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If a woman lies about being on the pill, is it rape by deception?

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posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:09 AM
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a reply to: grainofsand

If all it takes to get you into bed with someone you don't know without a condom on is a lie, then you deserve anything you get. And consider your self lucky you didn't get syphilis. Try a little fact checking before you take chances with irreparable consequences. But nothing happened to you except by your own choices. I say man up.

I have posted a scenario about a guy lying to girl about having money to get sex. Should that guy be considered a criminal? Or should she have checked some facts.

Has anyone ever told you that you should get to know a person before you have sex with them? This is why. It is good advice.





edit on 14-7-2015 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-7-2015 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-7-2015 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:10 AM
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a reply to: AboveBoard

Just seen your reply, thank you for the reasoned points you made



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:11 AM
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a reply to: Layaly
ya I tried to change that a couple times couldn't find the option,..

I put it up during the last economic crash ... in response to the politicians griping



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:12 AM
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a reply to: Woodcarver

Specially when the "consequences can have lifetime repercussions"



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:12 AM
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a reply to: Woodcarver

I didn't make the case that it should be a crime, I asked a question.
Are you just looking for stuff to argue about?
I was lied and I believed the liar, yes foolish, but the only person who is in the wrong is the one who lied. Which bit of that do you disagree with? lol



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:14 AM
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a reply to: EvillerBob

Haha, sorry man, struggling to keep up with this fast flowing emotive thread!



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:16 AM
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a reply to: AboveBoard

The post was meant as to the general reactions to many involved in the thread.

If the OP was from a female perspective I personally think that more members would have agreed and showed sympathy.

Just my opinion though.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:17 AM
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You didnt get her pregnant!!

How did she wrong you?


a reply to: grainofsand



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:18 AM
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originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: nonspecific

Interesting as a mother I have learned that is always the younger and no so very careful the ones that falls in the mistakes of not been able to control their sexual urges and yes the more experience also falls for it too is not exceptions.

Like I say, how can you trust anybody when you are having "casual sex", that will be foolish.



I suppose that would come down to your definition of casual sex.

As a mother how would you feel if your son was in a relationship with a girl and she told him she was taking birth control and that was a lie.

If she fell pregnant and this changed the course of his whole life whould you place the blame on him or her?

And saying both of them is not an aceptable answer in the age we live in.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:19 AM
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a reply to: nonspecific

Heck I have never been after any sympathy, just a mature debate about using deception to obtain consent for sex.
It does appear that the general consensus is if someone is lied to then they are equally at fault.
Do you think that applies with financial fraud as well, or just sex?



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:20 AM
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originally posted by: Woodcarver

Ok on those specific grounds, for it to be a crime, you would have to show how that lie hurt/damaged/or took money from you.

You didn't get her pregnant. You both found out at the same time that the child was not yours. You decided to take care of the child.

No judge will take sides with that set of circumstances. Niether will I. You are both equally complicit. Since you decided to take responsibility for the child seven years ago i would also make you pay child support in the event of divorce or separation. Your local judge may not.


I'm sorry, but where on earth did you pull up this load of old tosh? Absolutely incorrect from start to finish and not only conflates a few different elements of law that do not belong together, but still manages to get those bits of law wrong.

There's law and caselaw that supports OP (assuming OP could prove the requirement/lie issues) and a jury would be perfectly entitled to return a verdict of guilty if they believed the facts were as outlined in the original post.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:20 AM
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originally posted by: Woodcarver
You didnt get her pregnant!!

How did she wrong you?


a reply to: grainofsand

She lied to me to obtain my consent for sex. Had she told me the truth I would not have consented.
Which bit of that are you struggling to understand?



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:21 AM
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a reply to: grainofsand

Theres plenty of "horror" stories about men who claimed to be airline pilots or such like to gain sexual advantage.

The really interesting one is the undercover policeman who infiltrated an activist group and entered into a sexual relationship with one of the female members to gain creedance.

Now that's somthing I do not think anyone can agree is not a form of rape.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:22 AM
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a reply to: nonspecific

Ok. One more time.

A guy at a party meets a girl and tells her that he's got a million dollars in the bank. She thinks that this will make him a suitable and stable mate, and decides to sleep with him with no condom. She gets pregnant only to find out he lied about the money. She stays with him for seven years and then gets pissed. She then uses that earlier lie as her reason for wanting to leave.

At this point. Who cares about that lie?



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:22 AM
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Let's say a women concents to sex because the man has a condom.
Yet, the man pierced the condom and then the women gets pregnant.

People would be screaming : RAPE RAPE, RAPE BY DECEPTION!!

But the OP is a male, so who cares anyway?

The double standards of society and court, the man suffered deception, while the women suffered rape.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:23 AM
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a reply to: nonspecific

I agree. That is something like rape.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:24 AM
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a reply to: Woodcarver

I refuse to discuss this with you as your condescending attitude prevents me from remaining civil.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:25 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: ketsuko

Behave, my consent was solely on the use of contraceptives. She lied.
Had she told the truth I would not have consented.
The reliability of the particular contraception is irrelevant, my consent was based on her statement that she was using a contraceptive. It was deception.


It may have been deception, but the fact remains, if you were only willing to be with her if she was using contraception, then you didn't want to be there if a pregnancy resulted. And if is a fact that most people are not willing to acknowledge that no contraception is 100%. Therefore, the chance of pregnancy is always there, even if you yourself had bought and used the condom to be sure.

So if you were only willing to have sex with her IF there was no chance of pregnancy, why were you willing to risk it at all?

I know in today's society, we have trained ourselves to divorce sex and pregnancy, but the dirty little secret is that you still can't. There is no method that truly does with 100% certainty. So don't consent to be with someone you can't deal with all the potential consequences with.

I agree with this...except the fact that she was already pregnant, which I would think is the only 100 % contraception. That little fact throws a wrench in OP argument.



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:26 AM
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a reply to: Woodcarver

Oh stop making things up now, we split after 7 years for other reasons.
I'm not even pissed off about it, my story was just relevant to the links I posted, consent for sex was obtained through deception.
Any example of deception to obtain consent for sex is obviously morally wrong, and even criminal in some circumstances.
What exactly are you disagreeing about with my story?



posted on Jul, 14 2015 @ 10:29 AM
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originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Woodcarver
You didnt get her pregnant!!

How did she wrong you?


a reply to: grainofsand

She lied to me to obtain my consent for sex. Had she told me the truth I would not have consented.
Which bit of that are you struggling to understand?
The part where this hurt you in any way. It seems like you want out of this relationship or you want out of the responsibility for the child, and you're trying to use a percieved lie to get some advantage. If she was pregnant, then she didn't lie. If you knew the child wasn't yours and still decided to raise them as your own, ghen you are responsible. There was no lie, and def no rape.



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