Greece votes 'no' to EU bail out - GREXIT?

a reply to: xuenchen

Russia does a lot of trade with Greece.

No. As required by the sanctions from EU Greece was forced to impose sanctions too.

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: xuenchen

Russia does a lot of trade with Greece.

No. As required by the sanctions from EU Greece was forced to impose sanctions too.

How has that affected the economies of both countries?

originally posted by: SubTruth

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: SubTruth
a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Oh.....Crap this could be bad for the worlds economies........This is bigger than any bank failure. I am not sure if they made the right choice or not.

Not really they make up only 2% of the EU economy.

They are insignificant really. Its only bad if Italy and Spain follow.

Economy size is a factor I agree........It matters how much of the debt can not be handled by the other countries banks. Also the rise of nationalism is always a risk in Europe.



But I do agree with your points.........Especially about Italy and Spain.

Germany holds most the debt and they have been prepareing for awhile.
I know someone who works for a German bank, they are prepared for a Greek, Italy and spain default.
These bailouts are just a stop gap to bleed as money money outnof greece before the enevitable.

Anyway screw Germany, whats bad for them good for the UK as people will just move there money to London as the pounds is now the most stable currency out of the Yen, Euro and even doller.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: Soloprotocol

Yes tax evasions happens in all countries to different degrees.

However Britain in not running to The European Central Bank for loans, is it?

Greece is.

No, It's running to us, our children and grandchildren to pay back the mess the Banking system it allowed left us in....what planet you been on these past 7 years. £1.4 trillion in debt...That's TRILLION.

a reply to: xuenchen

Pretty bad for both. Putin may talk as much as he want, but the reality is that Russia can not substitute Germany as a donor for big pensions. Russian people don't want to subsidize Greece and be hated after 5 years like Greece is hating Germany now
They would like to make deals with Greece and all Europe, but no hand-outs like Greece getting accustomed in the last 20 years.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Dr1Akula

Let me see if I understand, the vast majority of Greek politicians are corrupt according to you, but the financial crisis is not the Greek's fault.

Whose fault is it that their politicians are corrupt, Zimbabwe's?

Duh Obama! Blame obama

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

It was stupid of government to hold this plebiscit without admitting the truth what it really means. They said that NO means the end od austerity and that banks will open on Tuesday. Which is a lie. With NO, ECB will cut it's emergency lifeline and Greek banks will default one after another. Money will be "confiscated" and Greece will be in a depression. With banks closed their imports/exports are on hold and Greece will need not money, but food and medicine in a matter of weels. Tsipras lied to the people and destroyed their future.

a reply to: kitzik

Russia will get bases and encourage the Russians to holiday throughout the Greek Islands. It's a win win for Greece and Russia.

Of course both sides are corrupt, but the Greeks voted in a Marxist and he has more in common with Russia. They've also seen what the U.S can do to so called allies, they've seen what has happened in Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya.

How much does the E.U and NATO need Greece? Very much as a strategic point. Russia have no bases in the Mediterranean currently, although I think Cyprus has agreed to a airbase as a result of the bailout they gave to Cyprus, on behalf of the Russian Nationals living in Cyprus, who stood to be hit hard.

It's all about social justice, the people of Greece deserve neither outcome really, yet here they are, facing an uncertain future.

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
Russia have no bases in the Mediterranean currently...

They lease the base in Tartus.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: Dr1Akula

From one of your own publications.

The shadow economy is a multifunctional economic and social phenomenon with serious consequences in many aspects of the everyday life (economic, political, social, etc.)
excellence.minedu.gov.gr...

I never denied corruption exists in Greece , I've also stated it in my previous posts
But generalization should be answered with generalization...imo

The average Joe ( as khnum said above) is the real victim, and the ones responsible will always gain from the misery they inflected him with!

Greek private banks (owned by foreign groups), and some other scums, profited massively since 2011,

the year when the average Joe was enforced to get them bailout with these unreasonably huge loans, without being asked!

The creditors and specifically Merkel said their austerity law passing deals as a deposit for for the above loans were the paradise for Greece all this in 2011.
No Greek (even the majority of the politicians) didn't know sh!t that there was a debt prior 2011,
Just like what you think, now about your country, and believe your any benefits come from your own work and taxes!

Fact; during this paradise 10000 Greeks committed suicide, thousands of business bankrupted,
The taxes were so harsh and the income so low that the poor percentage went to new unseen highs
The Healthcare is a thirdworld country healthcare with no necessary medical equipment
and Education is the worst In Europe with tremendous limitations.
Unemployment is almost 1/2 among young people. And the aged ones are given copycat 2nd class cheap and less effective medicines. despite working hard, all their lives and paying huge taxes for their retirement
All this while the already rich few Private organizations became richer

This was the creditors paradise!

And NO was the peoples answer today!

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Russia will get bases and encourage the Russians to holiday throughout the Greek Islands. It's a win win for Greece and Russia.

This is too risky. Russia probably want to have bases in Greece, but this will lead to direct confrontation with Nato. Another point is that bases in Mediterranean are useless if Turkey closing the straits, so overall it is much more complex than you think. Russian economy is weak, Greece is in Nato, Turkey is in Nato.

