Florida church sends $1,000 collection notice to single mother because she didn’t tithe

a reply to: dawnstar

Yea it certainly is wrong on both accounts. That I agree. It certainly doesn't sound very Christian to force your congregation to tithe (donate).

a reply to: Krazysh0t

*Bangs head against wall*

Why audit them in the first place?

Only because they're assholes, and that's not a valid reason to unleash a government agency on someone.

a reply to: NthOther

No, I think the situation in the OP is a VERY valid reason to unleash a government agency on them. They have a privilege to not pay taxes. It appears that they are abusing that privilege. Therefore, have the government check and find out. It's pretty simple really. Why you are against auditing the church is beyond me. Like I said, if they've done nothing wrong then the IRS will just pack up and go home once it is done. No harm, no foul.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: NthOther

No, I think the situation in the OP is a VERY valid reason to unleash a government agency on them. They have a privilege to not pay taxes. It appears that they are abusing that privilege. Therefore, have the government check and find out. It's pretty simple really. Why you are against auditing the church is beyond me. Like I said, if they've done nothing wrong then the IRS will just pack up and go home once it is done. No harm, no foul.

That sounds, disturbingly, like the excuses they use to trash the Fourth Amendment.

"If you've got nothing to hide, what are you worried about?"

There needs to be a legitimate reason. And there isn't in this case. They sent a collection letter (and expulsion warning) a to member who was delinquent in dues.

How is that "abuse"? In any legal sense of the term?

a reply to: Spider879

Yet nother prime example of those "charitable, helpful, GOD fearing" Chistians.
I thought they had a "mandate" from Jesus himself to help the poor and needy of the community.
Maybe someone has let this minor point slip their mind.

a reply to: NthOther

There IS a legit reason. They are billing the congregation for tithes and holding their ability to participate in church functions hostage to collect. There may not have even been an agreement signed by the members of the congregation to allow the church to even SEND the bill in the first place. These are ALL clear problems with what is going on that should warrant an investigation.

I mean, what would YOU consider to be a valid reason to investigate? When the church is caught COMPLETELY red handed breaking the law?

a reply to: NthOther

Excuse me for butting in, but I think you will find that any organisation which claims a link to the Christian faith, would find itself on shaky ground if it actually tithed or charged its congregation for membership. A Christian pastor of good intent would never tithe the congregation, but may ask for anonymous donations from both parishioners, and indeed passing believers in need of fellowship, but an actual fee?

Any organisation based on Christian ethics, which operates any similar scheme ought to be investigated, since claiming Christian ethics, but behaving in such a mercenary fashion speaks to the dishonesty of the administration of that organisation, and that dishonesty in my view is probative.

If this doesn't convince people not to go to that church, nothing will.

I still think it is funny. The belief that some cosmic Jewish Zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

If people lived by the message all religions have as their base, then we wouldn't be in trouble.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Based on what I've read, I don't think churches charging money violates the law. Churches have CHANGED! It's really amazing!

Carolina Church Charges Admission Fee for Sunday Service

Here's what the pastor says...

"We are in the business of saving souls, but we are also a business. Salaries and bills have to be paid. Saving souls ain’t cheap.”

Seems keeping a church "flashy" keeps it alive and is a sign of the times... Tithing and Money

The modern day organized church is kept in motion and built largely by money. Today in the church we have impressive buildings, big fancy signs, strategic locations, television ads, yellow page ads, radio spots, programs for every possible need, nurseries, salaried professionals, date night, pizza parties, youth group activities, ski trips to keep the kids happy, fancy suits, expensive audio systems, automatic retractable video screens, and million dollar family recreation centers. All of this takes massive amounts of cash. Yet without these things, the church membership would be drastically cut.
...
The modern day traditional church is mostly void of life, therefore, it has to prop itself up with hype and show in order to replace the life, in order to attract members, in order to exist. Under the New Covenant that we are in, Jesus does not require a tenth of our incomes, He requires ALL of it.

The people need "extras". We can't expect them to meet in a humble building while the preacher drives up in his Honda, wearing a regular suit and tie... The people need "flashy". They need to feel "special", like they're attending the best church. The churches need to compete with each other to keep their memberships up.

