You Might Be A Terrorist If You... Well If You Do Just About Anything Normal.

Rhetoric and propagandizement... In my opinion these are the predominant and pressing issues of the day. That is not to say that other matters are without merit - far from it. The current state of affairs, on all levels, is degrading at an alarming level.

Having said that, I would offer that the broad and endless application of spin is deeply exacerbating to things that were already difficult to begin with. Spin makes bad things worse. Sometimes infinitely worse. Moreover spin can actually take a non-problematic issue and turn it into a very dangerous one.

The current United States military misadventures in the Middle East speak to this exact subject. Propaganda led us into action and now the consequences of that action serve as the excuse to make it a never ending nightmare scenario that is not only destabilizing a large swath of the planet, destroying economies, killing our young... but that is also being used as the ex parte excuse for horrendous actions across the board. That is to say both internationally and domestically.

This thread represents my thoughts on the latest transgression against us, as a society, saddled comfortably within the spin.

The Islamic State group's effort to inspire troubled Americans to violence has become more of a terror threat to the U.S. than an external attack by al-Qaida, the FBI director said Wednesday...

FBI Director James Comey told an audience at the Aspen Security Forum that the Islamic State group, which has proclaimed a caliphate in parts of Syria and Iraq, has influenced a significant but unknown number of Americans through a year-long campaign on social media urging Muslims who can't travel to the Middle East to "kill where you are."...

The FBI has arrested a significant number of people over the last eight weeks who had been radicalized, Comey said, without specifying a number. He repeated his previous disclosure, without elaborating, that several people were arrested who were planning attacks related to the July Fourth holiday. The bureau has hundreds of investigations pending into such cases across the country...

"I worry very much about what I can't see," Comey added, because he said Islamic State group recruiters use encrypted communication software to avoid U.S. eavesdropping.

Full article here

While, on the surface, these words seem to address a singular issue, specifically the apprehension of those deemed to have been domestically "radicalized" by ISIS /ISIL - there is so much more to be seen - and the words "written between the lines" really do not apply as it's all a bit more obvious than that.

The first thing that jumps out at me is the propaganda and fear mongering inherent in these situations... the utter disregard for historical context, accuracy and an apparent disdain for the very concept that readers have either memory or an ability to comprehend on a level above that of a houseplant. By throwing around the phrase "worse than Al Qaida", without rational context or qualifiers is nearly criminal. The intended implication, of course, is that ISIS / ISIL are potentially going to do something that makes 9/11 seem like a walk in the park. The reality of the statement is not nearly that frightening. In context what the sentence means is that the current, heavily neutered and largely dismantled Al Qaida is not as much of a risk today as ISIS / ISIL is. It is not intended to mean that the current ISIS / ISIL is more of a danger than Al Qaida ever was.

Even more troubling - this logical trick is not being said to target the actual body of ISIS / ISIL in the Middle East. This man is discussing AMERICANS and people living in NORTH AMERICA.

Divide et impera in a starkly obvious and vicious form.

As painful as this is, it gets worse. So much worse.

If you read the article you will notice some very broad brush painting and vague generalizations. Concepts like Twitter accounts, people who suffer mental health issues and those who use encryption are all casually implicated as the shade of guilt is passingly laid onto these groups. This man, the Director of the FBI, in one broad and sweeping statement is basically telling us that we should fear and hold suspect any and all who might fit the bill.

But here's the rub, speaking from the only perspective I have... my own. As a curious person who knows that the media lies, I tend to research what I read, regardless of source. In the past I have been burned, more than once by sourcing a supposedly reputable news provider. We know that domestic propaganda is a real thing. We also know that reporters, particularly in the early stages of an evolving story, tend to make a lot of mistakes in their race to be the first to report. So the onus ends up being upon US to discern what is factual and what is not. In the course of this research many of us ( I would think ) might well Google terms like "ISIS", "______ attack", "_______ bombing", "terror", etc ( blanks indicate the disaster Du Jour that applies ).

With that in mind, revisit the article and read it subjectively. Scared yet? Do you get the impression from it that if you simply do a bit of research you might end up being seen as "radicalized" in the eyes of the law on some level?

If you send out a Tweet or Facebook post saying that you do not agree with our wars or our treatment of other nations - are you "radicalized"?

If you think the NSA sucks and you deliberately encrypt your email because, well because screw the NSA - are you "radicalized"?

In my opinion an ill wind is blowing and it does not bode well. Our current domestic policies remind me more of China and of Soviet era Russia than it does anything I would associate with American exceptionalism or American morality. We are far closer to 1984 than we are to 1776 right now.

