It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The pro-Russia separatist regions just named Crimea as a part of Ukraine

page: 1
5
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 01:34 PM
link   
The pro-Russia separatist regions just named Crimea as a part of Ukraine


The pro-Russia separatist regions of Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) and Luhansk People's Republic (LPR) just named Crimea as a part of Ukraine in the draft amendments to the Constitution of Ukraine.

That doesn't jibe with claims made by their backers in Moscow.

From the document (translated into English by Business Insider):

"Article 133. The administrative-territorial system of Ukraine contains : Autonomous Republic of Crimea, some regions with special status in Donetsk and Luhansk regions, provinces, districts, cities, districts in cities, towns and villages.

Ukraine is composed of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, some regions with special status — the Donetsk and Lugansk regions, Vinnytsa, Volyn, Dnipropetrovsk, Donetsk, Zhytomyr, Transcarpathian, Zaporizhia, Ivano-Frankivsk, Kyiv, Kirovohrad, Luhansk, Lviv, Mykolaiv, Odessa, Poltava , Rivne, Sumy, Ternopil, Kharkiv, Kherson, Khmelnytsky, Cherkasy, Chernivtsi, Chernihiv regions, cities of Kyiv and Sevastopol."

Asked to clarify, an LNR envoy, Vladislav Deynego, said that it's not their place to "bring changes to the constitution of Ukraine regarding the presence or absence of Crimea," according to Lenta News.

"We are acting exactly within the borders of the Minsk agreement. In the Minsk agreements, there was no mention of Crimea," he added. Consequently, he added, the constitution's draft only reflects the changes with respect to the separatist regions, DPR and LNR.

The interesting thing here is that by labeling Crimea as part of Ukraine, this document directly contradicts Russia's annexation of Crimea with special forces in March 2014.


Click lnk for remainder of article...

Talk about a left turn..

I am curious how Russia is going to respond to this. I am also curious as to why the self proclaimed republic would even venture into this water.

Calculated move or is it possible there are more issues between pro Russian rebels and Moscow than what's publicly known.




posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 01:56 PM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra




The pro-Russia separatist regions just named Crimea as a part of Ukraine




This should get good.



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 02:04 PM
link   
Seems like that earlier add for Ukrainian and Russian speaking people to do some work for DOD are getting their messages out .I am sure Moscow will get a chuckle out of this and we may even here this new news repeated at the press brefing from the State Dept . It is after all coming from social media :>)



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 02:43 PM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra

CRUCIFY!
anyway, i smell propaganda. those people voted to be part of russia, and they are not stupidly jumping back and forth.



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 02:59 PM
link   

originally posted by: fixitwcw
a reply to: Xcathdra

CRUCIFY!
anyway, i smell propaganda. those people voted to be part of russia, and they are not stupidly jumping back and forth.


Yeah no they didn't.

Russia invaded and occupies Crimea. We know this because Russian forces seized Crimea before any votes occurred. Knowing that the rebels actually got it right this time with regards to Crimea.



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 03:31 PM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra

The majority of Crimeans didn't want to be under the thumb of a US sposored (via STRATFOR) government in Kiev. That's all



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 04:09 PM
link   

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
a reply to: Xcathdra

The majority of Crimeans didn't want to be under the thumb of a US sposored (via STRATFOR) government in Kiev. That's all



Feel free to provide your source for that claim. The Russian Presidents council says otherwise.



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 06:26 PM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra
the Russian soldiers were there to provide security and nothing more. The Russian Presidents council doesn't say anything about the soldiers being there to annex territory. If Im wrong, please provide a source for your claim.




posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 06:39 PM
link   
Also, lets not forget, there have always been Russian soldiers in Crimea because of the Russian Naval base. Don't try to make it out to be something it isn't. The vast majority of Crimean people wanted to again be part of Russia. Just accept it man! It's the trueth.
edit on 9-6-2015 by Darkmask because: wasn't finnished my post



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 06:53 PM
link   

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: fixitwcw
a reply to: Xcathdra

CRUCIFY!
anyway, i smell propaganda. those people voted to be part of russia, and they are not stupidly jumping back and forth.


Yeah no they didn't.

Russia invaded and occupies Crimea. We know this because Russian forces seized Crimea before any votes occurred. Knowing that the rebels actually got it right this time with regards to Crimea.


