a poor and inappropriate manner, but that was your doing...not mine.

So please stop and address the issue.

a reply to: introvert

One of the standard arguments against immigration is that those immigrants then take a job or two

A job or two....Okay let's go there....

The illegal alien workers are mostly persons who sneaked into the country — nearly all Mexicans or Central Americans who enter from Mexico. There is also, however, illegal entry across the border with Canada, with apprehensions by the Border Patrol of more than 6,000 aliens in 2010. There is also a significant portion of the illegal alien population that arrives with visas and stays illegally. These ‘overstayers' are estimated variously to between one- third and 40 percent of the illegal alien population.
The defenders of illegal aliens — ethnic advocacy groups, employer groups, and church-based groups — often assert that illegal aliens only take jobs unwanted by U.S. workers. This is patently false because they are working in jobs in which U.S. workers are also employed — whether in construction, agricultural harvesting or service professions.
If the hiring of illegal alien workers is prevalent in a sector of the economy, as it has become the case in seasonal crop agriculture, the willingness of foreign workers to accept lower wages because of their illegal status acts to depress wages and working conditions for all workers in that occupation. This in turn makes employment in that sector less attractive to U.S. workers who have other options. The result is a form of circular logic, i.e., the more that illegal aliens are able to take jobs in a sector of the economy, the less attractive the sector becomes to U.S. workers, and the greater appearance of validity to the lie that only illegal aliens are willing to take jobs in the sector. Only by enforcing the immigration law against employment of illegal alien workers can this spiral to the bottom be broken and employers forced to restore wages and working conditions to levels that will attract U.S. workers and legal foreign workers.
How Many U.S. Jobs Are Taken by Illegal Aliens?
Just as the size of the illegal alien population can only be estimated, the number of illegal aliens working in the United States is also subject to estimation. A large share of the illegal alien population is generally accepted as being in the workforce because that is what motivates most illegal immigration. However, there are some family members, especially children of illegal aliens not in the labor force, while others may be in prison. One recent estimate by researchers at the Pew Hispanic Center puts the number of illegal aliens in the workforce at 8 million out of an overall population of 11.2 million illegal aliens, i.e., 71.4 percent.1 That estimate is generally accepted as reasonable.

Uh huh....

www.fairus.org...

One or two....

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Chrisfishenstein

I think there are better ways to go about it. What I quoted was interesting to me, considering the push from the right for ID's. That's all.

I'd appreciate it if you would stop with the personal attacks. I understand you're a little peeved at me from the thread in which you conducted yourself in a poor and inappropriate manner, but that was your doing...not mine.

So please stop and address the issue.

Haven't I multiple times? Don't criticize my method.....I am not looking for your consent on my posts....If you can justify illegals getting ID cards, you are exactly what I said before....Come here illegally and stay here because you made it??? WHAT????

a reply to: Chrisfishenstein

Regardless of the number, what my link shows is that not only are they taking jobs, they are creating them as well. Not to mention the fact that they are spending that money which is good for the economy as well.

Since they are already here, give them a DL and let them work.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

So the law is an arbitrary thing to be followed or not.

Just because the solutions may be difficult or not apparent, punishment for not obeying the law should also be arbitrary.

To take it to the extreme, since murder is illegal, but people still commit murder, we should not punish people who violate the law, because the current solutions are not effective.

originally posted by: yeahright
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Good resource for voter requirements by state.

Thanks. But they do require registration, right? My state doesn't require docs to vote, either, but they have my registration on file.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Chrisfishenstein

Regardless of the number, what my link shows is that not only are they taking jobs, they are creating them as well. Not to mention the fact that they are spending that money which is good for the economy as well.

Since they are already here, give them a DL and let them work.

So promote illegals because it helps the economy?

Do you not see the irony in this statement? I can't repeat myself any longer with the same statements

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

So the law is an arbitrary thing to be followed or not.

You've asked me about 10 questions and I've patiently answered. Before I answer more, will you answer ONE question? Do you follow the law 100% of the time?

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

How often do you break the law and in what ways?

Do you break into other countries illegally much?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

How often do you break the law and in what ways?

Nunya.

Do you break into other countries illegally much?

No. Your point? Or are you going to "take it to extremes" too, and suggest that crossing an imaginary line is paramount to murder?

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

There is such a thing as having respect for the law. At its base, the country is defined by its laws and the boundary of that body of law is set by the border. If you can't respect the border, how can we expect you to respect much else about the body of the laws of the country?

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

How often do you break the law and in what ways?

Nunya.

Do you break into other countries illegally much?

No. Your point? Or are you going to "take it to extremes" too, and suggest that crossing an imaginary line is paramount to murder?

How about aiding to homelessness of our own?

www.jstor.org...

Read the numbers of the illegals working and put these people into jobs instead of inviting this and promoting this in the USA...Not saying anything you said is wrong, just stating fact...

a reply to: Chrisfishenstein

I am not promoting anything. I'm being realistic.

We cannot afford to deport them all and it would leave a huge gap in our workforce. We have to work towards a logical solution and this is part of that.

What would be your solution?

originally posted by: beezzer
So what happens when they do vote in the next election?

Will the left continue to make excuses?

Ya once there is some solid proof of this then people might pay attention to it.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

So the law is an arbitrary thing to be followed or not.

You've asked me about 10 questions and I've patiently answered. Before I answer more, will you answer ONE question? Do you follow the law 100% of the time?

No. And when I get caught, I am punished. I've yet to be rewarded.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Chrisfishenstein

I am not promoting anything. I'm being realistic.

We cannot afford to deport them all and it would leave a huge gap in our workforce. We have to work towards a logical solution and this is part of that.

What would be your solution?

I can tell you what I wouldn't do....That is welcome them with open arms and give them jobs!

You have any idea how quickly that workforce gap could be filled? Spend the money on our own people...Or come here freaking legally...Why is this difficult?