Homeless people to be fined up to £1,000 for sleeping rough.

a reply to: crazyewok

Yes it does seem to be rather retarded then again i imagine the people who come up with these nefarious schemes practice inbreeding. So retardation would seem to at least offer a possible reason as to there way of thinking which lets face it is simply counterproductive and in no way whatsoever in touch with the society which they claim to represent.

When did we start to penalize the most vulnerable members of our society for having nothing?

The mind boggles really!

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: crazyewok

When did we start to penalize the most vulnerable members of our society for having nothing?

The mind boggles really!

maybe its to help pay for their 10% payrise

funbox

a reply to: Silcone Synapse

Yes, this already happens. Everything you have mentioned is already being done. However, most are volunteers and the government won't pay people to do this full time. To do this initiative with the qualitative approach you are suggesting across all councils in the UK would cost a significant amount, a cost that would be deemed a drain on resources during the next budget to help reduce the deficit.

I agree with you that what you are suggesting is the right thing, but unfortunately near impossible to implement to the scale you suggest. Food and shelter for all.

I also agree that no one should be homeless in this country, but as you know a large proportion of these people are self destructive in nature, lack budgeting skills and often adopt a live for the moment mentality, with immediate gratification a priority. Yes some are victims of circumstances outside their control ( all would say that regardless) but that is just a small proportion.

a reply to: funbox

Cant see how considering just about all of the people who receive such a fine will in no way be able to pay meaning i cant see how any revenue could possibly be generated. Most lightly the result of these fines will be the poor souls being arrested, appearing before a judge and then receiving a sentence of between 7 days to a month in prison. All of which i imagine the average tax payer will in the end have to pay.

But who knows how there perverted little minds work.

Let's remember ppl this is an intiative to ban sleeping in public places. At no point did the council target homeless people directly, it's just they happen to be the main perpetrators, so the article is completely misleading hence all this moral outrage without understanding it's purpose. They are trying to rejuvenate the area of Hackney, voted the worst place to live in the UK. It is to detract.they government know fine well they won't get the money. It's like crossing the train tracks...you can get fined £10000. But you never will

a reply to: andy06shake

Easy, the council will apply for an attachment of benefits order with the DWP and they'll deduct say a fiver a week before the homeless person gets their benefits.
I mentioned it here: www.abovetopsecret.com... but classic bottom of page post, may have missed it.

a reply to: andy06shake

no the homeless wont be able to pay, maybe in sweat eventually.

their just using the stick , again , but I doubt they'll get the response they desire

ha. a 10% payrise after that election result.... how very conservative of them

funbox

a reply to: funbox

Yes they will, remember that being homeless or 'of no fixed abode' does not stop us getting benefits.
The 'penalty' will be deducted by the DWP and paid to the council in installments.
It is cruel, but that is how they will do it, under civil penalty legislation.

a reply to: grainofsand

Some homeless people don't even receive benefits so good luck to TPTB trying to take a fiver a week from the money that they are not paying the poor souls to begin with.

That being said you are probably spot on regarding deduction of benefits to cover there fines.

a reply to: grainofsand It'll probably give the enforcement automatons an excuse to hassle anyone looking a bit scruffy and sitting on a wall or bench in a public place also.

a reply to: andy06shake

Some don't of course, but most homeless people do receive benefits. I've got a pretty strong professional history in that field, that is why I'm certain the council are doing this.
Fines under the Vagrancy Act go to central government, but civil penalties go to the councils. The council know that most homeless people receive some benefit or hardship payment of some kind and they know they can force the DWP to deduct a fiver or so a week from it.

a reply to: SprocketUK

Oh for sure, even some cops I know hate the jobsworth "Civil Enforcement Officers" because when they call them the police are forced to attend their petty little disputes about a dropped cigarette or whatever.

This is pretty bad legislation, but it happens here in the States, too.

Truth be told, I understand the logic behind it, just not the lack of empathy. I fully believe that the right to sleep in a public space (which obviously isn't a right, but probably should be) should trump the need to keep up a façade because this is a 'high-tourist area' that homelessness is not a problem there.

a reply to: grainofsand

im sure that the cost of processing such people will outweigh what they eventually pay over a period of 2 years at 5 pound a month. are you sure its not them paying but the tax paying 'us' ?

what would be a better investment is maybe some blankets or a tenting area where people can sleep in safety.

nah .. instead lets pay ourselves *politicians* an extra ten thousand a year and let the fockers rot

funbox

a reply to: grainofsand

I was wondering if it would automatically be deducted from any state benefits they're receiving...pretty inhumane way of faking that there's no homeless problem while also keeping a buck in the city's pocket.

ETA:

originally posted by: funbox
im sure that the cost of processing such people will outweigh what they eventually pay over a period of 2 years at 5 pound a month. are you sure its not them paying but the tax paying 'us' ?

This is a very good point--if the tax-derived benefits that they receive are what is being tapped to pay for the fines, then it is the taxpayer getting screwed (some might say, "again") by the welfare system, and the homeless people are the ones getting harassed a getting even more obstacles from homeless life getting thrown at them. All the while, the gov't is happy because they're keeping more tax dollars and ensuring a flase sense of everything-is-peachy for the tourists.

Governments suck sometimes.

a reply to: grainofsand

Thats half the problem these days regarding our Police force. More and more they are forced to be social workers or debt management agents rather than being able to do there job in the appropriate manner. Hence the growing resentment towards them, misplaced it may be but at the end of the day if they are going enforce actions such as these people are going to take notice.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

Where I am it is a high tourist area but our council funds a hostel and outreach service to help our homeless. If all the beds are full then the folk can sleep outside the hostel in relative safety, get fresh clothes and blankets, cup of tea, soup, you get the picture.

Incredibly though, many folk are against this service being funded by our local taxes. They say it encourages homeless folk to the area. To an extent there is an element of that, but I am happy that our council does it.
It is also the humane way to solve the issue of multiple people sleeping on the tourist strip, like it or not, it does put tourists off and they are the ones who bring the cash in after all.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: grainofsand

Thats half the problem these days regarding our Police force. More and more they are forced to be social workers or debt management agents rather than being able to do there job in the appropriate manner. Hence the growing resentment towards them, misplaced it may be but at the end of the day if they are going enforce actions such as these people are going to take notice.

That's a big problem in the States, too--our officers are charged with enforcing laws that really shouldn't even be laws, like not being able to sell your own cigarettes to someone else. The problem is that they're not trained to deal with such benign infractions, and seem to often use excessive force in order to get someone to comply. At least that doesn't seem to be as big a problem over there, but I know that looks can be deceiving, and it may be as bad over there, just not to the extreme of flash grenade thrown on babies or people shot when the LEOs have kicked in the door of the wrong house.

I don't envy the job of police officers these days, because I personally know a few who really abhor some of the laws that they have to enforce and some of the tactics with which they're told to enforce them.

a reply to: SlapMonkey

The council won't give a toss about that. Benefits are paid from national taxation so the council will be happy taking a slice of that even off people who are destitute.
Regarding costs to the council, their enforcement officers pay for themselves alread with penalties for illegal parking, dog poo, and litter, so this will just be another checkbox on their hand held device, and an email to the DWP.

Bastards all of them I say.

So much to help them get their life back.
/s