The pro-Russia separatist regions just named Crimea as a part of Ukraine

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

Those agreements were writren to ensure the intrests of both parties, so if something happens outside of those agreements that put Russia's interests at risk then as far as I and clearly Russia was concerned... null and void at the time due to site conditions. Happens all the time in contract law

So basically any time the agreement is no longer in Russia's interest it becomes null and void? You people are hilarious.

What are you going to do about it?

Constantly challenge posters like you with the facts that you ignore because it doesn't support your agenda.

I am not the one on here everyday starting threads that paint Russia and Putin as criminal.

What is YOUR agenda? What do you want to see done about Russia. Complete circle with straightest line and tell we what you need.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

You are on here everyday trying to argue that what's posted is not real or faked or lies yet you show nothing to support your claims. Whats your agenda?

Start with that and work your way forward.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: MALBOSIA

You are on here everyday trying to argue that what's posted is not real or faked or lies yet you show nothing to support your claims. Whats your agenda?

Start with that and work your way forward.

Don't flip it. Your the pro here. You do way more research in this stuff than I do and I have complimented you for that in the past. Lets say you win. I won't argue. Russia did something illegal. Now what? What do you want us to do? I'll follow, you lead.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

You have completely misunderstood my point and purpose. If you have information the contrary then post it. I will read it and dio more research to determine reliability (in my own opinion).

What I am saying is you and others fail to do this. You comment on the information and dismiss it yet offer nothing to support that position. Because of that it creates the perception you aren't at all interested in facts but only the information that somehow disparages the west while ignoring anything Russian related.

You accuse me of having an agenda when I have stated time and again im only concerned in the truth of whats occurring. So my question back at you, in terms of what your agenda is, is just as valid a question as you asking for mine.


As for your last question -
Complete sanctions until such time as Russia withdraws all forces from Ukrainian territory, including Crimea. Until such time as Russia withdraws, full sanctions remain in place.

I think there needs to be changes to the UN, specifically with permanent members and veto authority. The purpose of the UN was to stop what we see now. Since the 5 are often at odds with each other, coupled with differing views on ideology, a change must occur. I don't think 5 nations should have the ability to sideline an issue based solely on politics.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: MALBOSIA

You have completely misunderstood my point and purpose. If you have information the contrary then post it. I will read it and dio more research to determine reliability (in my own opinion).

What I am saying is you and others fail to do this. You comment on the information and dismiss it yet offer nothing to support that position. Because of that it creates the perception you aren't at all interested in facts but only the information that somehow disparages the west while ignoring anything Russian related.

You accuse me of having an agenda when I have stated time and again im only concerned in the truth of whats occurring. So my question back at you, in terms of what your agenda is, is just as valid a question as you asking for mine.


As for your last question -
Complete sanctions until such time as Russia withdraws all forces from Ukrainian territory, including Crimea. Until such time as Russia withdraws, full sanctions remain in place.

I think there needs to be changes to the UN, specifically with permanent members and veto authority. The purpose of the UN was to stop what we see now. Since the 5 are often at odds with each other, coupled with differing views on ideology, a change must occur. I don't think 5 nations should have the ability to sideline an issue based solely on politics.

Who has the right or moral authority to sanction Russia? Russia has done nothing that the west hasn't done 10 times more of.

I don't think I could support sanctions against Russia simce it would only hurt tje Russian people. WE should be sanctioned for living beyond our means and interfering in other nations affairs.

There is an election looming in Russia and something tells me the Russian people are going to bite in favor of Putin just to spite the west. Wait and see.

My wishes are to see things go back to the way they were and for Russia to stand strong as a sober second opinion to the wests crazy globalist wet dreams.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

Who has the right or moral authority to sanction Russia? Russia has done nothing that the west hasn't done 10 times more of.

Russia felt it had the moral authority to invade and illegally occupy Ukrainian territory. Those nations who don't agree with Russia's actions have the moral authority to decide not to do business with nations involved in that action. There is nothing stopping Russia from imposing sanctions / rallying its allies to impose sanctions on the US or other countries it has issues with. which by the way they have done in response to the wests response to Russian aggression in Ukraine.

