Greece votes 'no' to EU bail out - GREXIT?

Its time for someone to jump ship. Say no to all bankers, shove it bankers!!!!!! Your reign of terror on this earth is over. This time do it right, Greece, be the wayshowers. Don't do money, introduce Venus System, everyone has homes, and abundance, and disclose the free and clean energy, whatever you want to call it. Time to show the world that its been run by monsters. And tell Russia to do the same.

Anything else is a crime against all souls anyway, so its time to come clean with the people. They don't need this criminal system, in fact to everyone on earth being abused by these thugs, IOU's are mounting.

a reply to: baburak

Oh no, no. You misunderstood me. Russia doesn't give two flips about the Euro and will not provide even a single note to Greece to payback the EU. That ship is effectively out of the harbor and won't be seen again. What I'm talking about is Russia will be the country that offers the "new" Greece what they need to support themselves under the condition that they do 3 things:
1. Leave the EU and abandon the Euro
2. Guarantee double middle fingers to existing creditors (Can the EU banks absorb a 320 Billion Euro write-off?)
3. Either leave NATO or join Turkey as a Russia-friendly voice in NATO (along with a solid source of insider information.)

There will likely be a few other conditions attached such as Russian use of Greek military bases, Import tariffs on goods from nations other than Russia and Turkey, and probably even consideration for Greece joining BRICS.

This is Soviet Union 101 happening here and the media's denial of seeing it that way is pretty telling of how little control over it the West has. Throughout the Cold War, the Kremlin swooped in and collected small, broke nations that had been screwed by Western economic policy and predatory international banking practices. They're replaying that right now and do NOT be shocked if Greece is simply the start of it all. I'd expect Spain and Italy to be in play within the next 5 years.

What you are not being told about Greece.

The Greeks were mislead by the previous PM's and Fiance Ministers not to mention the EU and the rest of these predatory institutions.They decided to fight back and now the Euroarchs don't know what to do.

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
Greece voted 60% no to EU bailout.

No it didn't. It voted on the conditions attached to the current bailout. This is a warping of the situation to suit the right wing (bankers) agenda.

Greece will be leaving the EU according to the EU.

That is the fear tactic the EU bankers (pro austerity) have been using all along. The people of Greece have stuck two fingers up at the EU and the IMF for the continual insistence that the poorest in society take the rap for the economic problems Greece has. There are 3 causes :

1. Germany's blind (on purpose) acceptance of the Greek financial situation prior to joining the Euro. This suited Germany despite the fact Greece's economy was in no state to join. Fault : German bankers.
2. Corruption in Greece is very bad. This is something that the Greeks have to sort out themselves. However, have you noticed that this does not get mentioned as a condition. Hmmm I wonder why? Perhaps becasue the beneficiaries of the corruption are the same group of rich people as the bankers !!!
3. Tax evasion, same as 2. Note here, however, that the bankers insisted on tax increases. Well why not !!! it's the poorest in Greece (like all countries) that pay their taxes and it's the rich that avoid them.

Reality check. This is about ideology and preservation of a system that favours the rich getting richer. God forbid the Greeks get out the hole without implementing austerity, shock horror!. God forbid the Greeks start to get the people who caused the problem to start paying ie the rich corrupt tax evaders.

The last thing the EU and IMF want is for people to see that austerity does not work and that there is an alternate way of the economic holes that THEY the bankers created in 2007-2008.

The optimist in me sees that people are waking up here and there. The pessimist in me sees idiots (here in the UK) failing to blame bankers for the crisis in 2007 but the government at the time.

Analysts suggest GREXIT above 50%, and reports of it being at 75%.

www.cnbc.com...

The surprise resignation of Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis and rising bets on a 'Grexit' will likely keep sentiment shaky, despite Athens denying that the 'no' vote could lead to an exit from the euro zone.

The increased probability of a 'Grexit' has moved above 50 percent for the first time and that could see a risk-off mood prevail, according to ING.

Meanwhile, Wolfgang Piccoli, managing director at Teneo Intelligence, told CNBC that the likelihood of a 'Grexit' now stands at 75 percent, from 15 percent previously.

finance.yahoo.com...

