Police search house, prepare charges against German Holocaust skeptic

originally posted by: Telos

originally posted by: Asktheanimals

originally posted by: Telos

originally posted by: TrueBrit


The fact is that genocide was enacted. The numbers are not crucial to the evidence of that crime having been committed.

Exactly my point!!! The crime was enacted and the numbers are not crucial to the evidence that the crime has been committed. But no one is denying that. So why bother to shut every mouth that wants to ask the veracity of the numbers?

Because without the Holocaust there would be no modern state of Israel. It was the raison d'etre for allowing Jews to emigrate to Palestine and re-establish the Jewish homeland. It was also as much an enticement to get Jews to leave the US and Britain as to draw them from the diaspora worldwide. Jews were the victims of racism quite frequently in the US and the mainly Protestant leadership were not unhappy that many left to join the fledgling state.
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I know,I was just being rhetorical

And you know what's the biggest irony? The worst Nazis were brought in the states under Paperclip to continue their work. Talk about hypocrisy...

To prove my point:

It's been only 70 years since World War II, and the mad scientists from companies like I.G. Farben, BASF, Hoechst, Dow and Bayer, who created the gas chambers and tested dangerous vaccines on innocent Jews, didn't just go away. In fact, they went to work for U.S. corporations and pharmaceutical companies that run the vaccine industry today. At least a dozen of these cold blooded killers were hired fresh out of prison, just 4 to 7 years after the Nuremberg trials found them guilty of mass murder and enslavement. (frank.mtsu.edu...)

In fact, at the close of WWII, the IG Farben building in Frankfort was protected from allied bombings by the highest levels of military command. Why? IG Farben was the FDA/CDC type of "pharmaceutical arm" of Hitler's 4th Reich, and the Rockefellers had a financial interest in maintaining and controlling this pharmaceutical empire, which would soon be catapulted on U.S. soil. Research reveals that Hitler also invested heavily in Merck and other pharmaceutical companies.

www.naturalnews.com...#

More on the matter: Nazi Mass Murderer Became Chairman At Vaccine Drug Company In 1950s

These laws were enacted because people know taking on subject directly and trying to deny it will not work. The tactic used would be one to slowly over years cut bits and pieces of it. Slowly cut that number, slowly change some of the narrative, slowly introduce other theories etc. Much like the moon landing the holocaust is one the most documented events in human history. The facts and numbers are not up for debate, they are as they are. A warning for the future.

To me these camps look like they in fact were cruel labour prisons, inmates were shaved and dressed up in prison clothing, made ready to do forced prison labour in German companies and so on. But things seems to have gotten completely out of hand !

1. IG Farben - 83,000
2. BASF, Bayer and Hoechst - 80,000
3. ThyssenKrupp - 75,000
4. BMW - 50,000
5. Daimler (Mercedes) - 40,000
6. Bosch - 20,000
7. Audi - 20,000
8. VW - 12,000

www.dailymail.co.uk... .html

By 1945 more than 14 million people had been exploited in the network of hundreds of forced labour camps that stretched across the whole of Nazi-occupied Europe.

a reply to: MrSpad

Much like the moon landing the holocaust is one the most documented events in human history.

The moon landing is but the holocaust isn't most of what was written about the holocaust is fabricated. Did the holocaust happen of course it did are the numbers of the dead that has been reported happen absolutely not. The reason why the number keeps dropping is because there is no proof of the millions that were killed. If there were proof then the Red Cross wouldn't be reporting that fewer than 300K died in it.


Every incident in history should be open for investigation and discussion. Just because some people get upset when others want to investigate the holocaust is no reason for making it illegal especially when so many people have been caught lying when it comes to the holocaust. The only reason why people don't want something investigated is because they know they have been feeding everyone a lie just like the way people act when it comes to investigating 9/11.

a reply to: buster2010

Interesting table.

Which makes it curious that the Red Cross (or one of their offshoots) made copies of the 69,000 death certificates the Soviets took out of Auschwitz. Death certificates that only covered 1941-1943 and weren't complete in their coverage. And nobody has found the "death books" from 1944-1945.

That table is from the 70s. 40-50 years ago. I would be interested to know what the Red Cross says now, since as of 1990 they were still interested in finding the missing books.

www.ihr.org...