Don't blame the west because Putin doesn't have friends who will join sanctions he wants.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
I don't think I could support sanctions against Russia simce it would only hurt tje Russian people. WE should be sanctioned for living beyond our means and interfering in other nations affairs.

All Russia has to do is end its support for the rebels, stop providing rebels with military aid, remove their troops from East Ukraine and withdraw its forces from Crimea and the Sanctions go away.


As with everything else Russia is not required to comply with the request as is its right as a sovereign nation. With that said other countries who don't agree with Russian actions aren't required to do business with Russia and as such opted not to.

Secondly Putin is hurting the Russian people, not the sanctions.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
There is an election looming in Russia and something tells me the Russian people are going to bite in favor of Putin just to spite the west. Wait and see.

Yeah and Putin is so worried about the crash of the Russian economy and the blowback of the Russian people when they cant buy food that Putin is toying with moving elections up to this year just to remain in power.

Gee that wont piss the Russia people off.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
My wishes are to see things go back to the way they were and for Russia to stand strong as a sober second opinion to the wests crazy globalist wet dreams.

I can somewhat agree with that. Of course it would require to remove all its forces from Ukraine, including Crimea. Since I don't see that happening I don't see the sanctions going anywhere anytime soon. I also see Putin continuing to isolate Russia from the world through his temper tantrums and his personal issues he has with the west.

To Putin all this is personal for him and he is forgetting the first rule when a person sets out on a quest of revenge -

Make sure you dig 2 graves before you start.

Fact is, as things deteriorate in the Russian economy the pro Russian posters seem to get more frantic here.

Funny in a sad way

You think it is right to attack Putin by making conditions so bad in Russia that his people vote him out? We are basically extorting the Russian people to do as WE say or suffer the consiquences.

And as far as Ukraine, to fault Russia on their reaction to the situation would be to deny the pissibility that those that wanted to cause trouble for Russia were the one behind the coup. If your asking for evidence of that it woukd be strange since I would need to uncover an off the books operation by intelligence agencies that report the thruth about their operations to no one. Not even heads of state on some cases. You ask for proof but you know damn well if the allegations were true there would be no proof of it, that would be the point of the operation. Is there a 'destablize Russia' line item in the government ledgers?.... probably not.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

The sanctions aren't making this worse in Russia - Putins actions are. As has been stated the sanctions go away if Russia completely complies with the minsk agreement - BOTH of them.

The choice is Putins. If Putin doesn't wish to comply then there is no reason for the west to conduct business with Russia when Russia is taking an action they don't agree with.

This is all Putins fault and no one elses.

originally posted by: Legman
Fact is, as things deteriorate in the Russian economy the pro Russian posters seem to get more frantic here.

Funny in a sad way

Do you have an opinion or anything to add about the topic?
...or just an opinion about ATS posters?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: MALBOSIA

The sanctions aren't making this worse in Russia - Putins actions are. As has been stated the sanctions go away if Russia completely complies with the minsk agreement - BOTH of them.

The choice is Putins. If Putin doesn't wish to comply then there is no reason for the west to conduct business with Russia when Russia is taking an action they don't agree with.

This is all Putins fault and no one elses.

What about if the Russian people vote for Putin again?

And I do not believe this is Putin's fault. He brought the Russian economy back from the brink and gave them an image again. Any harm to the Russian economy was the actions of central banks and other external pressures.

I am sure you have many links that can prove me wrong but it seems pretty cut and dry to me.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

The Russian people can elect whomever they wish.

The fact remains that Putin called the shots on Ukraine and invading Crimea. Those actions resulted in sanctions by the west. The sanctions are linked to the Minsk agreement. All Putin has to do is comply with the agreement they signed and sanctions are done.

again, Putins actions resulted in sanctions so this is all of his own making.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

What do you mean "nothing happened"?? The wild f_€kin west just invaded Ukraine.

More like the East (Russia) invaded Ukraine and made it the wild west.

It still was not an occupation. Ukraine could have sent their troops in but if I remember it Ukrainian commanders were quite warm to the unmarked Russian troops.

When armed Spetsnaz come knocking what would you do in that situation?

Would you be a jackass, or would you be warm to them?

If Russia was not there the rebel violence in Kiev could have caused harm to peaceful Crimeans that wanted nothing to do with the Rebels.