That is total BS and you know it. Western media does not write history as much as they would love to. The Russian troops were already in Crimea long before anything happened in Ukraine. If more came during the rebel take-over of Ukraine then prove it was more than was legally allowed by treaties between Russia and Ukraine. It was likely under the maximum allowed before the rebels took over and then Russia boosted the numbers to the max in lieu of the fact that there is crazy mofos shooting at the Ukrainian government, leaving Russian military vessels exposed to threats.

Do you seriously just ignore that fact? Do you hope that nobody knows about it or something? tisk tisk tisk.




edit on 9-6-2015 by MALBOSIA because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 07:12 PM
link   
a reply to: MALBOSIA

Actually no they were not present already and that is a fact and no amount of your denials will change that fact.

Secondly the Russian troops that were present were restricted to their bases per the agreement, which they violated. When the non insignia troops moved into Crimea they again violated the agreement, and ukraines sovereignty.

Since you are ignoring facts maybe you should actually research the agreement between Ukraine and Russia. You will find Russia violated the entire thing.

Let me help you out -

1997 agreement Ukraine-Russia Black Sea


AGREEMENT


between the Russian Federation and Ukraine about the status and conditions of the Black Sea Fleet Russian Federation on the territory of Ukraine


Russian Federation and Ukraine, hereinafter referred to as the Parties, Aiming to further develop and strengthen friendship and cooperation Have agreed as follows below:


Article 1

Status of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation on Ukraine is determined by this Agreement and other agreements between the Parties, is the development of this Agreement.




Article 2

For the purposes of this Agreement, the following terms mean: 1. "Military formations" - the military units Russian Black Sea Fleet stationed in territory of Ukraine. 2. "Companies, organizations and institutions of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation "- stationed on the territory of Ukraine objects of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation, staffed by military personnel and civilians, and engaged in production and business, medical recreational or other similar activities the interests of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation. 3. "The place of dislocation" - defined area, water area, that host military units. 4. "Those members of the military formations" - servicemen of the Russian Federation, extending military service composed of military units, as well as sent to military formations of the Russian Federation. 5. "Family members, members of the military formations "- spouses, children. other permanent residents with relatives of these persons, as well as their dependents face.


Article 3

The Russian Party shall promptly notify the Ukrainian Side through diplomatic channels on the appointment of the Commander Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation.


Article 4

1. The total number of personnel, the number of ships ships, weapons and equipment of the Black Sea Fleet Russian Federation who are pas territory of Ukraine, not will exceed the levels specified in the Agreement between Russian Federation and Ukraine on the parameters section Black Sea Fleet from the "28" in May 1997. 2. The Russian Party shall annually, before January 1, according to list agreed by the Parties shall inform the Ukrainian side of the total number of personnel and the main armament Russian Black Sea Fleet located at territory of Ukraine.



Article 5

Russian Party undertakes not to have nuclear weapons Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation located on the territory of Ukraine.


Article 6

1. Military units operate in places of deployment in accordance with the legislation of the Russian Federation, respect the sovereignty of Ukraine, observe its legislation and do not allow interference in the internal affairs Ukraine. 2. Economic activity of enterprises, organizations and institutions the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation shall not contradict the legislation of Ukraine. 3. Public authorities to respect the status of Ukraine military formations, shall take appropriate and consistent with their command safety measures personal composition, protection of property rights and property military units, and do not interfere in their internal life. 4. Relationships of persons belonging to the military formations and their families with legal and physical Ukraine faces is governed by the relevant locations of the Parties treaties and laws of Ukraine.



Article 7

Construction in areas of deployment of military forces roads, bridges, buildings and other facilities shall be Russian Party in consultation with the relevant authorities Ukraine.




Article 8

1. Contents of the constitution of the military on the territory of Ukraine, their recruitment, financing and all kinds of supplies and stocks of the Russian Federation. 2. Military forces conduct exercises and other combat and operational training within training centers, landfills, positional areas and areas dispersal, shooting ranges and, in restricted areas, in designated areas of airspace in coordination with the competent Ukrainian authorities. Warships and military formations to court prior notice to the competent authorities of Ukraine can of sailing in the territorial waters of Ukraine in order to call (output) ports of Ukraine, which are deployed military formations. 3. Referred to in paragraph 2 of this Article polygons positioning areas and dispersal areas, shooting ranges and airspace designated areas may also shared by military units and Naval Forces of Ukraine by agreement between the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and the Ministry of Defence. 4. Military units may in their locations and movements implement protection measures in accordance with the procedure established in the Armed Forces Federation, in cooperation with the competent authorities of Ukraine. 5. The procedure for using the navigation-system Parties hydrographic safety of navigation in the Black and Azov is determined by a separate agreement.[b/]




Article 9

1. Exclusion zones for aircraft flights military formations in Ukrainian airspace determined by the competent authorities of Ukraine, taking into account needs of these military formations. If necessary, can establish additional aircraft flight corridors of military formations. 2. The Parties shall cooperate in the field of security aircraft flights military formations. Policies and forms of such cooperation shall be determined by individual agreements.


