Why is the Sun Setting North of Due West? - I Am Above The Tropic of Cancer

I too have noticed many changes but i've given up reporting them as all information is over written when this happens the information down here changes with the changes,the Inuit and others have also noticed,but they like me are labelled as flat earthers.

Darn it... I'm SURE the sun sets in the East and then rises from the East, too... it's been happening frequently the last few years... always in the East!

But I do drink, etc. ... frequently.

a reply to: khnum

What the Inuit saw was ice melt.

They were interviewed for a global warming documentary btw.

a reply to: cooperton

Have a read of this thread..

The sun is exactly where it should be

originally posted by: cooperton
All I asked for was the astronomical phenomenon that makes it appear as though the sun is north of due west at sunset from an observer at the 40th latitude. Like you said, the sun should NOT be directly overhead any point north of the 23rd latitude...so my question is... why is it north of that point by 32 degrees?

The Sun should not be north of this point at mid-day (high noon), not during sunrise or sunset. The reason it rises and sets in the north is because of the axial tilt and the rotation of the Earth. As the Earth rotates at a 23 degree tilt, in the summer the plane of the equator points down compared to the plane of the Earth's orbit, so the Sun appears above it. In the winter it points up and so the Sun appears below it. This phenomenon diminishes as the Earth rotates toward mid day when the Sun appears overhead instead of along the horizon. This diagram is helpful for visualizing:



Alternatively think about it this way: in the high Arctic the Sun doesn't set during summer, it just loops around the sky. So from your position at 40 degrees N, the mid-summer Sun rises and sets further and further north as you go higher and higher in latitude, until you get to a point where it no longer even dips below the horizon - and instead "the midnight Sun" appears due north.

originally posted by: Chadwickus
a reply to: khnum

What the Inuit saw was ice melt.

They were interviewed for a global warming documentary btw.

Actually what they saw was changes in refraction, but yes it was ultimately sourced back to a warming atmosphere:

The scientific explanation is that the warming Arctic air is causing temperature inversions, which in turn cause the light of the sunset to refract so that the sun appears to be setting a few kilometres off-kilter. "There is so much garbage in the air, it's refraction that's causing our elders to think our world has tilted," Kunuk says.

New documentary recounts bizarre climate changes seen by Inuit elders

It's ironic how much that anecdote about Inuit elders is sourced as evidence that the Earth's tilt/orbit has shifted, and that's what's actually causing climate change, when the science simply once again points to greenhouse gases.

a reply to: Astyanax

the OP is far from unique [ at least in the USA ] in those beliefs

at least with regard to absolute literal creationism - over 50 milion of his fellow americans shere that belief

a reply to: cooperton

I feel sorry for you as it seems that the most knowledgably people are giving you a hammering from grade 3 science up to physics with even a mother’s opinion involved. I find your thread interesting and would like to see less negative and more explanatory replies so I can also learn. My three most difficult years in school were in grade 2

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: AdmireTheDistance
Ummm...I take it you don't get outside much....This is like, 3rd grade level stuff here... Smh.

The sun is supposed to never be directly above any point north of the 24th latitude line. I, living on the 40th latitude, see the sun being north of my house.

If the sun is not supposed to be north of the 24th latitude line, how is it north of the 40th latitude line?

originally posted by: RoadCourse
Be careful dude,
If you continue to question the Sun,
You'll be labeled a racist...
Then get shot by the pigs.

Just tryn to look out for you man.

HA! you seem to be spot on. I am just baffled by some of the responses I have gotten so far...

You are probably using a compass to determiner east and west without ,making the local variations for magnetic deviation . It can be so extreme in some places to make what you are suggesting a fact if you don't do the math. Magnetic North and true North are only the same in a couple of places on earth, Bermuda triangle for one.

a reply to: mc_squared

Ahh cool, I was just going off memory..not always reliable..

a reply to: cooperton

This morning at 9 a.m. I observed the sunrise to be in the southeast where I would expect it to be.

No, you didn't. Sunrise was about 5:52 AM and at 63° azimuth from Philadelphia, for example.
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania coordinates 39.9491° N, 75.1606° W

www.timeanddate.com...

originally posted by: mc_squared

Alternatively think about it this way: in the high Arctic the Sun doesn't set during summer, it just loops around the sky. So from your position at 40 degrees N, the mid-summer Sun rises and sets further and further north as you go higher and higher in latitude, until you get to a point where it no longer even dips below the horizon - and instead "the midnight Sun" appears due north.