Of course both sides are corrupt, but the Greeks voted in a Marxist and he has more in common with Russia.

Putin is not Marxist lol. He is a reincarnation of 19-th century Russian Empire imperialism ( albeit in a much weaker starting point)

a reply to: baburak

I guess they are banking on EU loans to ensure services are maintained. I wouldn't bet on those loans being free of conditions.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Yes, I totally forgot about the naval base in Syria. But to have another Naval base the opposite side of the Med, will increase their standing in the area.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

An economy is not capable of abstract emotions.

Yes, I know Economy is a monster, but it is a manmade monster!

And also a very valuable tool at the hand of a few...

Mayer Amschel Rothschild:

Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws!

Thats' exactly what happens in Greece right now...

The creditors want to make the laws of Greece, with people having no democratic rights in their own country.
And I ask you again now do you think this is morally justifiable?

The creditors have already admitted that the debt is unsustainable, And there is no way to be paid back....
So what's the reason for all the above? controlling a country? dictate a whole Nation? Occupation? what?

originally posted by: Dr1Akula
The creditors want to make the laws of Greece, with people having no democratic rights in their own country.
And I ask you again now do you think this is morally justifiable?

It would appear that no one forced them to accept any new laws unless we all just missed something.

So what's the reason for all the above? controlling a country? dictate a whole Nation? Occupation? what?

Why embellish? The answer is much simpler, the creditors want their money.

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

I think Russia together with China is preparing gambit in Nicaragua. Posturing in a closed sea as Mediterranean is useless unless you indeed going to war in that region.

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Russia will get bases and encourage the Russians to holiday throughout the Greek Islands. It's a win win for Greece and Russia.

This is too risky. Russia probably want to have bases in Greece, but this will lead to direct confrontation with Nato. Another point is that bases in Mediterranean are useless if Turkey closing the straits, so overall it is much more complex than you think. Russian economy is weak, Greece is in Nato, Turkey is in Nato.

Of course both sides are corrupt, but the Greeks voted in a Marxist and he has more in common with Russia.

Putin is not Marxist lol. He is a reincarnation of 19-th century Russian Empire imperialism ( albeit in a much weaker starting point)

Of course it's risky, they're probably hoping that the E.U also realise this and come up with an acceptable solution. If it doesn't then Russia will help them out.

Putin believes in the reformation of the USSR, he stated this when he first came on the political scene.

Barclays are suggesting GREXIT as the most likely scenario for Greece.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Barclays: Grexit now likely
Analysts at Barclays now see a Greek exit as their base case scenario. They say the actions of the ECB are now crucial in the coming weeks but expect July 20 to be the day liquidity is cut off and the banks on the verge of collapse. In such a scenario and without a new bail-out, the government will have to resort to IOUs and new Drachmas to recapitalise the banking system.
From Barclays tonight:
"How long Greece can stay in the euro without a financial assistance programme will depend on the ECB’s willingness to continue to provide liquidity to its banking sector and the consequence of a default on the bonds held by the ECB in its SMP portfolio on 20 July. If there is no agreement on a programme, the ECB will shut down ELA no later than 20 July. Banks will then not only be illiquid but would then turn insolvent. As a result, the lack of financing would trigger a collapse of the Greek economy. This situation could not last more than a few days, beyond which the Greek government would have to decide to take back the control over the central bank of Greece and force it to provide liquidity support to Greek banks, therefore printing de facto another currency. This would clearly be a violation of the Treaty and would certainly put Greece outside the monetary union."

Tsipras: referendum result shows 'democracy won't be blackmailed'
Alexis Tsipras has also now spoken. He says he will convene a meeting of political party leaders on Monday morning. He says the debt issue will now be on the negotiating table but that the vote does not mean a break with Europe.
"With the difficult circumstances prevailing today you made a very brave choice.
"I'm fully aware the mandate you gave me is not one of a rupture with Europe but a mandate to strengthen our negotiating position to seek a viable solution."
"This is not a mandate of rupture with Europe, but a mandate that bolsters our negotiating strength to achieve a viable deal."

ECB 'to keep reduced lifeline for Greek banks'
European Central Bank policy setters are likely to maintain emergency funding for Greek banks at its current restricted level, people familiar with the matter have told Reuters, following Greece's rejection in a referendum of bailout conditions.
Such a move would give Greek banks little time before they use up all of the roughly 89 billion euros of funding available and ensure that they remain closed for at least the coming days.
But it would avoid the drastic option of withdrawing existing support, a measure that would trigger their immediate collapse.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth
This is what happens when you run out of other peoples money.

originally posted by: SubTruth
a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Oh.....Crap this could be bad for the worlds economies........This is bigger than any bank failure. I am not sure if they made the right choice or not.

If the entire global economy is dependent on debt and interest payments from financially unstable countries, then the fundamental problem isn't with Greece and these other countries.

Remember that nearly of all of this money isn't real world money, but electronic currency no different from bitcoins.
Greece needs 5 billion Euros? No problem, Europe central banks create 5 billion electronic Euros, tranfers them across and expect interest payment of 500 million Euros month. But the Greek government can't collect that amount of tax from international investors and other wealthy tax dodgers.

Rather than imposing financial penalties for Greece not being able to make payments, we should be looking at ways to help them make or collect the money.