Article 10

1. Ukraine reserves the right to military units contain and use of radio electronic facilities and funds accordance with the existing rules on the day of signing this Agreement. Reconstruction of existing and creation new electronic objects via separate agreements. 2. To avoid mutual interference Use frequency spectrum and radio frequencies electronic facilities are regulated by the formation of military separate agreement.


Article 11

Persons belonging to the military units outside places dislocations can be installed in a way they dress in accordance with the procedures applicable in the Armed Forces The Russian Federation.








edit on 9-6-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 07:13 PM
link   
a reply to: MALBOSIA


AGREEMENT (Cont)


Article 12

1. Service vehicles of the Black Sea Fleet Russian Federation must have a registration number and a clear sign. Use of official vehicles for license Ukraine signs are not allowed. 2. When operating vehicles of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation observed operating in Ukraine traffic rules, including the rules of conduct in place accident, as well as rules on the transport dangerous goods. Control over compliance with these rules by the competent authorities of Ukraine and the command Russian Black Sea Fleet. 3. Moving and lifting heavy equipment Russian Black Sea Fleet, including crawler machine outside the agreed routes provided rail or pas trailers.





Article 13

1. Persons belonging to the military units cross the Russian-Ukrainian border on presentation identity soldier (military tickets) adult members of their families - passports and minor members of their families - on the record in these documents. 2. Parties grant to the persons entering into the military units, and following them to their families, crossing the Russian-Ukrainian border in connection with the change duty station, disposable carry their personal belongings without charging duties and other taxes of equivalent effect and fees.


Article 14

1. Funds allocated from the budget of the Russian Federation for financing military formations of the Black Sea Fleet Russian Federation and individuals within them, are not subject to income tax in Ukraine. Businesses, organizations and Institutions Russian Black Sea Fleet produce tax deductions in accordance with the legislation of Ukraine. 2. Russian Federation's participation in socio-economic development of Sevastopol and other settlements, in which deployed military units of the Black Sea Fleet Russian Federation on the territory of Ukraine is carried out on basis of a separate agreement.


Article 15

1. Transport troops, persons belonging to the military formations, following a single procedure and in part of military formations, weapons, military equipment and other logistical resources, and guard specialists, their attendants, all modes of transport, which are executed in the interests of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation, implemented on a priority basis to meet border, customs and other types of state control when crossing the Russian-Ukrainian border in accordance with the Ukrainian legislation. 2. Transport of dangerous goods and discharge are carried out in accordance with the signed December 23, 1993 in Ashgabat in within the Commonwealth of Independent States Agreement interstate transport of dangerous goods and discharge. 3. Special transport and military products appointments are made ​​in accordance with the contract May 26 1995 in Minsk within the Commonwealth of Independent States Agreement on the transport of goods and special products for military appointment. 4. Transportation using ships Navy, civilian agencies of the Russian courts Federation of Ukrainian ports were in compliance with Merchant Shipping Code of Ukraine, the corresponding port rules, rules of safety of navigation and environmental protection Fisheries and Ukraine. 5. Movement associated with the activities of military units outside their areas of deployment are carried out after coordination with the competent authorities of Ukraine.


Article 16

Questions to visit places of deployment of military forces representatives of third States are resolved by agreement between the competent authorities of the Parties.




Article 17

Persons entering into military formations, paid salaries and wages and Ukrainian currency.




Article 18

1. Russian Party will reimburse the damage that can be caused by acts or omissions of military formations or persons therein in the performance of their official responsibilities of citizens or legal entities of Ukraine, citizens or entities of third countries who are on territory of Ukraine, in the amount established on the basis of presented in accordance with Ukrainian legislation claims. 2. Ukrainian party will reimburse any damage that may be caused by troops on the territory of Ukraine acts or omissions of individuals or legal entities of Ukraine, in the amount established on the basis of presented according with Ukrainian law claims.