Correct me if I am wrong, but from the north pole when the sun does not set in the summer, it would appear in the south....

Your picture is inaccurate, the tropic lines should be curved, and should not be using a picture that uses Eucidean geometry. And the very inaccurate proportions and distances are also deceptive. Anyone living above the tropic of cancer should observe a sunset that is south of due west. So, Why is the sunset north of due west?

I genuinely thank anyone who has said anything constructive or inquisitive. For those who understand why what I am observing may be odd, here is a potential explanation for the phenomenon:


Magnetic North moving towards Siberia
Magnetic North is moving towards Russia
North Pole moving... more "north"

originally posted by: Sunwolf
If so you are not the only one,I have had to plant trees 12 ft further north to screen the evening sun where I sit on my patio.The sun is setting further and further north in the past 15 years.I am at 36 degrees.

It's good to hear there are others who aren't chained in Plato's Cave.

originally posted by: cooperton

I genuinely thank anyone who has said anything constructive or inquisitive. For those who understand why what I am observing may be odd, here is a potential explanation for the phenomenon:

The location of the magnetic pole has zip.diddley to do with the rotational axis. They are not the same.

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: cooperton

I genuinely thank anyone who has said anything constructive or inquisitive. For those who understand why what I am observing may be odd, here is a potential explanation for the phenomenon:

The location of the magnetic pole has zip.diddley to do with the rotational axis. They are not the same.

Can you give me an alternate explanation then? You know the sun should never go north of its northern limitor: the Tropic of Cancer.

originally posted by: cooperton
Can you give me an alternate explanation then? You know the sun should never go north of its northern limitor: the Tropic of Cancer.

Sure.

1) you incorrectly determined the sun's location
2) you are wrong about where the limit is
3) you are measuring at a time other than noon local

Lots of people using sextants that get the right position every day. It's amazingly straightforward to calculate where the Sun ought to be for any lat/long and time of day, and then use an instrument, a telescope or sextant would do, if you know how to do it, to verify that position.

And, of course, for the sun "to be in the wrong place", you have to assume that either the sun has moved physically, which isn't happening, or that the axial tilt of the earth has suddenly changed, which also isn't happening. There's a reason that precession/nutation takes thousands of years to show, and that's because there is an ungodly amount of energy required to change the rotational axis of a large spinning body, and if you try to do it too fast, even if you HAD the energy to cause this, the earth would come apart.

So, frankly, given the choices
1) something moved the Sun, and no one noticed
2) something changed the rotational axis of the Earth, and not only no one noticed, but it didn't just go "bang" and leave a nice ring around the sun, after devastating earthquakes, tidal waves etc that no one noticed either
3) cooperton got his observation wrong

I'm going with 3.

No doubt it's because of Global Warming and thus your fault.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape get over it

i think a great many Ats-ers need to 'get over' themselves - they are entirely unwelcoming of, and rudely dismissive to, any poor non-scientific member who simply asks certain questions. bad form. bad manners. how about simply correcting any perceived mistakes without the endless snide and derogatory remarks? that kind of verbiage actively dissuades others from making the leap from lurker to participant. snarky pettiness is not the mark of an open mind.

harumph!

@ cooperton - S & F to you

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Hold on, solar winds are causing the sun to set in a different place? Is that really what you're saying?

a reply to: cooperton

Download Stellarium, a freeware program that will show you the sky from any point on the Earth, and will allow you to change the dates and time manually.

I punched in 40 N lat (near Paris, France) and pointed the screen west, then set the time near sunset. I then set the date to back in March and started to advance the days.

You will see the sun is setting south of west during the month of March, but will continue to move north of west until around June 21-22 (the longest day), at which point it will start moving closer to west again going south.

Where we see the sun set is determined by: where you are located on Earth, the time and the date. The reason it appears to move north/south at sun set (and sun rise) is because of the Earth's 23 degree tilt on it's axis and because it is orbiting the sun fixed at that tilt.

In order for the sun to never appear to set north of due west, you would have to move to a latitude much further north than 40 N Lat. Like closer to or above the Arctic Circle.

If I get time, I'll make a quick video showing this and will post it here.

It's because the Earth is flat.