Really, because it was planned before he sent troops there for the sole purpose of annexing it, as it had nothing to do with protecting the people...that was just Putin's lie to try and legitimize the reason he was there in the first place.

Russian president Vladimir Putin revealed that he secretly planned the annexation of Crimea months before the country's disputed independence referendum.

Putin says that he ordered work on "returning Crimea to Russia" at an all night meeting, days before masked gunmen appeared in the peninsula in February 2014.

www.ibtimes.co.uk...

Good try though.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

And I do not believe this is Putin's fault. He brought the Russian economy back from the brink and gave them an image again.

He is giving them one hell of an image now.

Lying to his own people and trying to control all media in his country to make him out to be nothing but a saint...you see what happens to those who show the real Putin, either prison, or death and they could happen at the same time.

So now Putin knows the way to get sanctions lifted, but he doesn't care about helping his people or he would have done what was needed to get Russia out from under the sanctions.

Any harm to the Russian economy was the actions of central banks and other external pressures.

No it was the actions of sending armed troops and military equipment into a sovereign country that caused the harm to the Russian economy...not from external pressure.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

Maybe they should elect someone else. It's not like the sanctions against Russia are that widespread. So maybe Russia would be better off electing someone who will actually do something to diversify Russia's economy. If Putin had done that in the first place maybe the Russian economy wouldn't be on the brink of recession.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: MALBOSIA

The Russian people can elect whomever they wish.

The fact remains that Putin called the shots on Ukraine and invading Crimea. Those actions resulted in sanctions by the west. The sanctions are linked to the Minsk agreement. All Putin has to do is comply with the agreement they signed and sanctions are done.

again, Putins actions resulted in sanctions so this is all of his own making.

The sanctions were placed on Russia by nations that do not give a rats pajamas about Ukraine other than extraction of resources and strategic positioning on Russias border.

Russia did not sanction Russia so it was no fault of Russia.

Did anyone sanction the US for their unjust invasion of Iraq? Why would the US and those that joined them in Iraq have the right to sanction Russia?

a reply to: MALBOSIA

The sanctions placed on Russia occurred after Russia invaded and annexed crimea, Ukraine. They were intensified when Russia invaded east Ukraine.

pitin gave the orders for those actions and western countries hold Russia account le for it. They told Russia how the sanctions can be removed and Russia doesn't want to do it.

Putin is why there are sanctions on Russia.


any reason you are ignoring Russian sanctions on western nations?


as for Iraq Russia was free to place sanctions. Why didn't they?

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: MALBOSIA

Maybe they should elect someone else. It's not like the sanctions against Russia are that widespread. So maybe Russia would be better off electing someone who will actually do something to diversify Russia's economy. If Putin had done that in the first place maybe the Russian economy wouldn't be on the brink of recession.

If Russians want aomeone else they will elect them. I don't think that Russians really care what we think is good for them. They don not want to be like the west. And for good reason.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Forensick

Russia invaded Crimea before ANY votes (illegal votes) occurred. That is an invasion.

Please explain - If Putin feels he had a moral imperative to invade Crimea then why did he do it by lying? Why did he maintain there were no Russian troops in Crimea and that the non insignia troops were not Russian?

Why did he then announce they were Russians troops, including the non insignia troops, in Crimea after the illegal occupation and annexation?

he did this because he knew he was invading a sovereign nation and that his justification would not work.

But this thread is about pro-Russian separatists naming Crimea part of Ukraine. I didn't come here to listen to the details of the Crimea invasion, annexation or whatever, there are many posts I can read about.

This interested me but you are ruining it.

Start your own thread or resurrect one of many.

What is the importance of the op?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: MALBOSIA

The sanctions placed on Russia occurred after Russia invaded and annexed crimea, Ukraine. They were intensified when Russia invaded east Ukraine.

pitin gave the orders for those actions and western countries hold Russia account le for it. They told Russia how the sanctions can be removed and Russia doesn't want to do it.

Putin is why there are sanctions on Russia.


any reason you are ignoring Russian sanctions on western nations?


as for Iraq Russia was free to place sanctions. Why didn't they?

Russia did not sanction Russia. The west did so the west is the cause of sanctions.