ETA: thoroughly agree that it should be open to research. Totally. Just don't agree that fluctuation in numbers is necessarily indicative of anything more than new/missing/lost/found evidence.

While I vehemently disagree with the actions of any government, especially a Western one, dousing disent like this, the lady actually wants an apology for the German people? Wow. That's pretty far out there. It's tough to discuss the issue as having any geopolitical theater into why the numbers were what they were, or even the impetus behind the action itself, but going so far as to ask for something certainly, and unquestionably, an atrocity committed by a nation state, whether the numbers are 12-6-3 million, is confounding to say the least.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I agree with everything you've said there.

And while I hate the notion of people being punished for an opinion, I actually believe that this should be an international law. The crimes committed against millions of completely innocent people were sickening, a sadistic, evil, totally abhorrent sequence of events that should not ever be able to be reduced by those wanting to distort history for their own sick mentality.

The severity of the crimes committed against people (just like us) are so incredibly immense that as a collective we should not accept anyone who wishes to reduce the suffering of those people, or try to minimize the cruelty involved. The Nazis (and many Germans) were psychopaths. Millions of people were murdered, tortured, abused, in the most depraved and sickening ways.

Anyone who tries to claim that those people didn't exist, that they "deserved" their death, that the Nazis "weren't that bad" should be punished for it, the severity of the crimes demands that.

a reply to: buster2010

I usually enjoy your posts, but on this occasion you are wrong.

Just because there is no physical evidence of the bodies does not mean there is no evidence of their murder.
The Red Cross (and the other things all deniers use to support their nonsense) is taken out of context and abused for sickening ideas.

For example, we know from witness statements, from the evidence of belongings of those in the camps, that the victims were in the millions, not the thousands.

We know that millions of people were sent from various countries, to these camps, where their BELONGINGS WERE FOUND.

Isn't it interesting that the deniers always resort to taking singular documents out of context (usually those written immediately after, with incorrect information, because those involved could not accept the true scale of the horror they were documenting) and clinging onto the suggestions made by actual fascists about what *supposedly* happened, while ignoring all the physical evidence uncovered at the actual camps by the liberators themselves, and while ignoring the statements from the actual survivors, and while ignoring the revised statements and evidence as the true scale of these crimes became more apparent.

It's another example of the biased belief in one notion supposedly supported by one piece of "evidence", while they ignore the OVERWHELMING evidence telling them the truth.

originally posted by: Telos
We do sometimes question the numbers of the holocaust and also the official story line. The most we get is voices "screaming" at us and accusing us as holocaust deniers and such but that's the extent of it. In Germany, they have it bad. You dare to question holocaust? You're searched, maybe arrested then brought to court.

A report in Mindener Tageblatt says:


“The public prosecution department of the city of Bielefeld has been investigating a case of “incitement to hatred“ (Volksverhetzung) against … Ursula Haverbeck. Now, a new lawsuit was added: prosecutors of Niedersachsen’s State Office of Criminal Investigations have searched the houses of Vlotho resident Haverbeck with the support of authorities of the city of Herford. The houses of three further accused were also searched on that day.”

nonalignedmedia.com...

In a later response to the article, a canadian journalist, Brandon Martinez analyzes the video of Ursula bringing worth some of her key points in the matter.

Early in the presentation, Haverbeck points out that the death total at Auschwitz has been officially lowered. Initially it was held that four million were killed in the wartime German camp, but the figure was substantially cut down in 1990, and now officially stands at somewhere around 1.5 million, depending on whom you ask. Even the latter figure, Haverbeck notes in the video, is false. Why has there been no explanation or apology to the German people for falsely accusing them of (at least officially) 2.5 million homicides that never took place, she asks.

In addition to Auschwitz, other major German camps have undergone significant alterations to their respective body counts. Majdanek and Mauthausen were originally said to be the resting places of a combined 3.5 million Jews, but establishment sources have since conceded that less than 100,000 Jews in total died there. If anything, the winners of World War II have an uncanny knack for exaggeration. Despite these drastic reductions, establishment sources refuse to apologize or properly inform the general public of the inaccurate, and downright mythical, victim counts.

nonalignedmedia.com...

