If a woman lies about being on the pill, is it rape by deception?

a reply to: ISawItFirst

Yep, you can get all the compensation you need from any perceived wrongs that you think happened to conceive the child, plus the government isn't there to screw everything up for everybody.

PS: Ah, it feels good trying on the ole Libertarian mantle again. Finally a conservative viewpoint I can agree with again!

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Layaly
weird u didn't leave her after the DNA test.. may I ask why

Ah, I'd gone through a 9 month pregnancy with her, I fell in love of course and she had moved in with me.
I didn't know the baby was mine but just in case it was I wanted things to be right.
Once he was born it didn't matter that he wasn't my blood, still a beautiful new life needing care and love. Wasn't his fault.

that needed some balls man.. nah seriously
pregos and hubbies and kiddies yummy
super answer
single daddies super but too

If she was already pregnant, then wouldn't that be considered a form of birth control?
So she didn't lie about anything. You didn't get her pregnant. And you chose to accept responsibility after finding out that you were not the father. In your circumstance, you don't have a leg to stand on.




a reply to: grainofsand

originally posted by: grainofsand
So again you attach blame to somebody trusting another person who lies?

I attach RESPONSIBILITY to someone who has sex, not blame. I believe we are all responsible for OUR actions (not the actions of others). If you don't get that, I can't explain it any clearer, especially when you insist on putting words in my mouth.

Look, I was actually raped. I was not the one who lied, tricked or deceived, nor was I the one who used force to violate another human being. That's all on him. But I WAS responsible for placing myself in a position where it was easy for him to rape me. I was gullible, I trusted, and I learned. It's how I work. If it's not how you work, that's fine. But at this point, it seems you just want to argue...

If you think you're a completely innocent victim of this woman, and have NO responsibility for what happened, that's OK by me.

a reply to: Woodcarver

Oh, how many times?!
The issue of the OP was consent for sex agreed solely after a direct lie about contraception.
Julian Assange is wanted in Sweden for that very same crime, the woman refused consent unless he used a condom, he tricked her (allegedly) and didn't put one on.
The concept is the same.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

That's cool, you take blame and responsibility for dishonesty or nasty stuff of others if you like, I won't.

originally posted by: grainofsand
That's cool, you take blame and responsibility for dishonesty or nasty stuff of others if you like, I won't.

Who's the liar now?

originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: grainofsand

CPS legal guidelines Rape and Sexual Offences: Chapter 3: Consent

Not had a chance to interpret it fully but looks as if it sheds some light.

Good find
I've had a skim through and it appears that the Crown Prosecution Service agrees that consent for sex obtained through deception is a crime:

Section 74 has recently been considered by the High Court and the Court of Appeal in a series of cases where ostensible consent in relation to sexual offences was considered not to be true consent, either because a condition upon which consent was given was not complied with or because of a material deception

a reply to: grainofsand

I think the problem is that you shared your story, and then asked for advice on a dif set of circumstaces. People are responding to both.

In your general scenario, both parties are equally responsible. Even if the girl lied about being on BC. BC is a preventative and not a 100% guarantee. Some people lie to have sex. Men and women. You should always treat every sexual encounter as a chance to make a child Your part is to be just as responsible to wear a condom. If the man wears a condom and the woman is on birth control, there is still a chance she could get pregnant.

As far as the girl lying, people do that all the time.

If a guy tells a girl, he has a million dollars in the bank and the girl has sex with him because she feels like he will be a financially stable mate, then finds out later that he lied, should he go to jail?

Dbl

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

What are you on about now?
You've said your piece enough times now, I consented to sex because I was directly lied to and you think I should hold some responsibility because someone lied to me.
I disagree, what more is there to say.

If someone lies to me and I believe them then I hold them solely at fault, you don't, fine, why keep on, are you just here to troll or something?

a reply to: Woodcarver

Nope, you clearly misread the OP.
I consented to sex based solely on a lie.
Had the girl told the truth I would not have consented to sex. That is the sole issue, not how reliable various contraceptives are or not.
Stick to the premise eh.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

What are you on about now?
You've said your piece enough times now, I consented to sex because I was directly lied to and you think I should hold some responsibility because someone lied to me.
I disagree, what more is there to say.

If someone lies to me and I believe them then I hold them solely at fault, you don't, fine, why keep on, are you just here to troll or something?

But that is not what happened to you. She did not lie.

a reply to: grainofsand

this is crazy dude
if we all knew eachother
laughing at the replies to u sorry bro
what a kick in a face

originally posted by: grainofsand
you think I should hold some responsibility because someone lied to me.

I never said that. You hold NO responsibility for them lying. That's totally on them. You hold responsibility for having sex, that's all. That's what I've said in every post. Yet you continue to lie about what I've said. Fortunately, my words are there for others to read.

I'm really saddened by our exchange here. We've had productive discussions in the past and I don't know if that's possible anymore. I'll leave you to your thread.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

What are you on about now?
You've said your piece enough times now, I consented to sex because I was directly lied to and you think I should hold some responsibility because someone lied to me.
I disagree, what more is there to say.

If someone lies to me and I believe them then I hold them solely at fault, you don't, fine, why keep on, are you just here to troll or something?

But that is not what happened to you. She did not lie.

Yes she did, a straight up in the face lie.
Did you not read any of the OP?

a reply to: Layaly

Haha, I expected it when I made the decision to post the thread.
It's entertainment at the very least.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
You hold responsibility for having sex

Yes, and my decision to consent to sex was based solely on lies by the girl concerned.
The lie was the responsibility of her alone, not me.

a reply to: grainofsand

She said she was on BC. She was pregnant. That is prob the best BC ever. So i would not consider that a lie. She did not get pregnant by you. So it would be hard to show how she somehow decieved you. When you found out the child wasn't yours, you chose to take care of the child anyway. A judge would take all of these details into consideration.

I don't consider her telling you that she was on BC a lie and she did not get pregnant by you.

a reply to: Woodcarver

I think that the Op was to discuss the social and moral implications in general and the Op's story was used as an example only.