BRUSSELS/BERLIN (Reuters) - France and Germany called for an emergency summit of euro zone leaders to discuss Greece's stunning referendum vote on Sunday to reject bailout terms, as calls mounted in Berlin to cut Athens loose from Europe's common currency.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel's deputy said Athens had wrecked any hope of compromise with its euro zone partners by overwhelmingly rejecting further austerity.

Merkel and French President Francois Hollande conferred by telephone and will meet in Paris on Monday afternoon to seek a joint response. Responding to their call, European Council President Donald Tusk announced that euro zone leaders would meet in Brussels on Tuesday evening (1600 GMT).

German Vice-Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel, leader of Merkel's centre-left Social Democratic junior coalition partner, said it was hard to conceive of fresh negotiations on lending more billions to Athens after Greeks voted against more austerity.

Leftist Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras had "torn down the last bridges on which Greece and Europe could have moved towards a compromise," Gabriel told the Tagesspiegel daily.

His comments reflected a mounting public demand in the most powerful EU country, which is also Greece's biggest creditor, to eject Athens from the 19-nation currency area, of which membership was intended to be irreversible.

a reply to: yorkshirelad

Your right the Greek government created a lot of the problems with corruption. And fault also belongs to the EU for continually kicking this can down the road. The EU has been footing the bills for Greece since 2010. But to get these funds Greece had to agree to a draconian austerity program from German and French bankers. Who later unloaded this debt to the Greek, German and French governments leaving them holding billions in bad debt.

Now people hear think this is some how Greece rejecting the EU it's not its the rejection of there plan. This rejection will have huge effects on Chinese and European markets. Chinese are already having to inject currency into their market to starve off the damage with more to follow. The UK has plans in place but several European countries do not.

Now slut here seem to be under the misguided impression that these governments can simply diss miss the debt they cant. The money that people think the Greeks can do without goes into paying for things from other countries. Meaning any trading partner of Greece won't get paid. This is why Chinese market is on the hook for example. This will send their books into the red.

This situation isn't just Greece screwing bankers it's Greece destroying any business they work with. Any company that imports Chinese parts or products. Any business that deals with any other in the EU will not be paid. This also shuts down their banks meaning people in Greece have no access to any money. It would take months to change over and set up new banks meaning whatever Greeks have on there Pocket is all they will have for a while possibly months.

There is only one option the Greeks know it they have to work out a plan quickly everyone can agree with. All this they are screwing the bankers just isn't true they got their money and out the game.

I am asking myself if it was part of the "deal", that Varoufakis had to leave?
The other finance ministers of the EU don´t want to talk with people that know how the game is played(or if someone is playing not on their side), so Varoufakis had to leave, thats what i think.
Now maybe the EUbots get again what they want, maybe a finacialrobot not in jeans, not that big and physically powerfull, and not with Varoufakis knowledge and resistance.
Greece will not leave the EU, and the US/NATO is thankfull for that
Better: Thats the reason why they never will leave, "EUlites" and warmongers never will let them go, even if they want.

And if you see what the MSM is saying, i`m talking about the MSM in germany, then you can clearly see that the decision of the greece people was the right one.
Why?
Who really owns and the dictates the MSM? Same people that make big money from destroying other nations!
And if those MSM now tell us that this is the end of the world and of all times for greece, guess what?
In Reality now the banksters, the rich have problems, problems with making money as before.
Example Germany:
The MSM is telling the "not-able-to-think-for-themselves-people" the whole time that the german taxpayers could lose around 90 billions Euro with a Grexit. But nobody tells this parrots that germany made huge profits, last i read was around 370 billion Euros, with interests payed by greece. Interests for the money they tell us we pay for saving greece. Nobody tells this parrots that not greece(the people) is saved, but banksters, the rich and powerfull, the jobs of the "EUlites". And those parrots over here are parroting like "Weekend-Schäubles", talking like the Goldman Sachs Management, likeIWF/ECB/EUrocrats, like something like this never ever could happen to germany too. To the people of germany, sure not to the rich and powerfull.
But thats a special german problem, i guess.
Example:
If someone has a job, even it is just a 1Euro-"Job", he feels like he is something special, and talks bad about unemployed people the whole time, because he feels as he is something better, and that his wonderfull "job" would be for life.
It seems most of us have a "something like this can never happen to me" mentality, and that most of us are blinded by propaganda, blind to see the real reasons for whats going on in the world.
We live in our "Happy-Matrix" not realizing that we are everything but happy, but hey, then we just act as we are happy, and untouchable, and better than all others in the world.
When i see the majority of my fellow citizens(same people that vote for robots like Merkel again and again, if one could trust any elections results nowadays...), those people parroting the Springer-MSM-BS like the BILD "newspapers" anti-greece propaganda(like: ALL greece people are just lazy and tax dodgers), i need to vomit!
I am sorry for the majority of my fellow citizens, but forgive them because they are programmed and don´t know about it.

