Flat Earth Support? Or is just another Faked Globe Video?

I wonder what flat earthers say about video's of Mars revolving? it looks spherical to me, but, perhaps I'm biased?

originally posted by: Cauliflower
Before the 1500's the majority of the worlds population were flat Earthers.
Is that because people were stupider back then, or just organized differently with more information left hidden from the masses?

I believe the latter according to the ancient Chinese,they built the Great Canal of China which is 700 miles in length was built without any regard to the supposed curvature of the earth. they believed they lived on a stationary plane

"If the Earth be a globe of popular belief it is very evident that in cutting a canal an allowance must be made for the curvature of the globe,which allowance would correspond to the square of the distance multiplied by eight inches."

other canals are built in this manner without taking into the account of the curvature of the Earth.

"The German Emperor performed the ceremony of opening the gates of the Baltic and North sea canal ,in the spring of 1891.The canal starts at Holtenau on the south side of Kiel Bay,and joins the Elbe 15 miles above its mouth. It's 61 miles long 200 feet wide at the surface and 85 feet at the bottom,the depth being 28 feet.
No locks are required, as the surface of the 2 seas is level .Let those who believe it is the practice for surveyors to make allowance for curvature ponder over the following from the Manchester Ship Canal Company(earth review October 1893)
It is customary in railway and canal constructions for all levels to be referred to a datum which is nominally horizontal and is so shown on all sections.It is not the practice in laying out public works to make allowances for the curvature of the Earth.
Thomas Winship "Zetetic cosmogeny"

canal

acient Chinese
Even though I believe what is written above to be true I find it very hard to make a conscious leap in believing fully without question the Earth is flat...I do enjoy and appreciate the adult conversation though!

while i am not a flat earther, it does appear NASA doctored some pics.
i think they may have done this just to enhance the photos, make them more interesting.

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: Useurbrain

How and why is this 11 freakin' pages long???

Welcome to the Skunkworks...where any conspiracy lives no matter what evidence you have to the contrary of the OP.

Sadly what was intended to be a think tank of sorts for ideas lacking supporting evidence has transitioned into a trash bin of sorts for 'conspiracy' for the sake of 'conspiracy'. As you said, regardless of evidence to the contrary. There is a huge difference in my opinion.

have you addressed any the the evidence presented in the numerous video's and reply's in this thread?there is plenty of evidence to be seen. it seems though that most of the reply's are members calling people derogatory names and letting them know something is wrong with their thinking...the better question is what happened to intelligent conversations on ats? just for the sake of discussion?
these are just some of the reply's in this thread.

"How can someone be declared stupid, without knowledge?"
"But a small faction of the conspiracy group, (likely chemtrailers) will believe anything that goes against the status quo, even if it's idiotic."
"Who's mad?"
"It's hilarious."
"That statement proves this thread is a baiting joke."

and

"Apparently someone invented a time machine several thousand years ago and has just arrived in our current time frame."
"The Earth is flat because government lies."
"What else is true because government lies? Rainbows are flying unicorn pee?"
"It may be a joke. Mainly though it's just the summer."
"You're living in fantasy land"

and

"How and why is this 11 freakin' pages long??? It should have ended right after the first dult suggested the earth is flat.
Before the 1500's the majority of the worlds population were flat Earthers."
"Is that because people were stupider back then, or just organized differently with more information left hidden from the masses?"
"I think 'flat earthers' need to take a long hard look at themselves."

"How can someone be declared stupid, without knowledge?"
"No, I think you failed to understand what was said."

"Held up by elephants."
"Now hold on just a cotton-pickin' minute! I thought the elephants were on top of the turtles?" My whole life is a lie..."
"No, the real humor is those who actually believe what youtube tells them over actual science."
"That's not what I see in this thread. I see science and common sense versus insanity."
"Actually don't jump, I am afraid you might hit your head and get even more confused than you seem to be."
"A thread where people don't believe the world is round. Jesus H Christ! Mind numbing. Is this really 2015 because it seems more like 1520 !"

and I leave it with your words

"Sadly what was intended to be a think tank of sorts for ideas lacking supporting evidence has transitioned into a trash bin of sorts for 'conspiracy' for the sake of 'conspiracy'."

unfortunately it's some of the more frequent posters some of the more(respected?)members...it has become a trash bin even just for the sake of discussion.

a reply to: ThreeDeuce

Just a general reply, not directed specifically at you, but more at the topic of "flat earth" and flat earth proponents-

When I was in the US Navy, we had these huge tri-pod mounted binoculars up on the signal deck that could see easily to each horizon, 12 miles in every direction, one port, one starboard.

