Monday: White House Set To Adopt Sweeping Curbs On Carbon Pollution

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Rocker2013

Greatly increasing the costs of electricity isn't progress...it is regressive.

That's funny, that is exactly what Iran said when the World Bank refused them money to invest in hydroelectric. Iran said, most of our people need subsidised electricity or they cannot afford electricity. The World Bank said, put up prices or no money to move to clean energy. Russia then popped up and said, don't worry we'll help you get set up with nuclear. Problem solved.

Energy is expensive. A moratorium on oil extraction is gaining momentum. It is likely not to reach fruition of course but the understanding of the necessity for action is finally hitting home, and such drastic times will call for drastic measures, and it will hurt some pretty badly, but where ever possible they will try and pass as much of the cost to the person at the bottom of the pile who is least able to bear that burden. The key will be in communities working together to find solutions to these problems, otherwise they will have solutions imposed upon them.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Rocker2013

Doing something is great when it doesn't hurt regular Americans. Greatly increasing the costs of electricity isn't progress...it is regressive.

When that happens you'll have reason to complain, until it does happen you have nothing to base your fears on.
Rejecting any and all progress because you fear an inconvenience (which is unproven) is not sensible.

a reply to: 727Sky

Energy costs went up for everyone, not just people with Smart Meters. If cost was truly at the heart of concern, you would think people would be pushing for solar and wind...

a reply to: Rocker2013

It's not about "what they do".

It's about "how" they do it,

And about "WHO" gets rich.

a reply to: xuenchen

Caution: Sarcasm below!

The government has gone too far. I believe it is my right to evacuate my bowels anyplace, and time I choose to. At a restaurant, in church, on the sidewalk. So what if 97% of scientist say that human feces are dangerous and present health risks like :
Ascariasis and other soil transmitted helminthiasis
Cholera
Clostridium difficile
Cryptosporidiosis
Enteroviruses
Giardiasis
Hepatitis A
Hepatitis E
Norovirus acute gastroenteritis
Poliomyelitis
Rotavirus
gastroenteritis
Shigellosis (bacillary dysentery)
Typhoid fever
Vibrio parahaemolyticus infection
Waterborne diseases
Helicobacter pylori
Entameba histolytic
Escherichia coli
tape worms

These scientist are just saying what the liberals want them to say so that they can get more government grant money. The science is not settled people!

Now the tyrannical government has put a tax on bowel evacuation in public through anti-democratic laws and fines. The founders are spinning in their graves! The founders routinely evacuated their bowels outside and in public in an age of liberty, before the indoor flush toilet industry lobbied for these freedom-hating laws and fines that are unconstitutional. Where in the constitution does it mention feces? No where! And the SCOTUS upholds these unconstitutional laws because the toilet paper industry and the plumbing unions have millions of paid lobbyists working to put pressure on our elected official who approve SCOTUS nominations.

Vote all the bums out!

a reply to: xuenchen

So it's about Capitalism and playing the game the same way Oil Companies do? Yeah some sleazeballs did that.

Here's a less biased source of this for those who don't desire to read their news from a site that calls itself "government slaves"

Fact Sheet: President Obama to Announce Historic Carbon Pollution Standards for Power Plants

This is straight from whitehouse.gov so it should be free of any quote mines or strawmans about the proposals.

At a time when we have a bunch of unsettled weather around this country the president wants to get rid of more coal fired plants and put up big solar panels and windmills that this severe weather can destroy? Who's side is he on, surely it is not the regular people here, he must be working for some chaotic force. Where did we find such an idiot? Can't they think and reason at all?

a reply to: rickymouse

Whose side are they on?!?

Well (Glinda waves her hand furiously!!! "Call on me! Call on me!")

How about the side of deep pocketed, "progressive" candidate donors, who receive (ie, recycle) government largesse (think the failed Solyndra, LightSquare, etc) BACK to the politicians who gave them the initial "greenie grants" (minus some working capital--CEOs gotta live too!)

Now, upthread redesigned, Eco-friendly, non productive dishwashers was mentioned. What is a better analogy to keeping the "uppity" little people in line. Dishwashers? For the hoi polloi? Who do they think they are? Instead of progressing forward for MORE to be financially able to purchase appliances they make life easier for all, let's make them functionally disappointing except for the very top of the line that are made unaffordable for all but the top earners.

