Why all the focus on gay marriage?

Why are some people SOOOO against gay marriage when there are atheists, murderers, embezzlers, cheaters, etc. getting married? Where's the outrage over those people getting married? If marriage is strictly a Christian ceremony, why are they ok with non-Christians getting married but not ok with actual Christians (who happen to be gay) getting married? It's a bit hypocritical I think.

What did Jesus say about gay people? I think if it was such a huge deal to God then he would have at least mentioned it briefly, but he doesn't, he's totally silent about it until Paul (the church) comes into the picture.

I see those who are against gay marriage being the same as someone refusing to do business with someone on the basis of their race. Why the hypocrisy? If atheists getting married doesn't somehow corrupt the institution of marriage then why would gay marriage corrupt it?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Jesus said - Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death."


“Go and sin no more,” Jesus was not speaking of sinless perfection. He was warning against a return to sinful lifestyle choices.

Those choices are many including lying, cheating, immorality, sex, greed, etc.

With forgiveness comes the expectation that we will not continue in the same path of rebelliousness.

When we turn to Christ and receive His forgiveness, we experience a heart change .

Forgiveness is not cheap, and it does not excuse the sin that separated us from God. It cost God everything to offer us the cleansing that pronounces us righteous before Him.

Rather than continue in the self-centered path that led us astray from Him to begin with, the forgiven can walk in God’s path (Luke 14:27). A move toward God is a move toward righteousness, purity, and holy living (1 Peter 1:16; Romans 8:29). We cannot experience the transforming power of forgiveness without being forever changed.

When we meet Jesus, sin no longer holds its fatal attraction. Grace changes things.

When we are born again (John 3:3), the power of the Holy Spirit breaks the power that sin once had over us (Romans 6:6).



Sin leads to a downward progression. If left unchecked, continual sin leads to a “reprobate mind,” spoken of in Romans 1:24. Our sin nature causes us to gravitate naturally toward selfishness, envy, and pride, even when we are trying to do good. The build-up of unrepentant sin is sometimes pictured as a “cup of iniquity” being filled to the brim.

The acceptance of Sin as acceptable behavior is called Iniquity. Iniquity left unchecked leads to a state of willful sin with no fear of God. Very destructive.


I myself agree with you. Sin as Sin and to willfully accept it into your daily lifestyle has negative consequences regardless of "which iniquities" they are. I don't see a rating system on them!

We all are sinful but we have the choice to know and reject sinning as wrong or to accept it, promote it, an celebrate it. Those are vastly different things.

I wish i knew..

it's deeper than just marriage though , why was it Illegal to be Homosexual? why were thought of as Mental Illness?

there have been Gay people through history and farther back, we are not a "New thing" why were/are people scared?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

They are just disguising their bigotry behind their religion.
Gay marriage has happened old news tbh.

I think this is a very valid argument.

Maybe I haven't paid enough attention, but I haven't seen it presented this way. Thanks for the eye opener.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Jesus said

.... nothing about gay marriage.

He said some were born eunuchs (homosexual) but nothing about gay marriage being unacceptable.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Jesus said

“Go and sin no more,” Jesus was not speaking of sinless perfection. He was warning against a return to sinful lifestyle choices.

Those choices are many including lying, cheating, immorality, sex, greed, etc.

With forgiveness comes the expectation that we will not continue in the same path of rebelliousness.

When we turn to Christ and receive His forgiveness, we experience a heart change .

Forgiveness is not cheap, and it does not excuse the sin that separated us from God. It cost God everything to offer us the cleansing that pronounces us righteous before Him.

Rather than continue in the self-centered path that led us astray from Him to begin with, the forgiven can walk in God’s path (Luke 14:27). A move toward God is a move toward righteousness, purity, and holy living (1 Peter 1:16; Romans 8:29). We cannot experience the transforming power of forgiveness without being forever changed.

When we meet Jesus, sin no longer holds its fatal attraction. Grace changes things.

When we are born again (John 3:3), the power of the Holy Spirit breaks the power that sin once had over us (Romans 6:6).



Sin leads to a downward progression. If left unchecked, continual sin leads to a “reprobate mind,” spoken of in Romans 1:24. Our sin nature causes us to gravitate naturally toward selfishness, envy, and pride, even when we are trying to do good. The build-up of unrepentant sin is sometimes pictured as a “cup of iniquity” being filled to the brim.

The acceptance of Sin as acceptable behavior is called Iniquity. Iniquity left unchecked leads to a state of willful sin with no fear of God. Very destructive.


I myself agree with you. Sin as Sin and to willfully accept it into your daily lifestyle has negative consequences regardless of "which iniquities" they are. I don't see a rating system on them!

We all are sinful but we have the choice to know and reject sinning as wrong or to accept it, promote it, an celebrate it. Those are vastly different things.

This didn't answer my question, sounds more like a sermon.

