Is Islam the Solution to the West's Deep Internal Malaise?

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: Drest

Basically, it's the fear that your wonderful paradigm takes over this world. A prospect that scares me so deeply I don't know what to do

Take that and multiply it by a thousand then you might begin to know how we feel about an Islamic country here.

Then I suppose we're at an impasse. You see a different evil than I do.

I think that your evil is infinitely worse. At least mine is out in the open where everyone can see it. Yours hides behind sweet words whilst perched atop a pile of corpses, sparkly clean and fragrant.

Glad that's resolved.

a reply to: Drest

I'm not religion bashing. I'm holding a mirror to your faith and asking if it can be morlly justified in the context of a civilised society. Will you answer my questions, or will you just do some more incoherent rambling?

originally posted by: mortisflash
a reply to: Drest

I'm not religion bashing. I'm holding a mirror to your faith and asking if it can be morlly justified in the context of a civilised society. Will you answer my questions, or will you just do some more incoherent rambling?

What is a civilized society? Is your society "civilized"?

Go ahead, tell me it is. Do a little dance for your audience.

a reply to: Drest


Do you live in the 'West'?

Please answer this simple question which has been asked multiple times.

originally posted by: aorAki
a reply to: Drest


Do you live in the 'West'?

Please answer this simple question which has been asked multiple times.

Yes, I live in the West. I was born in the West, and my ancestors have lived in the West for nigh on 2500 years. That is, if you consider the beginning of Western civilization to have been the Classical period.

a reply to: Drest

Thanks for your answer.

I certainly have no wish to swap my comfortable evil with an uncomfortable evil.

a reply to: Drest

Yes, I live in the West. I was born in the West, and my ancestors have lived in the West for nigh on 2500 years.

Okay, so - I'll bite - are you in Greece?

Australia? Are you a First Tribes native American?

Or, never mind. I don't mean to pry.


Still - my response to the OP is "no."
Islam is not the answer.

I think the replies have said what needed to be said. Is a mind-numbing Dark Age religion what we need? No.
a reply to: Drest

If Islam cured a bunch of tribalistic baby killing arabs how could it not help us? Think about it, why are we so willing to try anything but Islam. Why are we contorting our bodies and standing on our heads doing yoga before we try Islam.

a reply to: Drest

My friend.. I'm in my 30's, am not muslim or particularly religious, but agree with almost everything you mention as far as your observations of what the American society has become (and felt the shift happening before my very eyes in the mid 90's when I was barely in high school). I also believe that like you, the answer is partly discipline, but also thoughtfulness towards others and awareness in how our everyday actions make the world either a little bit better or worse place.

I believe that if children were taught from a young age, and anyone else for that matter, to ask themselves daily what little actions can they take to make the world a better place even if no one notices your good deed, and to recognize selfish behaviors that do not, there would be a revolution of the likes that humanity has never seen. It's the small everyday actions of the many that collectively create the power for dramatic change.

The real missing link in our society is that there is a complete lack of education when it comes to teaching people to be thoughtful in our actions with the goal of building up incredible COLLECTIVE power in changing this planet for the better! This collective positive power will cut through all the hate, all the ignorance, all the despair, and all the blindness faster than any other traditional religion can do. Simply asking yourself the question of "if everyone on the planet were to do this action that i'm contemplating, would the planet be a better or worse place?" provides a simple moral compass for anyone to follow! If this simple ideal were to be adopted with complete sincerity by most of the planet's population... poverty would disappear, violent crime would go down, volunteerism would skyrocket, cities would be cleaner, people would be kinder, and the world would be better!

Just the other day I went to use the restroom at a restaurant before my food came... as I was standing there heeding nature's call... right smack in front of me was a huge gigantic booger that someone wiped on the wall! I nearly lost my appetite but I saw this as a great opportunity to do a good deed! I took a paper towel and I cleaned it off the wall even though I knew that wasn't my responsibility. By that small simple action I know I helped perhaps 20 or more people enjoy their meals that day! Why did I do that? Because I had the presence of mind to be thoughtful in a situation where I could have easily been selfish. If everyone lived with such thoughtfulness... what kind of world do you think we would be living in? For now I strive to be a revolutionary by my efforts to live by example.. but I hope that some day it will be common place to see people live with thoughtfulness when it comes to small acts that collectively have the power to change the world.

originally posted by: Parthin96
I think the replies have said what needed to be said. Is a mind-numbing Dark Age religion what we need? No.
a reply to: Drest

The replies were not very good, for the most part. All I saw was a bunch of grown adults lashing out like children at a perceived threat. It's nothing to pride yourselves in, that's for sure.

Alright folks, I think I'm done here. Your comments were interesting, in a very predictable way.

Reading this thread was like watching the herd stampede. You all ran in the same direction, which happened to be right over a cliff.

The point of the thread was perspective. You claim to be against religious absolutism, and yet you make no effort to understand the opposing perspective. You are moral absolutists in the same way that religious folks are- you believe that your morality is objectively superior, and nothing can change your minds. The irony is palpable.