Article 19

Jurisdictional issues associated with the presence of military formations on the territory of Ukraine shall be governed by the following follows: 1. In cases of crimes committed by persons forming into military formations or members of their families territory of Ukraine, the law of Ukraine and act courts, prosecution and other competent authorities Ukraine. 2. Paragraph 1 of this Article shall not apply to: a) in case of persons who are members of the military formations, or their family members - citizens of the Russian Federation - crimes against the Russian Federation, as well as against persons belonging to the military units or members their families - the citizens of the Russian Federation; b) in case of persons who are members of the military formations crimes while on duty in places where military formations. In the cases provided for in this paragraph shall apply legislation of the Russian Federation and the courts operating, prosecution and other competent authorities of the Russian Federation. 3. The competent authorities of the Parties may refer to one another with a request for surrender or acceptance of jurisdiction over individual cases provided for in this Article. Such requests will be dealt with immediately and favorably.


Article 20

1. Ukrainian Party reserves the persons entering and composition of military units and their families right Ownership of immovable property owned by them (residential home, summer and garden buildings, garages, etc.). 2. Persons entering into military formations, and members of their families traveling outside Ukraine for permanent residence, Ukrainian Party shall provide an opportunity to export or selling their property.




Article 21

Servicemen of military units provided Command of military units service the residential area at its disposal.




Article 22

The Parties shall ensure to persons belonging to the military formations and their families equal rights with citizens of Ukraine right to education in the schools of general education. primary, secondary and higher education, admission to kindergartens, as well as protection health and other social services. Order payments in connection with the implementation of this Article is determined separate agreement.




Article 23

Russian Black Sea Fleet, located at Ukraine undertakes to take all necessary measures to Under Ukrainian law, the conservation ecosystems and pollution prevention in the field of its disposition, reacts to this end with the relevant authorities Ukraine.


Article 24

To resolve disputes concerning the interpretation and application this Agreement, a Joint Commission. The Mixed Commission shall act in accordance with adopted its rules. If the Joint Commission can not resolve dispute referred to it, it will be settled through diplomatic channels in soon as possible.







edit on 9-6-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 07:14 PM
link   
a reply to: MALBOSIA


Agreement (cont)

Article 25


This Agreement shall be applied provisionally from the date of its signature and shall enter into force on the date of the last notification completion of their internal procedures necessary for its entry into force. * The notifications that the procedures necessary for entry into force of this Agreement will be performed notifications simultaneously with the exchange of the Parties to internal procedures necessary for the entry into force of the Agreement between the Russian Federation and Ukraine parameters of the division of the Black Sea Fleet of the "28" in May 1997 and Agreement between the Government of the Russian Federation and Government of Ukraine on mutual relating to section Black Sea Fleet and the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation on the territory of Ukraine of "28" in May 1997.

This Agreement is for 20 years, measured from the start date of its provisional application. Term of Agreement will be automatically renewed for successive periods of five periods, unless either Party notifies the other in writing Side of termination not later than one year before it expires.


Done at Kiev "28" in May 1997, in duplicate, in the Russian and Ukrainian languages, both texts being equally authentic.


FOR THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION FOR UKRAINE




Ratified by the Federal Assembly (Federal Law July 3, 1999 N 124-FZ - Collected Legislation Russian Federation, 1999, N 27, st.3186)



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 07:23 PM
link   
Russia violated the agreement in multiple areas.
Russia sent in military units with no insignia.
Armed Russian troops spread out across the countryside.

Russia invaded and illegally occupies Crimea.

Now how about you educate yourself on the agreement and stop with the failed argument you and others try to make about the agreement, which are in fact wrong.
edit on 9-6-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 07:35 PM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra

You did not bold the article that deals with what to do when western backed rebels violently take over the Ukrainian government. I'm lazy, can you bold that article as well please.

Russia did the right thing. Nothing nefaruous about it, which is more than I can say for the wests interests and involvement in the affair.



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 07:44 PM
link   
a reply to: MALBOSIA

So you were wrong and you are still going to try and justify Russia's illegal actions. How does the fact Russia recognized the old AND new government in Ukraine fit into your argument?


As for your other question - Ukraine invoked Chapter 7 of the UN Charter - self defense.
edit on 9-6-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 08:05 PM
link   

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: MALBOSIA

So you were wrong and you are still going to try and justify Russia's illegal actions. How does the fact Russia recognized the old AND new government in Ukraine fit into your argument?


