President Obama’s Plan to Revamp Discipline in Schools

There's an interesting study here below (see page 40 onwards) covering discipline for black v's white kids in school. This particular study does suggest that black kids are more likely to be disciplined for similar violations and controls for variables, but I'd be interested to see if anyone else has anything to back up their opinion on this as it's something I've not looked at in any depth.

issuu.com.../1603396

On school discipline in general, I am very much against suspension and exclusion due to their destructive nature. I agree that a new approach needs to be taken, the kids need to be helped not dumped on the scrap heap.

I was reading just the other week about the work of Ross Greene. This guy has been implementing a new system in schools and other youth institutions which involves working with kids to help them solve the problems that are causing their blow ups, with dramatic success...

The results thus far have been dramatic, with schools reporting drops as great as 80 percent in disciplinary referrals, suspensions, and incidents of peer aggression... In 2001, Cambridge Health Alliance, a Boston-area hospital group, implemented CPS, and reports that within a year, its use of physical and chemical restraints (like clonidine, which is a powerful sedative) in young patients dropped from 20 cases per month to zero... Maine's second juvenile detention facility, Mountain View, also adopted Greene's method, with similar results. Incidents that resulted in injury, confinement, or restraint dropped nearly two-thirds between April 2004 and April 2008.

Sure, there are plenty of kids that don't get any guidance at home but in the same breath there are plenty of kids for whom traditional discipline only serves to escalate the behaviour. 'Bad behaviour' is not always a result of lack of 'discipline'.

a reply to: xuenchen

You can't legislate common sense or morality. Child rearing cannot be addressed by a one size fits all approach. I was raised with the belt or a wooden spoon(ouch Ma!) as punishment, and while it didn't leave scars, I usually never repeated my transgression. My wife and I chose a different path, and it worked for us, but may not for others.

The problem with suspension disparity among race leads back to the home. Parents of the me-me-me generation are sidetracked with distractions and other things that hold importance over raising kids. The responsibility of teaching societal behavior, morals, and respect for others has become the responsibility of educators in many parents eyes. Popping out kids is the easy part. Taking full responsibility in training them to fit in and contribute to society is a full-time job, but the resources and help are available to those that seek a means to achieve it.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

We had a willow tree in the yard .
I'm what you call "bull headed" apparently as I DO clearly remember the term.

a reply to: Scouse100

Figures. One of the authors of your report.

Tony Fabelo was the executive director of the Texas Criminal Justice Policy Council from 1991 to 2003, when the agency's budget was vetoed by Governor Rick Perry. This was the research and evaluation agency created by Texas in 1983. Dr. Fabelo was appointed by Governor Ann Richards as Executive Director in 1991 and served in this capacity until August 2003. Prior to 1991, Dr. Fabelo served in different capacities at the agency, including Director of Research and Deputy Director. During his tenure, he assisted five governors and ten regular biennial Texas legislatures in developing criminal and juvenile justice policies. en.m.wikipedia.org...

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

We had a willow tree in the yard .
I'm what you call "bull headed" apparently as I DO clearly remember the term.

My grandma had one too.

Needless to say by the time I grew up that tree was missing more than a few branches.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: ScientificRailgun

We had a willow tree in the yard .
I'm what you call "bull headed" apparently as I DO clearly remember the term.

My grandma had one too.

Needless to say by the time I grew up that tree was missing more than a few branches.

I got the switch a couple times too. But, mostly I was allowed to do whatever I wanted.

That's why I know how important consistency, rules, and limits are.

If you "switch" someone who usually has no discipline --- it's very confusing.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

I still think mandatory parent training classes would help in the long run.

And what happens when the parents fail the training classes?

a reply to: xuenchen


without reading any reply posts first... I will submit my reply post -> that the TIC will use as his favored model of revamping education and instructional school... based on the Madrasa School/Instruction Centers model of Islamic schools today...

it goes well with that Common Core dumbing down curricula all those Progressive Liberals just gush about...
low info on life betterment training but a major push for indoctrination into the Muslim need to conform to hive mind

only the best and brightest who are not already high in the Islamic hierarchy will be selected for higher education--- i.e. to be in charge of the serf class minions who cater to the technicians that will put on-line the robots needed for physical labor.... some of us might fare well in the Technocratic future... more likely it will FEW rather than SOME who will fare well !

 

I went and scanned through the 3 pages of replies.... it seems you members forget that Obama holds Sharia law close to his heart... the =discipline problem is because Americans are allowed to be free thinkers---they are not forced into indoctrination or control propaganda like under the forced discipline of being of the Muslim/Islam ideology + rules + laws + social stigmas + behavior restrictions

I think I am exactly correct ... no matter what fancy colored wrapper this Oval Office Occupier might intice you with..
BHO track record is to Lie to overturn the status-quo of the USA, destroy the middle class (at least the 9/10ths who were not of color)
and installing a Gestapo like...Madrasa type of brown-shirt 12 year schooling indoctrination system will exactly suffice BHOs threat to Fundamentally 'TRANsFORM AMERICA"


Sheeze....I am darn sure I am on the red list...cause the bureaucracy works on predetermined guidelines .
.. they figure I cannot be 'RE-Educated'

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: kaylaluv

I still think mandatory parent training classes would help in the long run.

And what happens when the parents fail the training classes?

Mandatory, forced sterilization.

If they're already pregnant, forced abortion.

[/sarcasm]

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: kaylaluv

I still think mandatory parent training classes would help in the long run.

And what happens when the parents fail the training classes?

Mandatory, forced sterilization.

If they're already pregnant, forced abortion.