Ugh! Totally sickening! They have become corporations. And tax-exempt ones at that!

originally posted by: tinymind
a reply to: Spider879

Yet nother prime example of those "charitable, helpful, GOD fearing" Chistians.
I thought they had a "mandate" from Jesus himself to help the poor and needy of the community.
Maybe someone has let this minor point slip their mind.

Let us also not forget that Jesus said to pray in private. I don't think he would have approved of some of these million dollar mansions that preachers have nor their expensive lifestyle. Also, some churches look like they cost a small fortune!

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

All that looks illegal to me and a violation of their 501(c)3 status.

Exemption Requirements - 501(c)(3) Organizations

To be tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, an organization must be organized and operated exclusively for exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3), and none of its earnings may inure to any private shareholder or individual. In addition, it may not be an action organization, i.e., it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.

Organizations described in section 501(c)(3) are commonly referred to as charitable organizations. Organizations described in section 501(c)(3), other than testing for public safety organizations, are eligible to receive tax-deductible contributions in accordance with Code section 170.

The organization must not be organized or operated for the benefit of private interests, and no part of a section 501(c)(3) organization's net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual. If the organization engages in an excess benefit transaction with a person having substantial influence over the organization, an excise tax may be imposed on the person and any organization managers agreeing to the transaction.

Section 501(c)(3) organizations are restricted in how much political and legislative (lobbying) activities they may conduct. For a detailed discussion, see Political and Lobbying Activities. For more information about lobbying activities by charities, see the article Lobbying Issues; for more information about political activities of charities, see the FY-2002 CPE topic Election Year Issues.

originally posted by: NthOther

originally posted by: Vector99

Audit them.

For what? Because they're jerks?

Let's audit the labor unions then, too. Many (if not most) are tax-exempt, they charge their members dues, and they're jerks.

Same criteria met. Is it ok if we give them the shaft too?

Or just the Christians?

These people are not Christians. Christians do not require the members of their church to pay to be able to attend services they preach the word of God freely. This clearly shows this "church" is a for profit organization and they should be stripped of their tax free status.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I can't believe what I just read. This has to be the Great Apostasy.

a reply to: MOMof3

I believe you will find that the Great Apostasy began well back in history, with the thrice cursed Romans, and their bastardisation of the word of Jesus, their installation of the Papacy, and the use of Roman armies to spread the word of Christ by fire, while plundering lands of their resources at the same time.

This however, is an unfortunate echo of that mercenary attitude. Capitalism has no place in Gods house.

originally posted by: Cynic
Praise the Lord!!!!!
.

I just remembered the scene in Shawshank Redemption
near the end wen the warden notices hes gone.
made me laugh

a reply to: TrueBrit

That is all true. But, this is the first time that all can "see" at the same time what is happening.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
All that looks illegal to me and a violation of their 501(c)3 status.

Thanks for posting that. It would seem you're right that an investigation is in order. My thinking it was legal came from the sheer number of sources I've read that unashamedly "charge" their congregation for the perks and privileges of attending their church.

I'm about ready to change my mind on the whole "churches should have tax-exempt status" opinion...

Just another bastardization and separation of Scripture from Context.

Deuteronomy 26:

10.) And now, behold, I have brought the firstfruits of the land, which thou, O LORD, hast given me. And thou shalt set it before the LORD thy God, and worship before the LORD thy God:

11.) And thou shalt rejoice in every good thing which the LORD thy God hath given unto thee, and unto thine house, thou, and the Levite, and the stranger that is among you.


12.) When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled;

The point of the tithe was so that the Israelite would share Gods blessings with everyone around them.
In essence a codification of What God tells Abraham before the Nation of Israel was even officially formed here in

Genesis 12:

1.) Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2.) And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3.) And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

Notice that God the Point of the formation of Israel was so that God would have a People who could act as his Ambassadors to the rest of world by using them to bless the rest of the world?

This was the point of the tithe; so that Israel could feed the visiting widow, fatherless, and the stranger and the levite...(yes the priest got paid but it is was a full time job. LOL) who would visit Israel.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Spider879

Godless heathen bastards!

What sort of Christian charges for access to ministry? The hell with it. Worship in your own homes, in your own time, with those who do not believe that faith is something to be billed for. Disgusting. Outrageous, and disgusting.

it's called religious shame....if you do not donate, you are ungodly and not worthy. it happens in most religions