Drag Queens banned from Pride Parade in Scotland

a reply to: Cuervo

You mean he used to be worse than this?

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

from your source. . .

"Drag queens have been banned from performing at a Pride event in case they offend transgender people."


That line has to be the funniest damned thing I've read in a while.

Do drag queens offend transgender people because they are too gay, or not gay enough?

*I think I caught gay reading this thread!*

My PC Offended Card is bigger than Your PC Offended Card.

This is good. When you thought PC couldn't get any more ridiculous.

I also think there may be some confusion as to the inclusion of Trans within the GLBTQ+ community, those who don't want to identify as Trans and want to live a Cis-Normal and Cis-Privileged life and those that do want to be identified as Trans and identify as part of the GLBTQ+ community.. many assume to Include Trans people as part of the GLBTQ+ community and identify them as such

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
Not banned for being an offensive parody of women for hundreds of years but banned due to being offensive to men that think of themselves as women or women that think of themselves as men.

It was only a matter of time before ludicrous ''political correctness'' self destructed.

Can we talk via U2U? I generally like you and your posts but that's pretty hurtful.

a reply to: Cuervo

I've witnessed your evolution in coming around to what, exactly, it is that transgender people go through. I know that your words were far more hurtful in the past so I'll cut you some slack these days because I understand that it's a process to accept certain things.

Well it's appreciated. I used to hate gay people so it's certainly reasonable to think I'll come around or change my view on some things regarding trans* people in the future. My position currently is that trans* people are just people that want to be recognized as the person they feel they are. I think my only issue with that is not disclosing surgery at the point of brown chicken brown cow.

However, you must understand that, for as long as there are people who speak as you have and far worse, there will always be a need for advocacy for transgender folks. When a transwoman or transman no longer wants to identify as trans*, they are not doing so because they are alienating the rest of the transgender demographic; they are doing it because they are succeeding at what most of us want to succeed at: living a normal life.

Well, yeah. There should always be advocates for any group that has historically been crapped on. I think you would be surprised if you met me, I'm going to be the first to tell someone to STFU if they're being nasty to someone different for no reason. I get that they want to slip into a new life, I get it. My issue is not with that, but the false assumption that there is actually no difference, and that everyone else would be OK with it. By all means, don't out yourself, unless you're going to be having sex or an intimate relationship. I would rather that a transgender person could live openly, and that would be considered normal. I have no beef with transgender people, I'm actually wildly impressed with the bravery so many exhibit. I just think that it's important to realize that transgender people ARE different, and that since some people are uncomfortable with those differences, in certain situations those differences should be brought to light.

I think the reason it makes people uncomfortable is because many seem to think they are entitled to know everything about everybody and it gets under their skin to think that the pretty girl at the bar may have been born with a penis. The thought that a transwoman may give them an awkward erection makes them feel threatened. This sort of intrusive entitlement the average person believe they have into the lives of others is the exact reason many trans folk go into stealth.

Well yeah, I agree. No one should always feel the need to bare their soul 100% of the time. I'm sure I've gotten amorous feelings looking at a transgender person before, that doesn't bug me (I'm actually positive I have on one occasion, she was hot). I think it's important to disclose a very big difference that people would have a problem with before coitus or at the onset of a romantic relationship. Not at work, not to strangers, just in certain moments of intimacy, and I do believe even a casual sexual encounter requires a certain amount of intimacy.

I think the reason it makes people uncomfortable is because many seem to think they are entitled to know everything about everybody and it gets under their skin to think that the pretty girl at the bar may have been born with a penis. The thought that a transwoman may give them an awkward erection makes them feel threatened. This sort of intrusive entitlement the average person believe they have into the lives of others is the exact reason many trans folk go into stealth.

I have no issue with someone wanting to stay stealth as long as they inform potential sex and romantic partners. Other than that, it's no one's business. If someone wants to stealth it, and live there life, I think that's just as important for trans* rights as the successful businesswoman that comes out and shows people that it's the person that counts.

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
I also think there may be some confusion as to the inclusion of Trans within the GLBTQ+ community, those who don't want to identify as Trans and want to live a Cis-Normal and Cis-Privileged life and those that do want to be identified as Trans and identify as part of the GLBTQ+ community.. many assume to Include Trans people as part of the GLBTQ+ community and identify them as such

What do you think of people like Domo who would rather force all trans people to be potentially marginalized and discriminated against by demanding those of us who live cis-normative lives to disclose corrective medical procedures which people like Ekron and I put behind us years ago to even the most casual relationships (and therefore potentially to acquaintances, co-workers, landlord, neighbors, etc)?