Where there is smoke, there is fire. And I, for one, can't breathe or see for the cloud of sulfurous smog filling the air.

Thanks for reading!

Very well said!

destroying economies, killing our young

Really disturbing to say the least. We proclaim the military as such a great thing for our youth, but the reality is militaries only exist for war, and people die in war.

In the past I have been burned, more than once by sourcing a supposedly reputable news provider

We all have, and it's frustrating to no end. But thanks to people like yourself we have sparked convo's regarding these very topics making sure they remain relevant and we don't become too complacent.

Many thanks to you for that

a reply to: Hefficide

Heff you don't write you compose music for our eyes .

Defence they call it yes, attacking terrorists/country's far away creating way more of them(terrorists/extremists) in the progress. Which is no miracle, war is extremist in itself (especially when starting wars where you don't defend your own borders).
We get millions of refugees/immigrants from those countries (iraq, Libya, afghanistan, Syria etc) in Europe, fleeing their countries which are in chaos and total destruction often.
And they say terrorists are the greatest threat...

Btw I think the US also should open their doors for all those people fleeing their countries in the Middle East and send some boats so people can get in the US for free, now Europe gets by far most of the burden.

a reply to: Hefficide

a reply to: Hefficide

While I wholeheartedly agree with the majority of your fears regarding the bombastic manner these issues are discussed and the implications these have for personal liberty and the potential chilling of freedoms as a whole, there are a couple of things to consider here.

Most "journalism" in our time isn't worth the paper it's no longer printed on. Every day we see gossip and personal attacks on individuals presented as "news", when really it's nothing more than inane nonsense for simplistic minds. When you have a society which seems to crave the latest Kardashian antics more than it wants to be informed about issues actually impacting upon our lives and societies, the end result is a watering down of the information we're given.

For every single decent and ethical journalist out there, we see perhaps another thousand airhead tabloid writers barely able to drag themselves away from reality TV long enough to elongate a Tweet into a 500 word "story".

Then you have a poisonous relationship between government and journalism which doesn't exactly foster trust in either. The White House has made no bones about black-listing journalists who dare to be critical, and that encompasses a rainbow of "punishments" from simply refusing to accept a question from a "difficult" journalist to actively refusing to allow a publication to enter the room.

Aside from blaming journalists, there's the issue of the genuine threat.

While I completely agree that the feeling is oppressive sometimes, and there absolutely needs to be greater accountability and monitoring of all methods used by all our governments in their efforts to keep people safe, how many people have been investigated, detained, or imprisoned, for simply doing "anything normal"?

Once again I agree there needs to be change and greater accountability, but it's not as if we're all being rounded up for investigation simply for daring to express an opinion critical of our governments. One cursory look through the endless threads on this very forum shows that there are some extremely vociferous individuals here who aren't scared in the slightest in their condemnation of a government.

The resources simply are not there to achieve such monitoring either. The fear might be that by typing something into Google or expressing an opinion on Facebook will lead to you being deemed a "threat", but where is the evidence for that? There doesn't seem to be any, only fears that it's happening or will. If your government wanted to treat anyone deemed critical of your government to be a threat to national security, they would need to hire half of the country to work 12 hour shifts just in admin alone.

Yes, things need to change with regard to oversight and accountability, but if we all acknowledge that we also have to acknowledge the fact that while our governments have successfully prevented several attacks they've also not started rounding up anyone who has a different opinion about the government.

"Where there is smoke, there is fire." - Where's the smoke?

a reply to: Rocker2013

The smoke I speak of is readily apparent in many areas. Domestic spying - which, BTW, as recently as two or three years ago was considered the sole purvey of deluded conspiracy theorists... right up until it wasn't.

Another example is the current series of events unfolding due to the actions of the most recent two mass shooters. One triggered racial unrest, debates about social correctness, etc. The other, the Chattanooga shooter, has led to armed civilians "protecting" military offices ( I see this as a very dangerous situation. How long is it going to be before a dark skinned young man decides he wants to serve, only to end up shot to death by an over-zealous "Patriot", consumed by propaganda based fear and with no qualms about profiling ). This second shooter has also sparked the Executive branch to initiate a move to prevent anyone who receives disability and has a designated representative payee from having Second Amendment rights.

What most do not know is that most people are denied SSDI across the board - right up until they go before a Judge ( At which point the majority are then approved ) and that the Judges customarily order a representative payee if one is in the picture. It is much like the fact that most Family Court Judges in states that offer Child Support recover will order child support payment to those services automatically.

More smoke. And smoke as seen through very liberal eyes that have endlessly argued against everyone screaming that Obama wants their guns. This time if they start yelling, I've not got a leg to stand on.