It was amazing the amount of periscopes from subs we'd see slicing through the water on the edge of the horizon on a clear day!

Well not really. From 12 miles away, 99.9 % of the time they were just the masts of other ships.

Why did those things look like periscopes? Because the rest of the vessel was obscured by the CURVATURE of the earth, and the only part of those ships sticking above the curvature of the earth, from our vantage point, was the very tops of them, over the horizon, and they always looked like periscopes slicing through the ocean far far away, because all you saw was the top of the ship at that distance.

If the earth was flat, the entire ship would be visible.

Just go to the beach and try it out. Bring binoculars and watch a big ship go out to sea, preferably a sailing vessel with a tall mast. Before it disappears completely over the horizon (because it's curved) the last thing you will see is the top of it. It won't just fade into the mist of distance, then poof, it's gone, unless visibility is less than 12 miles due to fog/smog/humidity...etc.

Or get about 16-17 miles away from a big city on a flat plane, get a pair of binoculars and you will see the tops of the buildings, but the bottoms of the buildings will be obscured by the curve of the earth because the lower parts of the buildings aren't high enough above the horizon to see from that distance no matter how flat the area around the city is.

The horizon at sea is 12 miles. Beyond that, visibility fades into the sky because of the curved surface of the earth. Visibility at sea would be much farther if the earth was flat. It's 12 miles, but not because of a lack of visibility at sea, but because you can't look through a wall of curved water to see the ship on the other side of it.


Believe me, you don't need photos from space to "prove" the earth is a globe.

a reply to: Gozer

What you described is actually one of the problems that I have with both theories, Flat and Globe and it is something that I am researching and want to test myself. While some may jump to call it a "Mirage", I am not that quick to call it that. The problem that I have with this, is that 1) many claim that the ships "drop off" not from the horizon's curvature, but other affects (I'm unsure and not an expert on this) 2) I find it personally "odd" that even at the most extreme distance, the perspective to that object doesn't change. What I mean is that the angle of that object doesn't change. This is also the problem that I have with buildings, as I have never seen a slanted building at distance. Ships and buildings far enough to leave sight would have appeared slanted way before they dropped off.

Also, I think people see the horizon dropping off as proof of a curve. I can see how this is easy to assume, especially if we are looking at the situation expecting a curve. Where I am sure of this, is that you do NOT see a curvature from left to right, which would need to be very prominent on a globe. Every single test that I have seen shows that the horizon is level from left to right, which is a mathematical impossibility on a sphere.

Rather than just looking straight out for the curve, I would welcome everyone to look left and right. There are even some great tests on youtube where someone puts a string up between two trees, and video tapes the horizon line. It is absolutely flat.

Believe me when I say that I disagree with you about needing pictures from space. Why else would we drop trillions into NASA, and yet we don't have legitimate high res photos and videos? Like Galileo could take a time lapse for 4 days from 1.3 million miles away. I don't believe that for a second. And why? Because of the other part of the GLobe theory, that is that we are hurtling around the sun, our whole solar system is hurtling through the milky way, and the milky way is going through the universe. Regardless of all this movement, we have photos as clear as day for 4 days straight (with no wobble or movement) from over a MILLION miles away. I don't think that we are that advanced.

Speaking of advanced, did you know that we did not lose a single American in space - EVER. SInce we started going into space, not a single one. No severe mechanical malfunction and no environmental damage such as flares or micrometeorites or anything.... Sure, we had the Apollo 16 near tragedy (supposedly), but no deaths? If I put this together with the Astronaut's nonchalant way that they approach the space walks I smell a lie. Each and every spacewalk would be possible death. Yet, they don't talk to their families, and they are not solemn. Sure, you could say training prepared them. But, how were they so prepared that they have not had a single incident? NASA is not that competent. Plus, we are talking about over 45 years of space travel. Zero deaths.