So, that's all that needs to be said I think. Give yourselves a nice pat on the back for a job well done.

originally posted by: Drest


The replies were not very good, for the most part. All I saw was a bunch of grown adults lashing out like children at a perceived threat. It's nothing to pride yourselves in, that's for sure.

Although, to be honest your OP was fairly inflammatory.

Western liberal and secular society is constantly evolving. The Western society of today is different from ten years ago.

Ten years ago gay marriage was not on the horizon, but now many Western nations allow it. Social media was in its infancy but now it's mainstream (for better and worse). A hundred years ago (in the UK at least) women's suffrage was an issue, but now women can do what they like, just like men. Five hundred years ago in the UK the authority of the Church was reduced and it's been eroded since then.

There are myriad examples showing that Western society is changing. You may not like the fact that girls are educated, people can be openly gay, or my wife is both "seen and heard", but that's because society's moral compass is not artificially constrained by religion. The moral compass in the West is society itself, not some Imam reading interpreting a 1500 year-old book.

Who knows what Western society will look like in another 100 years, but we can pretty much take as read that theologically driven Islamic states (if they still exist) will be backwaters of social repression.

The imposition of Islam in the secular West would reverse societal change and take us back centuries. If you think that would not alarm people then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

I am sure Islam has some pleasant features, but all I see is religious repression and societal control, alongside internecine brutality between the denominations that has been going on for centuries. In an Islamic state my civil liberties would be curtailed and I would be silenced.

If you want to follow Islam, then that's fine by me. Don't force it down other people's necks.

If you are so disheartened by what you see in the liberal West then feel free to leave. People emigrate all the time, mostly to the West it has to be said. However, I think you are one of these people who like the comfort and safely of the West and all the benefits, but complain about it all at the same time. I expect that your convictions are not so great that you will relocate to the type of repressive society that you want for everyone else. You hate the West, but want all the benefits.

originally posted by: Drest

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: Drest
Now I feel like I've needlessly antagonized a bunch of old people. This is really unfortunate, because in real life a young guy like me wouldn't be talking that way to an older person. And I wouldn't have, had I known.

What exactly is the median age group of people frequenting this site, I wonder?

Who cares...answer the salient questions related to the OP.

Å99

You asked what the malaise is?

It's a lot of different things. Noticably, it's the lack of depth I see in people today. Where you see freedom to do what you please, I see a bunch of vultures hovering over you, preying on the impressionable in a horrifyingly subtle, clever way. It's the fear of losing your loved ones to a culture that encourages people to care only for themselves. It's the fear of your own powerlessness in the face of popular current.

It used to be, people like me could go out and live away from it all, get away from the society they so dislike. No longer. It seems like it's everywhere, it's permeated every corner of the developed world. Nowadays they'll get you for trying to do things your own way. The unassailable walls of government regulation see to that quite nicely.

Basically, it's the fear that your wonderful paradigm takes over this world. A prospect that scares me so deeply I don't know what to do. And it's so, so close.

Abstract, I know. But you asked and I answered.

But the rest of us are scared deeply that the Islamic paradigm
that we see in practiced in the Middle East is so, so close.

I lived on the German border of France
for awhile and saw what happened to
large sections of France when the Muslim paradigm
actually took over and became the defacto law.
It was and is not pretty, these sections of France
were not so slowly looking more and more like Saudi Arabia every day.

Muslim immigrants have brought "honor killing" to Europe and even the US,
this scares people like me who find the practice abhorrent.
observers.france24.com...

In the UK where large numbers of Muslims have immigrated,
there is a huge Muslim gang rape problem.
www.jihadwatch.org...
With the Muslim men saying raping girls
is a religious requirement,
or things like they deserve it because they aren't dressed properly.

This is real, this is the reality of living the Islamic paradigm.
It should scare you as much as it scares the rest of us.

But there are places you can go where you are free to live
under Islamic law and fully under the Koran.
Why not emigrate to those places?
You will be happier.

We don't want honor killing, we don't want slavery,
we don't want killing people for apostasy,
we don't want our women to be chattel,
we don't want our little girls handed over to old
men to marry,
we don't want all the lovely things that have come
to the vast majority if not all countries that are
100% under religious Islamic law.


But if you are convinced that living under Islamic law
is paradise, don't force it on the rest of us.
Go and live in peace. I suggest Iran, Afghanistan, or
Saudi Arabia.

a reply to: Drest

Do you live in a western country? .
Just seen the answer.
Sorry it makes you a hypocrite if you continue to love in the west enjoying our freedoms.
Don't like it..
Move and leave the rest of us who do not wish to live with thr shackles of religion.

a reply to: Drest

The point of the thread was perspective. You claim to be against religious absolutism, and yet you make no effort to understand the opposing perspective.

Sweetie, I think this is the problem. We have seen too much, and personally, I know more about this religion than I ever, ever wanted to. I long for the days, not that far in the past, that I was innocent and had never heard the word "jihad", or "caliphate', or "sharia".

I truly wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then. If that hurts you sorry. It hurts me too.

A world fraught by godtards and their bigoted delusions needs more godtards obtruding their bigoted delusions.

Sounds logical.