The question was: why are some against gay marriage but ok with atheists/non-Christians/murderers getting married?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Greetings and Salutations- To be fair the ones that are against/con are the same ones that yell at 4 and 5 year old children "JESUS DIED FOR YOUR SINS" and this is the childs first visit to Church™ because Her goldfish "died" and the parents spent 3 days trying to explain "death" and then here comes Zasu Zealot YELLING at the precious, impressionable child and pointing to "Jesus" the only blue eyed, honey brown haired Jew in ALL of the land, first in an oil based painting in the nave, (Jesus and His flock) then O.T.C. (On The Cross- pun intended). These ones are also known to point fingers with dirty hands, and should have a vehicle emblazoned with bumper stickers promoting "Their Faith"..

Not ALL Chris†ians are like that, and I'd opine those who claim Chris†ianity to cringe when the fundie pops out of the woodwork and then professes to speak for the group/sect..

What is truly dripping in irony is watching the thrice married Preacher wearing a $35k watch Preaching about the "Sanctity of Marriage" telling 'the flock' that God meant Man/Woman or in the preacher's case Man/Woman/Woman/Woman.

What are the numbers now on marriages ending in divorce? More than half? I'd guess that it has more to do with $$$/monetary benefits and "They" (insurance companies) want to continue to gouge folks as it relates to pensions and whatnot?? "They" just throw $$$ at some religious™ group to fight "The Good Fight" Just like the old days but instead of KILLING folks for "God and Church" "They" are just taking their $$$

Why should anybody be denied to be as miserable as the next guy?

namaste

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Maybe they think Sins have a rating system and that one is higher on the list? I don't know what motivates some to pick and choose. Adultery, Homosexuality, Same kind of sin.

We are all corrupted. Every single one of us. Maybe some forget that.

For me, the goal is to acknowledge the sins in my life, seek repentance from Jesus who sacrificed himself to pay for those sins, and try to get it out of my daily life. That was the message of Jesus.

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands.

Whoever says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person.

But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him:

The one who says that he abides in him must live the same way he himself lived.

Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them.

For everything in the world--the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life--comes not from the Father but from the world.

The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

'Cause. . . gay.

Gay is so . . . gay. And then there's "gayness" and catching gay that causes gay to spread to create more gay.

Gay.

_______________________________________________________________

Homosexuality has been a big no-no in the church for centuries. It's not just a religious thing, it's a cultural thing. It takes time.

We live in a microwave society where cultural norms have to be changed now. Right now.

Right this very instant!

That took too long. Change faster!

a reply to: infolurker

We are all corrupted. Every single one of us. Maybe some forget that.

Not every one of us, some can be fixed. Are autistic children who have never hurt a fly corrupted as well? Children with down's syndrome? Seems as though you're painting with a very broad brush here. You can't speak for everyone I'm afraid.

We all have the ability to do wrong, but we also have the ability to love. Love is incorruptible, meaning a part of us is as well.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Oh yes,

We are born into corruption into a corrupted world.

Trying to get humans to be sinless is like trying to change the instinct of animals. You may be able to train or domesticate the animal but the instinct to be a cat, dog, whatever is always there and will always manifest itself. Humans have the ability to "self deny" and control themselves of course. That is where we have a conscious choice to give into sin or deny it.

It is now the nature of this construct.

a reply to: infolurker

Rather than continue in the self-centered path that led us astray from Him to begin with, the forgiven can walk in God’s path (Luke 14:27). A move toward God is a move toward righteousness, purity, and holy living (1 Peter 1:16; Romans 8:29). We cannot experience the transforming power of forgiveness without being forever changed.

That's a rather strange assumption that people start out close to "Him" then go astray through sin.

Romans 5;12Therefore, as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin; and so death passed to all men, because all sinned. 13For until the law, sin was in the world; but sin is not charged when there is no law. 14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those whose sins weren't like Adam's disobedience, who is a foreshadowing of him who was to come.

Mark 10:13They were bringing to him little children, that he should touch them, but the disciples rebuked those who were bringing them. 14But when Jesus saw it, he was moved with indignation, and said to them, "Allow the little children to come to me! Don't forbid them, for the Kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 15Most certainly I tell you, whoever will not receive the Kingdom of God like a little child, he will in no way enter into it."

Maybe people who want to be part of "Kingdom of God" (whatever that is) should avoid being Bar Mitzvah or Bat Mitzvah.

What a conundrum: Can a Bar Mitzvah go back to being pre-Bar Mitzvah?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Well until the 13th century, gay marriage was 100% legal and happened quite regularly. So as to what changed, your guess is as good as mine.