I'm personally skeptical to everything that NASA says, and I have been for about ten years. I never thought that it would extend to Flat Earth, but that is where my last 2.5 months of research has led me. That is what the evidence tells me. No matter how much that I assure you that I have looked at the evidence with unbiased eyes, that would be hard to believe. Why? Because my stance is exactly the opposite from yours.

If I can ask you a question, did those periscopes or masts every look angled to you? Actually I should ask if they looked as if they were angled away from you. I have been studying ships and buildings dropping off the horizon and I've never seen one angled. If the ship drops off the horizon without changing it's angle to you, then we must look for another explanation rather than a curve.

Thanks for the way that you questioned my assertions. I do appreciate it. Thanks!

originally posted by: TWILITE22
It seems though that most of the reply's are members calling people derogatory names and letting them know something is wrong with their thinking...the better question is what happened to intelligent conversations on ats? just for the sake of discussion?

Personally, I think that it comes from ATS's motto of deny ignorance. It seems that many people have taken this as a motto for them to attack those that they believe are ignorant. This is a true perversion of their motto, as it is meant to stop those types of attacks. The motto was formed to stop ignorance and attacks that are not intelligent. Yes, I do hope that we can get back to normal discussions, but I don't think that is realistic with this topic.

I think that people get incredibly butthurt by this topic. If you see absolutely zero possibility of something being true, then it should not irritate you that someone would post about it on a conspiracy forum. They are posting because they believe it, or at least they believe that they have reason to question it.

If the world is NOT a globe, then this is an issue of indoctrination. On some levels this would be considered brainwashing. Where this becomes unique, is that it would need to be a lie pervasive throughout centuries. Is this a possibility? I think so, although I do not know the reason nor the scope of the lie.

People ask why would NASA lie, and what is the point, and what is the big deal about the shape of the Earth? I have no clue. We don't know the lie nor the truth. All I can say, is that I believe that I have proof of NASA's lies, and that since researching this topic nonstop for 2.5 months, that I feel that I can make the claim that the evidence points to the Flat Earth.

You can see my topics on ATS. I jump over the board from survival to UFOs to religion and back again. I also comment much on scientific threads. Why? because my passion is science.

If this is an issue of indoctrination and deception by our government, then I can not fault people for acting so strongly in defense of the globe. A reaction like that would be normal in a mass lie like this. People want to compare this to other conspiracies, however I am very hesitant to. I have not seen a lie this widespread or ingrained into a psyche of a country.

Attacking me is much easier than actually doing research for themselves. There's a limit that I expect them to research also, because they believe that the globe is supported by all of these theories and mathematical calculations. I also believe that this is another part of the fraud - theories don't support theories - or at least they shouldn't. Physical science should support theory.

Also, why in this age of intense technology, are we still crutching to mathematical theory from centuries ago to support what we should be able to measure and support in real world testing? Wouldn't it be the easiest thing to prove if it is reality?

originally posted by: ThreeDeuce
a reply to: Gozer



Rather than just looking straight out for the curve, I would welcome everyone to look left and right. There are even some great tests on youtube where someone puts a string up between two trees, and video tapes the horizon line. It is absolutely flat.

Oh! a string between two trees! fantastic scientific observation. The circumference of the earth is more than 40'000km. A string between two trees is definitely going to clearly show curvature!!! The distance to the horizon is close to 6km at 2m height. Unless your two trees are really far apart, ie. 6km, you aren’t going to observe anything.

a reply to: Badams

Actually it would. But your response shows that you have not studied the mathematical curvature that must exist left to right when looking at the horizon. This was the singe "tipping point" for me, when studying about Flat vs Globe debate.

A globe at any size would NEVER have a flat horizon. There wouldn't be a single flat point, and a string between two trees could prove this. The string SHOULD prove that the Earth is round, but it does not.