Hellas Greece, Bella Ciao like you sung yesterday, show the world that there is another way than the way that the rich and powerfull need to get more rich and powerfull!!!
(Even when i think that those rich and powerfull are that rich and powerfull so that greece never will recover, but let´s hope all the best!)

I am curious where Varoufakis will pop up next, if it's outside of the EU, we all know it will go ugly fast in Greece. He resigned in the light of the "no" vote, Syriza "won" the referendum and the man who should negotiate now with the rest of the EU resigns from office...

makes you wonder why.

@Beobachter:
Don't know your friends, but most of my friends/family and coworkers here are bright enought to see through the Bild/Spiegel propaganda crap.

The following is part of another thread about the crisis in Greece but I thought I'd post it here as well:

Not many know the situation in Greece and how did this country end up with such a huge debt. I've been to Greece many times and I have lots of friends there. Until the moment the debt issue came to surface, no one had any idea of what was going on. For decades greek people have lived a nice life, paying little to no taxes at all, get paid excessively by the government, receiving a 13 and even a 14 pay as bonus (for doing nothing), paid vacations (a month)... On top of that this country has (had) the most inflated bureaucratic system I ever seen in my life. So many government positions who did nothing but milk the system and the budget. And lets not forget something even more crucial in a capitalistic system, this country produces nothing of importance. Their main income was and still is tourism. They don't have a heavy industry, mining or oil. All they have is some very light industry like manufacturing and the rest is olives, cheese and olive oil. And yet this people lived like kings, never paid taxes, relied a lot on government subsidies, exaggerated salaries, abuses with public funding and a total lack of respect for the economical system.

At this point I ask, why should Greece be treated any different from other countries who got loans? Whose fault it is that this country finds it self in over 300 billion euros in debts? They have been milking Europe for decades and living at the other europian countries expenses for decades. And now they say we don't pay because we have no money and people can't take anymore measures (the result of this very people abusing the system, stealing in unpaid taxes and avoiding obligations that keep a country's economy healthy). This is criminal, not what EU is trying to do. I do feel sorry for the people in Greece and I can imagine what kind of hardship they're going through. But blaming Europe and especially Germany for what is clearly a fault of a parasitic government and most of all of a parasitic mentality, is not the solution.

This are my two cents in the matter.

originally posted by: Telos
The following is part of another thread about the crisis in Greece but I thought I'd post it here as well:

Not many know the situation in Greece and how did this country end up with such a huge debt. I've been to Greece many times and I have lots of friends there. Until the moment the debt issue came to surface, no one had any idea of what was going on. For decades greek people have lived a nice life, paying little to no taxes at all, get paid excessively by the government, receiving a 13 and even a 14 pay as bonus (for doing nothing), paid vacations (a month)... On top of that this country has (had) the most inflated bureaucratic system I ever seen in my life. So many government positions who did nothing but milk the system and the budget. And lets not forget something even more crucial in a capitalistic system, this country produces nothing of importance. Their main income was and still is tourism. They don't have a heavy industry, mining or oil. All they have is some very light industry like manufacturing and the rest is olives, cheese and olive oil. And yet this people lived like kings, never paid taxes, relied a lot on government subsidies, exaggerated salaries, abuses with public funding and a total lack of respect for the economical system.