Where does that even come from other than a place of transphobic fear?

originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: Cuervo
I think it's important to disclose a very big difference that people would have a problem with before coitus or at the onset of a romantic relationship. Not at work, not to strangers, just in certain moments of intimacy, and I do believe even a casual sexual encounter requires a certain amount of intimacy.

I have no issue with someone wanting to stay stealth as long as they inform potential sex and romantic partners. Other than that, it's no one's business. If someone wants to stealth it, and live there life.

By all means, don't out yourself, unless you're going to be having sex or an intimate relationship.

If only life and relationships and who we fall for or who falls in love with us were so simple and cut and dry.

You act as though no one gossips or gets involved with someone they work with or someone they didn't work with but slept with suddenly gets hired at the same place etc...

It's not that simple. But you think it is.

Short of celibacy or constantly moving geographically, no one would EVER be able to live cis-normative lives (aka stealth).

In that other thread I mentioned that many people would like us to wear a scarlet letter "T". And then one guy in that thread said that he wanted there to be a US law to have our genital area branded ala african slave trade/nazi prison camp style.

What you offer is a softer form of the same fascism: T-shaming us for not disclosing to causal sex partners.

What do you and he both have in common?

You you both want to gender police our sex lives and therefore our lives because we can not control who knows what about us once it leaves our lips. Period.

Inevitably people talk and so we are then forced (by people like you who do not accept us as normal) to give up our cis-normative lives (which we and our families often worked hard and sacrificed for) or move geographically. A choice forced on us which would not be forced on anyone else.

All I hear from you Domo is: "I'm not telling you how you should live your life but i'm going to tell you how you should live your life." and Of course you are free people now. You're free to ride at the back of the bus and discriminated against."

And that is done for the same reason any other people who want to control what people they perceive as different do.

You'll never see me as normal so why should I do what you say? Answer: I probably shouldn't.

That's all that is to this. End of story.

a reply to: JadeStar

You can't force anyone to do anything, i've said that personally i would identify as Trans, as i openly Identify Genderfluid and Gay now, but that is me, i can understand why others such as you would not want the Trans label and want to live a Cis-Normal life and be accepted as you are, which is a Normal Woman

Personally speaking i would be upfront about it, but again it's a personal decision and i wont judge anyone who thinks different.

i'm sure some of it comes from Transpohbia, some of it comes from Homophobia for those that don't understand Gender and Sexual Orientation are different and think a Trans Woman is just a Man, some of it comes from ignorance as they lack knowledge of Trans people

a reply to: JadeStar

Kind of like this Original Story, they wanted to Gender Police Drag Queens in a sense

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: JadeStar

Kind of like this Original Story, they wanted to Gender Police Drag Queens in a sense

I agree with you and said it earlier in this thread. I think if there were any issues between the transgender group and the drag performers then they need to iron them out and be more selective in who is banned and why. I never thought banning a whole group made any sense. That should only ever be a last resort in response to massive problems with the group as a whole.

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: JadeStar

You can't force anyone to do anything, i've said that personally i would identify as Trans, as i openly Identify Genderfluid and Gay now, but that is me, i can understand why others such as you would not want the Trans label and want to live a Cis-Normal life and be accepted as you are, which is a Normal Woman

Personally speaking i would be upfront about it, but again it's a personal decision and i wont judge anyone who thinks different.

Thank you. I have been too but my argument is that I feel it is being told to sit at the back of the bus. I should have the choice of if, when and how I disclose. That is a PERSONAL choice and Domo should not be allowed to t-shame me into if when or how I do it. I mean one guy wanted us all branded. Both are gender policing.

i'm sure some of it comes from Transpohbia, some of it comes from Homophobia for those that don't understand Gender and Sexual Orientation are different and think a Trans Woman is just a Man, some of it comes from ignorance as they lack knowledge of Trans people

Exactly which is why I said if I had to date again (i hope i never do) i do not think I would want to disclose to someone unless it was going to become more serious.

originally posted by: Kojiro
a reply to: Cuervo

You mean he used to be worse than this?

If people never changed, we wouldn't have the majority of America approving marriage equality today.

When we see people take steps in a positive and healthy direction, it's easy to find ourselves begrudging the pace at which they walk. I've been trying not to do that lately.