When does a test not prove reality?
1) you have an incorrect test. A straight line is not an incorrect test for this, as it is perfectly straight
2) you have an incorrect reality or belief of reality, so the test doesn't measure up to your expected results.

I would suggest that you ratify your logic with the string idea, because in my understanding it is seriously flawed.

a reply to: ThreeDeuce

A globe at any size would NEVER have a flat horizon. There wouldn't be a single flat point, and a string between two trees could prove this. The string SHOULD prove that the Earth is round, but it does not.

True, the horizon is curved. Just not enough so you would see it with the naked eye and a piece of string.

Because of the shape of the Earth, the surface "falls" at a rate of about 8 inches per mile. This means that the horizon appears at a distance of about 2.9 miles to a person standing at sea level (ignoring the effects of light refraction). Now, lets take a piece of string and stretch it between two trees on the beach (probably coconuts). How far apart? 20 feet? Ok. How close are we standing to that piece of string? 20 feet? Ok. So, that 20 feet of string spans about 53º of the horizon (thank you trigonometry). That equates to 20 miles of horizon (53º at 2.9 miles). So the horizon would fall 80 inches below each end of the string (10 miles * 8 inches).

Sounds like a lot. But would it be noticeable? Let's see. The horizon is 2.9 miles away. At that distance that 80 inches represents an angular distance of 0.0036º. 4/1000th's of a degree below the end of the piece of string. Can your eye discern that? I don't think so. That's about 10 times better than human visual acuity provides.

Now, do something other than a piece of string and your eyeball, and guess what. You can measure it. But no, you can't see it. Unless you've got a good amount of altitude under you.

a reply to: ThreeDeuce

I've been alive long enough to look back and see the indoctrination that's taken place in my life,One aspect of my personality is I have always known by speaking to and looking at a person if they are lying.This doesn't amount to a hill of beans but for me it works.. I truly believe they are lying about something big what it is I don't know if it is the flat earth then everything collapses everything we've been taught throughout our lives is a lie,past,present and future is a lie.
I trust what my eyes tell me I trust myself to know what I know,what they tell us I don't trust at all.I cannot make the leap to say I believe 100% today because I'm horrible at math so I have to trust those that are and I can't just yet but at the same time it all makes sense it all the evidence seems to be falling into place.
I've heard though that there is physics we know and another one they use to calculate the math...could they be so bold?could the everyday population be that asleep?
I keep asking myself could the lie be this big? and I can't answer that I'm stuck.
This is so far off anyone's radar I ask my daughter what she thought if the earth was flat? I have to say I've never seen the look on her face the way she looked at me it was hilarious she's very bright and articulate but all she could answer was what she was taught in school the conversation didn't last long it took her awhile to come out of the shock of the question.
most of those on ats has an agenda I'm quite positive of that. but I do know that there are some that feel as though if the flat earth was true it would take what sanity they have left.I really believe it would destroy them psychologically.
If someone said the earth was a triangle I would at least give them the common courtesy to have a conversation without calling them names or click out of the thread.
no there are too many on this site with an agenda what reason otherwise to come into a thread except trying to feel superior about their knowledge...yeah deny ignorance they have twisted the real meaning of it.
maybe one day I will have an epiphany so until then I will stay on the fence...

what really great about some that believe enough to have the ability to go out and check for themselves I applaud them for that I've post this video in one of the other flat earth threads but here it is once more.

a reply to: TWILITE22

I trust what my eyes tell me

Not the best of starting points.
i.imgur.com...

a reply to: AutumnWitch657

See the issue I have is that if people have gone to such lengths to dismiss a FET then what else could be fabricated to support it.
People assume that space, moon, sun etc all behave the way we we're told. But what if they don't behave the way we're told.
OK so say the earth is flat does that mean we're a flat disc in space? Not really, as with any theory it's only a theory. Science proved we are on a globe right? Well that's what I learned at school. Could land be much much bigger than we know? Could it stretch indefinitely? I don't know as I've not been.
What happens if the laws of the universe don't behave the way were told? I mean science theorises that the globe model is correct because of all this other BS that mathematically makes sense without actually having anything to back it up.
So we have apparently a few photos of Earth with 99% being openly admitted that they're composites built from hundreds of images and considering how easy it is to draw, paint, composite an image can we take that as proof?
Using a telescope I can see some blurry lights. Do I know it's a planet? Well we sent probes to them right? And they sent back numbers and low quality images.