At this point I ask, why should Greece be treated any different from other countries who got loans? Whose fault it is that this country finds it self in over 300 billion euros in debts? They have been milking Europe for decades and living at the other europian countries expenses for decades. And now they say we don't pay because we have no money and people can't take anymore measures (the result of this very people abusing the system, stealing in unpaid taxes and avoiding obligations that keep a country's economy healthy). This is criminal, not what EU is trying to do. I do feel sorry for the people in Greece and I can imagine what kind of hardship they're going through. But blaming Europe and especially Germany for what is clearly a fault of a parasitic government and most of all of a parasitic mentality, is not the solution.

This are my two cents in the matter.

You have pretty much summed up the situation entirely accurately. One item to add would be that apparently, Greece has been borrowing and spending huge sums on their Defense forces, which I find rather odd.

One miscalculation the Greek Government may have made, according to this a.m.'s news reports is that the original loan package agreement has essentially expired. As a result a new loan package must be negotiated and then approved by the Parliamentary bodies of the 19 EU nations. That will take months, not the "days" that Tsipras, the Greek PM has promised the Greek people. Without an agreement in place, the ECB, (Central Bank) can't make cash infusions into the Greek banks and they will be out of any cash money whatsoever by Wednesday morning.

What does all that mean? It means that unless the EU zone can come up with a method of some temporary emergency cash infusion into Greece for the next 90 to 120 days, the length of time for the Parliaments of Europe to approve a new Loan package, the Greek people will be broke within a month, the banks won't be able to get cash to grease the wheels of daily business, the Greek businesses will have to close because, for example, the local gas station won't have the cash to pay for the next shipment of fuel, (all of which is imported), and essentially, the lights will go out......everywhere in Greece.

Oddly enough, the same thing is happening in Puerto Rico, but in slow motion and the expected result there is that something like 2/3 of the population is expected to leave the island and move over to the US.

So....by way of the Greek crisis, I guess we can expect to see the population of Greece added to the huge migration out of distressed parts of Africa and the middle east into Europe, the UK and the US.

Who''s next? Spain, Portugal, Italy? Are these mass migrations of economic and war refugees going to overwhelm the entire civilized world and its economic systems?

Maybe it's good that this happens both ways those who can't or want stay in the EU .
Building one European government can't happen without a referendum and just stick it down the throats of every citizen who lives in it as they did with the euro. .

Damn prizes doubled with a year and salaries stayed the same. .. well we all know who got rich from all this...

Oh wow! Does anyone else find it humorous an imaginary way to pay for things is a big deal?

Greece is a whole country, certainly if any real leaders actually led, it should be just fine; maybe start a legitimate currency actually printed by the country's OWN treasury.

They could be this Century's America, hopefully keeping Money Changers out a little longer than we did.

originally posted by: DerBeobachter
a reply to: theabsolutetruth

Hellas, Greece, this is what democracy looks like

They chose a hard time now but with a chance for recovery later.
Better than to be an EU and bankstersslave forever!

The normal(not the rich) greece people were destroyed by the rich, the banksters, the EU, now they decided to try something new, they have nothing more to lose anyway.

I wish that they can show other nations like Spain or Portugal that this was the right decision, but i am afraid that the banksters, the EU, the rich and powerfull will now do whatever they can so that greece can´t recover, whatever they will do, and even if everything is right what they do.
So that Greece can´t be an example for other EU-states, how right it is to free yourself from slavery.

To the brave greece people, i wish you all the best!!!

I can only laugh at such funny comments. People who think that greece made the right decision are suffering from one of two things:
A) Stupidity
B) Rooting for the underdog

I mean, you're trusting the decision making skills of a people who have been bankrupt like 6 times in the last 200 years. They've got systemic idiocy running rampant through their systems. It is alive and well as evidenced by their voting in a socialist.

I have to say, the best part about voting no was the symbolism behind it. They voted against minor austerity, but the result will likely be a return to the drachma which will be worthless, meaning extreme austerity will abound. They didn't want to cut pensions, just wait until those pensions are priced in drachma! LOL

originally posted by: xuenchen
Look who

Guess who

In early 2010, it was revealed that through the assistance of Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase and numerous other banks, financial products were developed which enabled the governments of Greece, Italy and many other European countries to hide their borrowing.[93][94] Dozens of similar agreements were concluded across Europe whereby banks supplied cash in advance in exchange for future payments by the governments involved; in turn, the liabilities of the involved countries were "kept off the books".