Small example, but all part of a bigger picture of pounding a historically large middle class down to the lower financial class. The larger and more successful the "middle" is, the less big government is needed to "aide" a decreasing lower class.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Here's a less biased source of this for those who don't desire to read their news from a site that calls itself "government slaves"

Fact Sheet: President Obama to Announce Historic Carbon Pollution Standards for Power Plants

This is straight from whitehouse.gov so it should be free of any quote mines or strawmans about the proposals.

The very first words from the White House...

"Fact Sheet".

Proceed with extreme caution.

a reply to: xuenchen

I'd trust "facts" from the White House over "facts" from a random right wing website on the internet called "Government Slaves" any day.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Here's a less biased source of this for those who don't desire to read their news from a site that calls itself "government slaves"

Fact Sheet: President Obama to Announce Historic Carbon Pollution Standards for Power Plants

This is straight from whitehouse.gov so it should be free of any quote mines or strawmans about the proposals.

Your propensity for promoting Government websites as "less biased" just absolutely amazes the crap outa me. So, lets suppose for a moment that there was what you would consider an evil conservative Republican in the White House and he'd staffed EPA with oil company executives and whitehouse web site promotes new push for clean coal technology......you would say that was from a "less biased" source? Of course not! You would immediately dismiss anything that came out of the "conservative Republican" white house as "evil Propaganda to serve the ends of the puppet master greedy coal company and energy company executives".

I make this point, not as a personal attack, but rather to encourage those who have a bit of experience under their belts to remember there are "young" people on ATS and they haven't had the time to figure out that most all government pronouncements are biased, one way or the other, depending on who's in charge. The sooner the youth come to realize that just because it came from the white house, or DHS, or NASA, doesn't mean its altogether true and unbiased, the better off everyone will be.

a reply to: TonyS

Do you know what the word "less" means? Here is what I said originally about that source:

Here's a less biased source of this for those who don't desire to read their news from a site that calls itself "government slaves"

Believe it or not, I word things specifically for a reason.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: xuenchen

I'd trust "facts" from the White House over "facts" from a random right wing website on the internet called "Government Slaves" any day.

Must feel real good to get that off your chest.

I freely admit I don't trust the White House.

Now I feel better than you do !!

I find it odd that nobody is highlighting the good points of the Obama release.

I guess the recent mental threads are taking over reality.

And the Lion incidents in Zimbabwe too.

A lot at stake here, and the solar power issues do actually have some merits.

a reply to: xuenchen

You are falling into the same trap that Tony fell in. It's not that I trust the White House's words. I just trust them more than I trust some random right wing website. Especially considering how the right wing news is prone to sensationalize and distort what is really going on. Actually, considering your original source, I think I'd trust Fox News over a website called "Government Slaves".

a reply to: Krazysh0t



Focus on the content of the Obama papers.

There must be something in there you don't want anybody to see.

Very suspicious.

What is everybody so afraid of?

Hmmm.

a reply to: xuenchen

I'm posting a source directly from the White House, in other words, Obama's papers. That is called a secondary source. YOU posted an interpretation of those papers from a random right wing blog. That is called a tertiary source. In the hierarchy of sources it goes primary > secondary > tertiary as far as trustworthiness goes. I can't get the primary source, because Obama actually has it. Though, I can give the secondary source. Which I did.

Though I'm not sure what you are getting at by accusing me of trying to hide something. A secondary source is less likely to be hiding something than a tertiary source. I have more right to accuse YOU of hiding something for not getting your information from a source closer to the primary source.

a reply to: xuenchen

The agenda, behind the carbon credits and cutting the carbon pollution, I guess because people are not buying like the government and globalist wants into the global warming like they would like too, they are now taking into their hands to force the agenda into us, drilling is not good enough, propaganda is not good enough.

So darn by Obama's will we will be forced into whatever comes behind the regulations, as usual is taxes.

Get ready American bend some more.

2016 with ACA final taxes and now more regulations on carbon pollution, taxes will be the death of all of us.

Didn't the SCOTUS strike some of these rules down recently? I predict a lot of push back on this. You can't vaporize the power grid under regulations and an entire industry without massive pushback.

But when your power bills triple, don't say Obama didn't warn you before you pulled the lever for him.