If you're going to entertain the FET then you have to throw out "solid proof?" Especially from agencies such as NASA, JAXA, ESA or any other space agency since if the world is flat then they will know this fact. Even if people arent aware it only takes a few images and some numbers to fool anybody. "Look here is our data coming in. Look at those images, look at those numbers"
I'm no flat earther but if you're going to review something as mould breaking as this then you have to throw out conventional science,I mean they're the ones writing the theories and educational text books right?.

If the TPTB spent 500 years convincing you that the world is flat then people would believe it.
Science will spend 500 years writing theories and developing mathematics that support that theory.

a reply to: Lesmahagow

OK so say the earth is flat does that mean we're a flat disc in space? Not really, as with any theory it's only a theory.

Actually that is what it means, or else it wouldn't be called the flat Earth theory.

Science proved we are on a globe right? Well that's what I learned at school. Could land be much much bigger than we know? Could it stretch indefinitely? I don't know as I've not been.

But others have...do we just dismiss what they say of their first hand knowledge?

a reply to: TWILITE22

.yeah deny ignorance they have twisted the real meaning of it.

So the real meaning of Deny Ignorance is what, since you say some have twisted the real meaning of it?

So why lie?

Let's say, that somehow, we have been mistaken about the shape of the Earth ever since the idea of it being round.

If the Earth were really flat, we would know that beyond a shadow of a doubt when they first tried to start putting things into orbit with a camera.

Why lie? What possible reason could anyone have to lie about it? What advantage would it give anyone?

It would have been huge news. Scientist would have had to rethink many things: gravity, planet formation, etc. And before anyone says that's is why, scientist end up doing that for a multitude of things already!

What possible reason could so many people (because considering all the people that work in the various space agencies around the world, every government, all the civilians, weather people that use weather balloons that go up to over 100,000 feet where you can see the curve quite clearly, etc, etc) all of them would have to lie about it to everyone else.

Why? It makes absolutely NO sense at all!

Theories about who killed JFK, or we never went to the moon, or even the idea of Planet X holds more water than Flat Earth.

a reply to: Lesmahagow

Go stand by the sea and watch a ship sailing away from you. You will see proof of the curvature of the Earth. Then come back here and apologise.

a reply to: Lesmahagow

Using a telescope I can see some blurry lights. Do I know it's a planet?

Really, you do not do justice to amateur astronomers. Have a look at a collection of photos made by amateur astronomers that I posted in a different thread. These are made by regular people, with a telescope anyone can buy. There's people making picture with a damned smartphone through their telescope and getting reasonable results.

If the way our solar system works is not true, if "the scientists" have lied about it, how are amateur astronomers able to track celestial objects? They are using mathematics, it's solid science.

The reason people go to such lengths to disprove the flat earth "theory" is because it's almost mindnumbing to see people ignore facts because they are so eager to believe everything is a conspiracy. Please take a look at the posts I linked below which contain a myriad of beautiful photos made by amateur astronomers from their back yard.

Also, have an earthrise:


www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Aarsvin

I'm betting that the response will be something on the lines of: "You got that from NASA! It's a lie! They... used a model! Where are the stars? You're perpetuating a fraud! You're a part of the conspiracy! You're a big meanie for using facts and figures and equations!"

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: TWILITE22

.yeah deny ignorance they have twisted the real meaning of it.

So the real meaning of Deny Ignorance is what, since you say some have twisted the real meaning of it?

well I believe it means to willfully ignore the evidence presented in a theory and since we are on a conspiracy forum I would add one that refuses to go outside of the box to look at evidence pertaining to alternate theories on any given subject, or to willfully ignore evidence of alternate theories...or is this not a conspiracy forum anymore?
I'm not trying to convince anyone that the earth is flat,I do wish to explore the possibility...I like to deny the indoctrination and the lies fed to all of us