How marriage changed over the centuries

Same-sex unions aren't a recent invention. Until the 13th century, male-bonding ceremonies were common in churches across the Mediterranean. Apart from the couples' gender, these events were almost indistinguishable from other marriages of the era. Twelfth-century liturgies for same-sex unions — also known as "spiritual brotherhoods" — included the recital of marriage prayers, the joining of hands at the altar, and a ceremonial kiss. Some historians believe these unions were merely a way to seal alliances and business deals. But Eric Berkowitz, author of Sex and Punishment, says it is "difficult to believe that these rituals did not contemplate erotic contact. In fact, it was the sex between the men involved that later caused same-sex unions to be banned." That happened in 1306, when the Byzantine Emperor Andronicus II declared such ceremonies, along with sorcery and incest, to be unchristian.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

One of my favorite books I liked to read to my daughter when she was still a toddler was The Knuffle Bunny Too.

In it, the main protagonist goes to school where another little girl has a bunny just like hers. It makes her feel like hers isn't so special. I think it's a cautionary tale, outlining this exact behavior.

If you look at the fundamentalist right wing list of things they like, you'll see a similar trend. There's a reason why it goes hand-in-hand. If they are born in a privileged home, they lament at the thought of less privileged families getting some of the same stuff they have (like food or rent money). They want to hold prayer in schools and have Christian monuments but get upset when a Muslim prayer group is suggested or a statue of Baphomet is proposed. And, of course... marriage. It follows the same trend: if people I don't approve of get the same civil liberties I do, then that somehow makes my liberties less liberty-like.

With that mentality, it personally offends them to see people who are not similar to them enjoying the same benefits they enjoy and feel they are exclusively entitled to. Of course, in each of these scenarios, there are philosophical/religious excuses they cling to even if they are completely counter to each other (like Ayn Rand and Jesus). It's no wonder that Christians have been fooled into adopting this counter-intuitive thinking as it gives legitimacy to greed and license for Christians to be contradictory.

I feel that Christians will someday come full circle and start emulating their Jesus more faithfully but it will take quite a few shake-ups in politics for it to happen. When that happens, I think a Christian against marriage equality will be a rare find.

originally posted by: Cuervo
a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

One of my favorite books I liked to read to my daughter when she was still a toddler was The Knuffle Bunny Too.

In it, the main protagonist goes to school where another little girl has a bunny just like hers. It makes her feel like hers isn't so special. I think it's a cautionary tale, outlining this exact behavior.

If you look at the fundamentalist right wing list of things they like, you'll see a similar trend. There's a reason why it goes hand-in-hand. If they are born in a privileged home, they lament at the thought of less privileged families getting some of the same stuff they have (like food or rent money). They want to hold prayer in schools and have Christian monuments but get upset when a Muslim prayer group is suggested or a statue of Baphomet is proposed. And, of course... marriage. It follows the same trend: if people I don't approve of get the same civil liberties I do, then that somehow makes my liberties less liberty-like.

With that mentality, it personally offends them to see people who are not similar to them enjoying the same benefits they enjoy and feel they are exclusively entitled to. Of course, in each of these scenarios, there are philosophical/religious excuses they cling to even if they are completely counter to each other (like Ayn Rand and Jesus). It's no wonder that Christians have been fooled into adopting this counter-intuitive thinking as it gives legitimacy to greed and license for Christians to be contradictory.

I feel that Christians will someday come full circle and start emulating their Jesus more faithfully but it will take quite a few shake-ups in politics for it to happen. When that happens, I think a Christian against marriage equality will be a rare find.

Holy ShIt talk about paining with a broad brush! LOL

Now that is some good Psychobabble, throwing in some good ole progressive "privileged" non-sense into the mix!

A little hint here: Pink skin toned people grow up poor as well.... oh, the shock!

a reply to: Cuervo

This is a good point and I've seen it too. I just don't know if I would have been able to articulate it as well as you did.

a reply to: infolurker

Now that is some good Psychobabble!

For crying out loud! What about the thread?

Should atheists be banned from marrying? Atheism isn't quite according to the Bible.

Should Pagans be banned from marrying? They aren't quite acceptable to the Bible.

Should murderers be banned from marrying? They aren't quite acceptable to the Bible.

ETA

To be perfectly Christian, not hard hearted, should Christians be banned from divorcing?
after all didn't Jesus equate divorce with hardness of heart?

a reply to: infolurker

It seems when someone makes a good point against a strongly held opinion, that's when people tend to raise their voices the loudest and act offended. I see that in this post, using strong words like "psychobabble" to discredit what has been said.

Cuervo hit the nail on the head with that post in my opinion, it makes total sense.

originally posted by: infolurker


Now that is some good Psychobabble, throwing in some good ole progressive "privileged" non-sense into the mix!

A little hint here: Pink skin toned people grow up poor as well.... oh, the shock!

How is that a broad brush? I was talking about fundamentalist right-wing people who are against marriage equality. Not all Christians. Not all conservatives. Not all people against marriage equality. I was talking about all three and I made that clear.

I never even mentioned color. Talk about projecting.