I could cite a lot more "smoke" that is recent, but I think these examples are adequate to make the point.

Smoke and mirrors yes and we the people start to care less and less. We feel powerless, what can we do, hold protests? that doesn't do anything meaningful or at least not too many will show up to make a difference.

It's like we are consumed with a flood of information, what's right or wrong often people don't know (anymore) and very often more and more what's should be good is considered bad which is again perceived as ok, and again people start to care less about it. Things get upside down more and more.

But this man ''Graham Hancock'' giving a speech about the end days of Egypt gives a good summary in essence which also speaks volume about the current (end?) days, starting about at 1.12.30 (until the end of the video):



Better than I could trying to explain it, the speech starts slow (& perhaps seems boring) but when you have patience it's really good!

youtu.be...

a reply to: Hefficide

the utter disregard for historical context, accuracy and an apparent disdain for the very concept that readers have either memory or an ability to comprehend on a level above that of a houseplant.

lol excuse me sir but I think most houseplants would be offended by that comparison to our lowly human intillectual capacities.

Remember this list?

You might be a terrorist if you use these words online or over your phone:





You said it well Heff. It's a deep and dark rabbit hole we've fallen into.

Jude

originally posted by: Hefficide
The smoke I speak of is readily apparent in many areas. Domestic spying - which, BTW, as recently as two or three years ago was considered the sole purvey of deluded conspiracy theorists... right up until it wasn't.

I agree, and that's one of the things I clearly stated needs to be overhauled. My concern with this is that the ends do not justify the means, and there seems to be little control of regulation/oversight. The moment American politicians responsible for overseeing that stepped out of the room looking shocked about what they were never told was happening should have led to an immediate shut down and review of all intelligence gathering and domestic spying.

Still, even with this mass (illegal) spying on innocent people, you're still not being detained, arrested or charged with anything for doing nothing more than being critical of your government.

There are still hundreds of thousands of militia members and gun owners across the US not being arrested, investigated or detained. There are still "Christian" speakers holding seminars and telling hundreds in attendance that a "war against the gay" is coming. There are still "Christian" preachers in New York putting up signs threatening death to others. There are still right wingers making radio shows and YouTube videos about the "coming revolution" without being detained or charged with anything.

originally posted by: Hefficide
Another example is the current series of events unfolding due to the actions of the most recent two mass shooters. One triggered racial unrest, debates about social correctness, etc. The other, the Chattanooga shooter, has led to armed civilians "protecting" military offices ( I see this as a very dangerous situation. How long is it going to be before a dark skinned young man decides he wants to serve, only to end up shot to death by an over-zealous "Patriot", consumed by propaganda based fear and with no qualms about profiling ). This second shooter has also sparked the Executive branch to initiate a move to prevent anyone who receives disability and has a designated representative payee from having Second Amendment rights.

I also think it's very important to know the difference between nonsense and truth. For instance, the recent Confederate flag theft "challenge" discussed on this very forum turned out to be bs. It wasn't happening, there was one video of one black guy stealing a flag, and a couple of thousand retweets using the #, 99% of them saying it was stupid, or not true, and yet some right wing rags ran with it and managed to convince a lot of eager fellow right wingers that this was indeed happening.

Public stupidity is not controlled by the mainstream media, nor the government.

As for gun laws, I think it's entirely right that someone who has been medically proven to be incapable of caring for themselves not be permitted to own guns.

And your Constitution clearly states “well regulated militia”. Conveniently this is constantly overlooked by those who believe absolutely everyone should be armed regardless.

originally posted by: Hefficide
What most do not know is that most people are denied SSDI across the board - right up until they go before a Judge ( At which point the majority are then approved ) and that the Judges customarily order a representative payee if one is in the picture. It is much like the fact that most Family Court Judges in states that offer Child Support recover will order child support payment to those services automatically.

I have no idea what this means or how it relates to this discussion at all.
We're talking about propaganda and the threat posed by a government incorrectly deeming people to be a threat to national security - something I have yet to see actually happening.

originally posted by: Hefficide
More smoke. And smoke as seen through very liberal eyes that have endlessly argued against everyone screaming that Obama wants their guns. This time if they start yelling, I've not got a leg to stand on.

Okay, this was non-partisan until this point.
Are you really just mad at the notion that the US government now deems right wing fanatics as being a terrorist threat?
If so, I have nothing more to say on it other than they are absolutely right.
Terrorist does not automatically mean Muslim. We know for a fact that there are plenty of white, American, "Christian", right wing extremists in America, we see them every day on this forum and others.
Is your argument that because they're white/American/Republican/Christian (insert anything not "dusky person with a Middle Eastern sounding name") that they should be ignored and the US govt should just pretend it's not real?