[/sarcasm]

or....

Re-education through labor and the Chinese penal system

a reply to: xuenchen

I call BS on this. Black and white students are treated the same when it comes to school discipline. The problem is this simple...kids today receive no consequences for poor behavior at home or at school. It all starts at home. Black students may be disproportionally disciplined not because the color of their skin, but because a majority of them just don't care about their education! Statistics just don't lie. A look at the achievement gaps between male Black and white public school students show they consistantly score well below other racial groups.

This may seem rediculouse but it's true. Some really think they don't need education because they actually think they're going to make it into the NBA or become the next rap artist!! So when young black males embrace the glorification of acting like thugs, refuse to apply themselves in academic school work, and believe getting good grades goes against their perspective of maintaining their "bad boy image," in what form do you think all that idle energy is expelled in the classroom?

Ask any teacher, it's like a breath of fresh air when we have black students who apply themselves and are focused on their school work, and shows respect. Don't get me wrong, there are more and more white students who are embracing the "I don't care attitude." However, it's more prevalent among black teenagers.

Removing the paddle from the classroom opened up pandora's box. Without that fear, kids know the teacher's hands are tied.

a reply to: queenofswords

I agree.. it's amazing, we'll pay a person well into 7 figures just to catch an inflated piece of pig skin, or swing a bat but, give our most precious resource, our children over to people we barely pay a living wage..

Michelle/Michael Obama has already ruined the school lunches.. now Barack is going to allow problem children who are disruptive and possibly violent back into the class? So it's racism that has these kids suspended or expelled? What about the predominant black schools with black principal and teachers who expelled students?

Schools in my area are closing left and right.. kids are being bused in from all over.. classrooms are already over crowded.. it's a stressful job for teachers who have a class full of kids who want to learn.. take away more authority from them and the bad element will grow even worse, knowing the teacher can't do anything about the behavior or the situation..

I think Obama needs to disguise himself and teach a class for a week or two.. then let's see what his views are on discipline..

I read a book recently called "Non-Violent Communication" in which the author describes how he visited a school in a low-income neighborhood that had a lot of problems with students disrupting the classrooms so the other kids couldn't learn. He asked the kids what should be done about it. The kids said that when another kid disrupts the classroom he should be sent to a room where he can talk about what is bothering him. It would not be a "punishment room", but a "helping room". This concept was implemented by the school and it was very successful.
So many kids have terrible parents and that is a major reason why they act out in the classroom. They don't need corporal punishment from their parents, they need someone to talk to who will listen to them and care about what they are saying. Most of these kids are already getting corporal punishment from their parents and this is one of the causes of their problems, not the solution to their problems; studies show that minority parents are more likely to use corporal punishment on their kids than non-minority parents, and studies also show that kids whose parents use corporal punishment are more likely to engage in anti-social behavior at school.

Sal

originally posted by: HooHaa
a reply to: queenofswords

I agree.. it's amazing, we'll pay a person well into 7 figures just to catch an inflated piece of pig skin, or swing a bat but, give our most precious resource, our children over to people we barely pay a living wage..

Michelle/Michael Obama has already ruined the school lunches.. now Barack is going to allow problem children who are disruptive and possibly violent back into the class? So it's racism that has these kids suspended or expelled? What about the predominant black schools with black principal and teachers who expelled students?

Schools in my area are closing left and right.. kids are being bused in from all over.. classrooms are already over crowded.. it's a stressful job for teachers who have a class full of kids who want to learn.. take away more authority from them and the bad element will grow even worse, knowing the teacher can't do anything about the behavior or the situation..

I think Obama needs to disguise himself and teach a class for a week or two.. then let's see what his views are on discipline..

We all know how busy teachers are, I don't for a minute envy their position, but I doubt anyone is saying simply allow the kids to carry on disrupting the class. There are alternative techniques that have been shown to be successful that will both help curb the behaviour and save these kids from the scrap heap.

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: kaylaluv

I still think mandatory parent training classes would help in the long run.

And what happens when the parents fail the training classes?

Then your children get taken away from you, until you can pass.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: kaylaluv

I still think mandatory parent training classes would help in the long run.

And what happens when the parents fail the training classes?

Then your children get taken away from you, until you can pass.

Ultra-Authoritarian !!!

Some societies have tried that haven't they?

a reply to: xuenchen

Well, you either expell the kids from school so they stay home with the bad parents and they don't learn anything, or you expell the kids from the home until the parents can learn how to do their job better. I know which scenario I think would get better results.

Right.Rather than the parents and their kids accept any responsibility for their dysfunctionalism blame the"Racist"system.God help this country..

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: Scouse100

Figures. One of the authors of your report.

Tony Fabelo was the executive director of the Texas Criminal Justice Policy Council from 1991 to 2003, when the agency's budget was vetoed by Governor Rick Perry. This was the research and evaluation agency created by Texas in 1983. Dr. Fabelo was appointed by Governor Ann Richards as Executive Director in 1991 and served in this capacity until August 2003. Prior to 1991, Dr. Fabelo served in different capacities at the agency, including Director of Research and Deputy Director. During his tenure, he assisted five governors and ten regular biennial Texas legislatures in developing criminal and juvenile justice policies. en.m.wikipedia.org...

Sorry Anne, that has all gone right over my head I have to admit being from the UK

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: xuenchen

Well, you either expell the kids from school so they stay home with the bad parents and they don't learn anything, or you expell the kids from the home until the parents can learn how to do their job better. I know which scenario I think would get better results.

Definitely.

Do the anti-government clones ever give support when the government does positive stuff?

NO!