Economy of Greece

All true. But the Greek government at the time knew it as well. They knew they were committing fraud to get into the EU.

Say all you want about GS, but if the Greek government of the day didn't want to lie, they wouldn't have.

It's unfortunate the people of Greece today suffer for their corrupt governments of the past, but it's also unfair to continue to expect Germany and others to pay for their years of access.

If they Grexit, they will not be able to buy needed commodities on the world market, inflation will skyrocket and they will be in much more trouble than they already are. It completely baffles me why governmemts have lost the ability to post balanced budgets.

originally posted by: Talliostro
@Beobachter:
Don't know your friends, but most of my friends/family and coworkers here are bright enought to see through the Bild/Spiegel propaganda crap.

Same here.
I actually don't know anyone anymore who believes in the crap Bild/BZ/Kurier/etc are pushing.
Nor do I know anyone who is still 100% pro EU/IMF...

originally posted by: Dr1Akula


Then you missed everything my friend, and u should do some research, Until the referendum, it was a blackmail situation all these 5 years, either you accept our (loan) deal, or since you don't have your own momentary since you have euros, we stop the cash flow, and let you bankrupt

OK. So they borrow money WAAAAAAY beyond their means. Banks lend said money. Banks request money back. Greece tells them "we can't afford to pay you back". Banks try hard, very hard to work with them, Greece still refuses to make changes necessary to right their economy. Banks had enough, tell Greece if they won't help themselves, then neither shall we.

Im not seeing the 'blackmail' here. If you get a loan, and cannot pay it back, there are consequences. Money does not grow in trees.

Do a research about how Greece got into the euro currency.....

Many have. They got in by conspiring with Goldman Sachs to cook their books. With an economy as dismal as theirs, they would never have been allowed in had they not knowingly lied.

You do understand money isn't free and needs to be repaid? Making other countries who are actually financially responsible pay for your mess is not being a good neighbor.

Tsipras just had a meeting with IMF's Christine La Guard and she told him "NO" to giving him more money. She will not do anything until Greece pays its debt.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

1. Leave the EU and abandon the Euro
2. Guarantee double middle fingers to existing creditors (Can the EU banks absorb a 320 Billion Euro write-off?)
3. Either leave NATO or join Turkey as a Russia-friendly voice in NATO (along with a solid source of insider information.)

Russia is not interested in Greece leaving EU, do you think Russia want to receive Greek drachma in return for investment ?
It is completely inside EU problems, Russia is not interested to pay 320 Billion Euro debt instead of Greece, there will be no write off if Greece abruptly joining Sino-Russia alliance ( which is also a shaky and not proven thing) If Russia fails to keep current Greek life style and their relatively high income it is Russia who will be blamed. The only thing how Russia can not fail is to pay all Greece debt and continue to subsidies Greece as a client state. Russia can not afford this.
Turkey is not pro-Russian agent inside Nato, Turkey is playing their own game. For example, Turkey want to dethrone Assad, Russia backing Assad. Russia standing on the side of Armenia, Turkey quite hostile to Armenia. And Turkey and Greece are hostile to each other Backing Greece will further complicate relations with Turkey.
Little known fact that Cyprus shouldn't be allowed to join EU by own EU guide lines. Cyprus have unresolved conflict with Norther Cyprus.
Northern Cyprus is occupied by Turkey, pseudo autonomous state.. How Cyprus was allowed to join before the conflict is resolved is another "fast track" story of expanding EU in the early 2000-s. Probably,also financially Cyprus cooked books like Greece lol

a reply to: TonyS

Who''s next? Spain, Portugal, Italy? Are these mass migrations of economic and war refugees going to overwhelm the entire civilized world and its economic systems?

Next Euro will fail and reorganize as Northern Europe alliance only. Southern Europe will be flooded with immigrants from Africa and ME. Border controls will be erected between Spain and France, Italy and Switzerland etc. Catalonia going out of Spain and joining Northern Euro zone, perhaps also Northern Italy following after. Africans and Asians standing at the gates of Rome, Turks at the gates of Vienna lol.