Anyone see the irony of using fascism to keep people from defending fascism?

originally posted by: Rocker2013


Anyone who tries to claim that those people didn't exist, that they "deserved" their death, that the Nazis "weren't that bad" should be punished for it, the severity of the crimes demands that.

Apparently what's happening is that everyone who dares to ask about the death of those people, their number and the documents that proves it, should be punished too. Right?

No one in the right mind can claim that Nazis weren't that bad. No one in the right mind should ever doubt that jewish people were massacred, annihilated and exterminated by nazis during the WWII. But everyone in the right mind has the right to know about the numbers, where did they come from and how. When logic fails to explain things, people have the right to question. Accepting something as a given only because someone in the power says so is as wrong as denying the crimes that cost lives.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Telos

Because the only reason to question the numbers, is to lay the groundwork for a return to the ignorance which birthed the genocide in the first place.

So, if the USA lied and claimed that 100,000 people died on 9/11 and later we find out it was only a few thousand, you don't think that would ruffle a few feathers around the world?

You are basically saying there is no reason to make sure our telling of history is accurate. You are perfectly happy to lay incredible blame on people's shoulders yet you REFUSE to actually evaluate the crime for which they are being blamed.

How about this:

When the British took over Australia and Tasmania they killed off 10 million natives, used their bones for drumsticks and their skulls for beer mugs. You are your countrymen should be building free naval warships for the aboriginal's navy (Oh wait, they don't have one, they didn't get rewarded with stolen land and lordship over the local population)

Don't bother to correct me on the numbers or specifics of that event, because as you say, the numbers and specifics don't matter, only that something bad happened.

So you should be perfectly fine with it going down in history that the Brits killed 10 million natives, yes?

originally posted by: Rocker2013
a reply to: buster2010

I usually enjoy your posts, but on this occasion you are wrong.

Just because there is no physical evidence of the bodies does not mean there is no evidence of their murder.
The Red Cross (and the other things all deniers use to support their nonsense) is taken out of context and abused for sickening ideas.

For example, we know from witness statements, from the evidence of belongings of those in the camps, that the victims were in the millions, not the thousands.

We know that millions of people were sent from various countries, to these camps, where their BELONGINGS WERE FOUND.

Isn't it interesting that the deniers always resort to taking singular documents out of context (usually those written immediately after, with incorrect information, because those involved could not accept the true scale of the horror they were documenting) and clinging onto the suggestions made by actual fascists about what *supposedly* happened, while ignoring all the physical evidence uncovered at the actual camps by the liberators themselves, and while ignoring the statements from the actual survivors, and while ignoring the revised statements and evidence as the true scale of these crimes became more apparent.

It's another example of the biased belief in one notion supposedly supported by one piece of "evidence", while they ignore the OVERWHELMING evidence telling them the truth.

You seem to be completely ignoring the fact that the OFFICIAL number has been changed several times and by large amounts. If everything is so easy to see and cut and dry, why did the numbers get changed? If the numbers changed several times before, why are you so sure they can't change again? You do realize that by changing the numbers they are admitting they were wrong with their previous figures, which means the people QUESTIONING were actually CORRECT?

First off, any human that faithfully blind and blissfully accepts wartime propaganda of any origin, as "gospel", without thorough research, is a sycophantic drone....nescient, divorce of critical calculation, and deserving of the indentured servitude fated to their existence.

As echoed, ad nauseum, "follow the money". Simple exercise. The proposed legislation to curtail "Holocaust deniers" is a formulaic model and template, a designed test-trial via Europe, precursor to looming, mirror legislation in the United States, for "911" truthing. I can guarantee, if aforementioned law passes idly by in the Old country, any vehicle of truth seeking, whether through internet, free speech, or litigation, will be branded and labeled the lastest exaggeration of language, "terrorist", "inciter", "bigot", "conspiritor",....."treasoner". Any trendy expresssion tailored for maximum impact of effect to support adamant condemnation in the public court. Couple that with the push for stricter internet controls, gun laws, false flag media script, and mass surveillance, this draconian abatement of American civil liberties, will make Starlin's administration look like the Boy Scouts.

a reply to: Telos

Im curious, the holocaust is a European problem, in Africa we had our own issue with the people who the Germans where fighting, defeat for the allied meant less Brits and Frenchies for us. So would I be out of my right mind for questioning the claims of nations that enslaved us for centuries? Since I have no dog in this fight and have to read information given to me, would I be out of my right mind to find the revisionist arguments more valid based on facts given. As someone who lifts weights for fun I found it incredible that malnutritioned Jews could clear out a room filed with gassed people in minutes for the next round using a hooked stick thing. Im 6ft 200 muscled and I cant do it, especially 200 people back to back, yet again maybe I could as a firefighter if he could do it with 6 other buddies.