I have to remind myself sometimes of the difference between innocent ignorance and willful ignorance. Most people who have broad misconceptions about us have been conditioned since childhood by Hollywood, religion, or prejudiced parents. In a way, they have been wronged, too. The ones who see it are the ones who allow the balance to tip and for progress to be made.

But some people are definitely not going to open their mind to anything but what they were already told by people they were commanded to respect for one arbitrary reason or another. Those are the ones I can dismiss and not feel guilty about. Distinguishing the two is tough.

duplicate post sorry...

a reply to: Darth_Prime

i'm sure some of it comes from Transpohbia, some of it comes from Homophobia for those that don't understand Gender and Sexual Orientation are different and think a Trans Woman is just a Man, some of it comes from ignorance as they lack knowledge of Trans people

I quite like you, and think that you're just enough removed to be able to answer this question intellectually instead of emotionally. Do you think I'm homophobic, transphobic or ignorant, or a combination of some or all? I'm sure others are going to gleefully chime in, and that's fine, but I would like your honest opinion and also Quervo's. As far as I'm concerned you're both able to be rather understanding of views that differ from your own and realize that doesn't make someone automatically hateful.

a reply to: JadeStar

Yes, it's a personal decision... if not may as well put Inverted Pink and Black Triangles on us all

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: JadeStar

Yes, it's a personal decision... if not may as well put Inverted Pink and Black Triangles on us all

Thank you so much. *hug*

a reply to: Domo1

Thank you

To be honest, if what you post is true about Supporting Trans people and understanding they are Born that way and a Trans Woman is in fact a Woman and a Trans Man is in fact a Man, under the definition of Transphobia, no i wouldn't call you that

Researchers describe transphobia as emotional disgust, fear, anger or discomfort felt or expressed towards people who do not conform to society's gender expectations

Now, what i have said in the past is that you are certain that you would not be attracted to a Trans Woman, if we replaced that with "i'll never be attracted to a Black Woman" does that sound Racist?

Just as much as you can't shame a Trans person for not wanting to identify as Trans and live a Cis-Normal life, also on the other side of finding out someone is Trans you can't shame them for it being emotionally heavy, doesn't mean you/they are Transphobic

The thing is you can't force attraction, for example some Men are not attracted to me because i am feminine a Drag Performer and Genderfluid, i wouldn't call them Homophobic

i think it would be better if people saw each other past their Genitals or what the "Expectations" are... but in the end.. no i wouldn't call you Transphobic or Homophobic

Maybe you would be Attracted to a fully transitioned Trans Woman and never know she was Trans, maybe fall in love.. hypothetically

a reply to: JadeStar



No need to thank me, it's the truth

*hugs back*

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: Domo1


Maybe you would be Attracted to a fully transitioned Trans Woman and never know she was Trans, maybe fall in love.. hypothetically

And if that scenario scared him what would that make him?

originally posted by: Domo1
a reply to: Darth_Prime

i'm sure some of it comes from Transpohbia, some of it comes from Homophobia for those that don't understand Gender and Sexual Orientation are different and think a Trans Woman is just a Man, some of it comes from ignorance as they lack knowledge of Trans people

I quite like you, and think that you're just enough removed to be able to answer this question intellectually instead of emotionally. Do you think I'm homophobic, transphobic or ignorant, or a combination of some or all? I'm sure others are going to gleefully chime in, and that's fine, but I would like your honest opinion and also Quervo's. As far as I'm concerned you're both able to be rather understanding of views that differ from your own and realize that doesn't make someone automatically hateful.

I think you are insensitive, not bigoted. I have acquaintances who will use slurs and treat me disrespectfully at times but would also vote for my rights as an individual and as a transperson. It's not ideal and I'll tell them as much but they started out so indoctrinated against anything outside of the cis-normative spectrum that it's hard for me to complain about where they are now.

What many late-in-life transitioning people won't tell you is that, during their years of suppression, a common way to cope is to act in the same manner that most others do in regards to transgender people. For the transladies, it served as a handy male-affirming go-to when the dysphoria started to pop up. Just like monster trucks and the military. Many of us just have short memories. Even during those years, I considered myself an "ally" to the LGBT movement but, in retrospect, I had a lot of toxic words come out of my mouth that would pain me today to hear with my ears.

I guess you can say that bigotry, like gender and sexuality, lands on a spectrum and not on a binary switch.