As for your other question - Ukraine invoked Chapter 7 of the UN Charter - self defense.


If you think you can make a legal case and take Russia to court then be my guest. Do you have proof that those guys with no insignia were Russian? Seems they beat the law by breaking it. Quick thinking isn't always perfect but hey, Russia has Crimea, probably going to get Ukraine back soon and here you are trying to convince people what? That Russia did something wrong? Those agreements were writren to ensure the intrests of both parties, so if something happens outside of those agreements that put Russia's interests at risk then as far as I and clearly Russia was concerned... null and void at the time due to site conditions. Happens all the time in contract law

edit on 9-6-2015 by MALBOSIA because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 08:28 PM
link   
a reply to: Darkmask

A large portion of us here and Texas just want to be independent.... Accept the truth.



I'm glad Lincoln didn't accept the "truth" lol you silly guys make me giggle



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 08:31 PM
link   
a reply to: MALBOSIA

Yes they were Russian troops.

RT - Putin acknowledges Russian military serviceman were in Crimea


Russian President Vladimir Putin has acknowledged that Russian troops were present in Crimea before the referendum and argued that was necessary to let Crimeans make the choice on the future of the region.

The armed men in military uniform without insignia, dubbed “the little green men” or “the polite people,” who were present in Crimea before and during the referendum there, were Russian troops, Vladimir Putin acknowledged speaking at a Q&A session with on Thursday. The president said he never concealed the fact from his foreign counterparts, and explained to them that it was the only way to ensure the referendum on the region’s status would be carried out peacefully.

“Crimean self-defense forces were of course backed by Russian servicemen,” Putin said. “They acted very appropriately, but as I’ve already said decisively and professionally.”

Putin had to touch upon the Crimea topic multiple times throughout his Q&A session. He emphasized that Russia did not acquire Crimea by force, but created, with the help of its special forces, conditions for Crimeans to decide upon their own future.



and no nothing occurred that required a Russian invasion and illegal occupation of Ukrainian Crimea. Russia would not be taken to court over Crimea. As a matter of fact Russian action violated Chapter VII of the UN Charter and as such Ukraine has a lawful claim of self defense. Its also the same reason the UN and just about every country on this planet don't recognize Russias illegal annexation.

You really need to stop grasping at straws.



edit on 9-6-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 09:49 PM
link   

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: MALBOSIA

Yes they were Russian troops.

RT - Putin acknowledges Russian military serviceman were in Crimea


Russian President Vladimir Putin has acknowledged that Russian troops were present in Crimea before the referendum and argued that was necessary to let Crimeans make the choice on the future of the region.

The armed men in military uniform without insignia, dubbed “the little green men” or “the polite people,” who were present in Crimea before and during the referendum there, were Russian troops, Vladimir Putin acknowledged speaking at a Q&A session with on Thursday. The president said he never concealed the fact from his foreign counterparts, and explained to them that it was the only way to ensure the referendum on the region’s status would be carried out peacefully.

“Crimean self-defense forces were of course backed by Russian servicemen,” Putin said. “They acted very appropriately, but as I’ve already said decisively and professionally.”

Putin had to touch upon the Crimea topic multiple times throughout his Q&A session. He emphasized that Russia did not acquire Crimea by force, but created, with the help of its special forces, conditions for Crimeans to decide upon their own future.



and no nothing occurred that required a Russian invasion and illegal occupation of Ukrainian Crimea. Russia would not be taken to court over Crimea. As a matter of fact Russian action violated Chapter VII of the UN Charter and as such Ukraine has a lawful claim of self defense. Its also the same reason the UN and just about every country on this planet don't recognize Russias illegal annexation.

You really need to stop grasping at straws.




What do you mean "nothing happened"?? The wild f_€kin west just invaded Ukraine.

It still was not an occupation. Ukraine could have sent their troops in but if I remember it Ukrainian commanders were quite warm to the unmarked Russian troops. The Ukrainian government was in such disrepair they couldnt organize their own forces. It was a good thing Russia was there in a t8me of such vulnerability and to ensure the safety of the Crimean people. I remember the footage from that first day and the people of Crimea were not put-off by the soldiers at all in fact everyone looked very content going about their daily lives.

If Russia was not there the rebel violence in Kiev could have caused harm to peaceful Crimeans that wanted nothing to do with the Rebels.



new topics

top topics



 
5
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join