When you do stuff like this, people are gonna be interested in why you cant research it. Its like making a red button that says "dont press". Humans are curious, i did alot of extensive research about the subject and came to terms with a lot of fact, but most of all understanding more than the factualities. There are those who understands the truth and those who knows the truth, but idealism rarely makes a good cause. And most of what we know are actually stories, since facts are basic and simple, humans are no more than monkeys.

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: MrSpad

Much like the moon landing the holocaust is one the most documented events in human history.

The moon landing is but the holocaust isn't most of what was written about the holocaust is fabricated. Did the holocaust happen of course it did are the numbers of the dead that has been reported happen absolutely not. The reason why the number keeps dropping is because there is no proof of the millions that were killed. If there were proof then the Red Cross wouldn't be reporting that fewer than 300K died in it.

Every incident in history should be open for investigation and discussion. Just because some people get upset when others want to investigate the holocaust is no reason for making it illegal especially when so many people have been caught lying when it comes to the holocaust. The only reason why people don't want something investigated is because they know they have been feeding everyone a lie just like the way people act when it comes to investigating 9/11.

Holy crap...I actually have to agree with you. I would liken this to the "Million Man March" on Washington. Turned out to be something more like 10,000 if I remember right, but when anyone said that...they were called racist. But I believe I see where this is all going. Truth leads to calling "racist" or "hater". Racist or hater under the right (wrong) laws result in fines or worse. Kind of sounds like the witch trials. Just stand up, point and someone ends up hung. Is that really where we are going?

a reply to: Telos

ashkeNAZI and Nazi are one in the same-

Essentially its a Sumerian deity and translates to "to destroy the past"
You can send Mossad, rabbi mafia, or extradite me to Germany and I will tell them the same thing even in front of a firing squad or surgeon.

a reply to: James1982

I hold a particularly dim view of our imperial history.

I would not put much past the colonisers to be honest, and regardless of the number you state being utterly outrageous, the fact is that indeed, the British behaved abominably toward many peoples of the Earth in times gone by, and I believe it would be wise for certain elements of the British public to remember that, when they cast aspersions at those from outside the UK.

All humanity should remember moments that even SLIGHTLY resemble genocides, and remember them with the purpose of ensuring that no matter how bad things get, that no matter what the geopolitical situation is in the future, there must never be anything that even reminds one of the events of those times gone by. The moment that anything going on in the world begins to take on the shape of Nazism, or the Empires which came before it and caused ruination in their wake as well, we must all unite, all across the world, to nail its progenitors to the wall.

originally posted by: Rocker2013
a reply to: TrueBrit

I agree with everything you've said there.

And while I hate the notion of people being punished for an opinion, I actually believe that this should be an international law. The crimes committed against millions of completely innocent people were sickening, a sadistic, evil, totally abhorrent sequence of events that should not ever be able to be reduced by those wanting to distort history for their own sick mentality.

The severity of the crimes committed against people (just like us) are so incredibly immense that as a collective we should not accept anyone who wishes to reduce the suffering of those people, or try to minimize the cruelty involved. The Nazis (and many Germans) were psychopaths. Millions of people were murdered, tortured, abused, in the most depraved and sickening ways.

Anyone who tries to claim that those people didn't exist, that they "deserved" their death, that the Nazis "weren't that bad" should be punished for it, the severity of the crimes demands that.

Although the numbers are fairly accurate--after all, Germans are meticulous record keepers. If anything, the official numbers are low due to the large scope and shear destruction involved in a word war.

That said, you really think it should be a CRIME to say certain things or speak a certain way?

As Neitze said, " Be careful when you go hunting monsters, lest you become one."