Personally, even with their transgressions and their lack of accountability, I would prefer to trust the judgment of the many hundreds of men and women serving their country in the intelligence business when it comes to what is a real and present threat, more than I will someone who knows nothing about that intelligence or their reasons for coming to the conclusions they come to.

I think we're just at the point where any reaction is an overreaction. Including some of these theories. I'd like to hear someones logical idea of how else we're supposed to deal with the current global situation, on a security level. Fictitious what if's don't really help anybody. The world has become so connected that any growing global, idealized sense of freedom (sorry to say it) is going to have to be globally governed. I think it's going to take a good bit of prerequisites to fit the bill, and yeah, if you send off enough red flags, in this day an age you need to be questioned. This is really about technology more than anything, so again if you want the freedom to be able to be globally connected as we pretty much all are, expect to be more heavily governed. The most dangerous weapon in the world right now is the f'n internet. You want real freedom? Try freeing yourself from it.

You know, I've been watching the spin, with the recruiting shooting. At first, at least on my local news, he was just a depressed, angry guy.
Now he has become a radicalized Muslim, and we need to "expect" more attacks like this, on US soil.

Hmmmm,

I have to wonder if they are just baiting militia types to question, and stand up to them. (Government)

Because hey, then all "Militia" groups can be publicly labeled as domestic terrorists.

And there goes the last group that would stand against them, for the general public.

And then we are truely toast.

Sad state of affairs we are in today.

a reply to: Hefficide

Long time, no see, Heff. Great thread!
You have to wonder just what makes a terrorist in their eyes. I looked at a list of keywords that the NSA uses for its hotlist. It's an eye opener and is very scary. Anything to do with upholding the constitution and various other things were on there. You can find a list here and here. Here is a keyword generator that you can use that will guarantee that you'll be flagged as a terrorist. So, basically, anyone and everyone can be a terrorist.
I saw this video yesterday. I think that you'll find it relevant to this thread:

Remember the camps they had during world war 2 they had for people that were born as Japanese?

The real terrorist are the CIA working for the globalist and the corrupt mainstream media. It is a fact that the CIA has declared war against We The People. Just look at who controls and creates terrorism in the world today. It is the CIA.

originally posted by: jude11
Remember this list?

You might be a terrorist if you use these words online or over your phone:

You said it well Heff. It's a deep and dark rabbit hole we've fallen into.

Jude

I used 47 of those words just ordering my breakfast burrito this morning.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: jude11
Remember this list?

You might be a terrorist if you use these words online or over your phone:

You said it well Heff. It's a deep and dark rabbit hole we've fallen into.

Jude

I used 47 of those words just ordering my breakfast burrito this morning.

Breakfast Burrito?

Lemme guess...

Brown Out was the theme.

Jude

a reply to: Hefficide

I read your OP with great interest and it made me wonder, for the very first time.

Do you think that its possible that, in the hidden halls and meeting rooms of the Liberal intelligentsia that establishes long term policy for the US Government, that has promulgated Propaganda efforts like Multiculturalism, Diversity training, open borders, the establishment of refugee immigration policies, they the Intelligentsia have decided its fundamentally unfair that US Americans live in relative peace and quiet, relatively free of random acts of violence while the rest of the world seethes in violence, bombings, random shootings and attacks on civilians such as seen in Syria, Kenya, Nigeria, etc.?

Did that question make any sense?

a reply to: TonyS

To be honest I think that the folks in the hallowed halls of Washington do not actually consider anything based upon liberal or conservative values or ideas. That paradigm exists to keep We The People divided and at war. They ( Our elected officials ) are largely paid the representatives of Corporations and billionaires - Corporations that enjoy, under color of law, both the rights of an individual ( money = freedom of speech, and all Constitutional protections ) as well as the extended rights that neither you nor I can claim, as they are Corporations ( Can incorporate into an LLC, can move money offshore after jumping through two easy loops, etc ).

Speaking to the potential for social engineering or deliberate social and financial destabilization for specific effect? I believe that both of these concepts have previously been proven and are probably far more involved than any of us could even begin to imagine. Particularly when digital communications are added to the equation. Fifteen or twenty years ago Politicians had to send out stooges to do quick man on the street straw polls in order to get a vague idea of public opinion. Now? Now they simply have to check Google analytics or Twitters "trending" page. Actually, let me correct that. You or I could check those things. We can only guess at what Big Brother can do with game theory and instant and broad spectrum data samples.