How Does One "Make Themselves" Believe?

Here is musical interlude, to help bring us all back down to earth: Turn it up as loud as you can handle. This music and imagery is truly breathtaking - and it brings me closer to emotion and wonder and touches my soul deeper than any religious presentation ever has.



Think about it.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Here is musical interlude, to help bring us all back down to earth: Turn it up as loud as you can handle. This music and imagery is truly breathtaking - and it brings me closer to emotion and wonder and touches my soul deeper than any religious presentation ever has.

Think about it.

its interesting how something which so clearly illustrates our insignificance can serve to bolster our sense of significance.

a reply to: TzarChasm

its interesting how something which so clearly illustrates our insignificance can serve to bolster our sense of significance.

I don't respond to it like that exactly - it just makes me in awe of how vast and spectacular everything about our universe is.
The idea of a personal "God" doesn't do it for me like this kind of music and art does.
You know what I mean?

It makes me realize how fleeting, how tiny, how integral a part of a huge, much larger organism we are - like the microbes in our own bodies can't fathom the "human package" in which they work during their lifetimes.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: TzarChasm

its interesting how something which so clearly illustrates our insignificance can serve to bolster our sense of significance.

I don't respond to it like that exactly - it just makes me in awe of how vast and spectacular everything about our universe is.
The idea of a personal "God" doesn't do it for me like this kind of music and art does.
You know what I mean?

It makes me realize how fleeting, how tiny, how integral a part of a huge, much larger organism we are - like the microbes in our own bodies can't fathom the "human package" in which they work during their lifetimes.

does it inspire you to realize you are the equivalent of an amoeba living on a proton in a skin cell?

a reply to: TzarChasm

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.
Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
its interesting how something which so clearly illustrates our insignificance can serve to bolster our sense of significance.

Other models assume the opposite: that our significance is to be observers and that observation is creation. In other words: it would not be there if it had not been observed.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

originally posted by: TzarChasm
its interesting how something which so clearly illustrates our insignificance can serve to bolster our sense of significance.

Other models assume the opposite: that our significance is to be observers and that observation is creation. In other words: it would not be there if it had not been observed.

i have encountered some of those models. i find it difficult to believe that if not for the human species as observers, the milky way galaxy would be a figment of imagination.

originally posted by: Teeky
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

You shouldn't feel bad because you don't believe a bunch stories that have been rewritten and tweaked over and over again for the past 1000 years.

I've read the OP's post several times and I don't get the impression that they feel 'bad' about not believing.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: TzarChasm

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.
Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

it is interesting that you find inspiration in ephemeral minutia. like finding a pearl in the toilet. cherish that gift of perspective.

a reply to: Alekto

I've read the OP's post several times and I don't get the impression that they feel 'bad' about not believing.

You are correct!!

So - "should" I feel bad? In your opinion? What will 'happen to me' (in your opinion) if I just don't (that is: Don't believe, and Don't feel bad)???

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Here is musical interlude, to help bring us all back down to earth: Turn it up as loud as you can handle. This music and imagery is truly breathtaking - and it brings me closer to emotion and wonder and touches my soul deeper than any religious presentation ever has.

Think about it.

Beautiful.
If this is not spirituality then what is?

Everybody has his own method of raising consciousness, finding their purpose and bettering themselves like, religion, science, arts, history, sex, intense living etc.

But everything that touches our ''soul'' , can be a spiritual thing.

Spirituality doesn't have to be religious or metaphysical, because it is part of nature, because we, and our emotions, are part of nature, and everything ever existed, or every idea or every imagination ever thought, still is part of our nature.

But for some odd reason we are told to believe that spirituality requires, believing to the supernatural. while nature is far more breathtaking, amazingly exciting , complex and enigmatic, beyond any human supernatural imagination.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs
Thank you for that interlude! And yes, I have thunk on it, as you suggested...

These beautiful demonstrations of the vastness of our cosmos in just this one particular (visible) spectrum of light always remind me of how connected we actually are to everything. Even though we have been conditioned into believing we are separate independent entities, what is obvious from videos like this one is that the universe is a vast condition of relatedness - and the more I whole bodily embrace my actual relatedness or connectedness to this great mystery with feeling awareness, the happier I feel, and the more the sheer force of the whole living expanding Reality infills the being.

No belief necessary - just persistently feel into the condition of unlimited relatedness that we are already in, and let Reality reveal whatever the Truth is, whenever Reality wants to. It is obvious that this is our condition - dependent and related, not independent and separate - so why wouldn't we always live on the basis of this truth rather than what we have been conditioned to believe?

a reply to: iDope

Here's the thing - You can't force yourself to believe. No one can force you to believe. And no one can force you to go beyond belief to faith, either. It has to come from inside yourself. I think several of us have addressed this.

If the OP is posting about missing something or trying to force herself to believe in something, it reflects that there may be an internal recognition that something is missing. And the OP needs to embark on a quest to try to connect with her spiritual nature, to basically find God. That's sort of what much of this thread has been about - how does one do that and what does it mean?

My Christian perspective sincerely hopes the OP turns in that direction and connects in that way, not necessarily through a church, although that is often the easiest way for a new Christian, but if that isn't the way to go, then at least I hope the OP finds a spiritual path and tradition that leads her along the right road. Too many people today are mired in the concerns of the worldly and material above everything creating a world where we worry about what our neighbor has more than about what we need.

a reply to: WarminIndy

What is the criteria, according to your worldview, that qualifies someone as having gnosis?

Anyone who desires something and manifest it very easily through the magic of synchronicity is illuminated. Anyone who is living their ideal life to the fullest through the power of mind has gnosis. Anyone who goes to bed when they choose; wakes up when they choose; and does whatever they choose in between those times due to their application of their own metaphysics has gnosis.

Those who have made their dreams come true; who are not daily commuters because they don't have to be; and are able to carve out their own path in life using the teachings they preach possess gnosis.

Those who are able to pierce the veil (through deep breath and stillness...) and receive insight from the collective unconscious has gnosis.

Those who only have words and nothing to show for their beliefs....do not have gnosis.

Again, gnosis is knowledge of transcendence arrived at by interior intuitive means (knowledge from within).

You have nothing to offer but jabs. I have seen your post on ATS. You preach hate no matter what the topic is. You are a troll...with nothing to show in your life for your beliefs.

I have no patience for people with nothing to show for their beliefs. Your kind of misery is always seeking company...

gnosis.org...

It takes zero effort to believe because it is the nature of ALL of mankind to be religious.The amalgamation of all of a persons experiences form their belief in faith of “their Belief System religion.The “house”(your life) is built with is this belief in faith through your Belief System(BS) religion unfortunately the house is built on a foundation of sand and it will all crumble (you will die).

Most people are not trying to proselytize their religion to demean others but to be benevolent(regardless of how misguided it is).Unfortunately that doesn’t work because the BS religion is inherently false and the person with the BS cannot perceive it is false because the BS causes blindness by spiraling ever deeper into a vicious cycle vortex.

The evidence for this effect is everywhere.It was only a few hundred years ago the concept of a solar system having the sun as the center was universally accepted because man just did not know how the cosmos worked.The greatest leap of knowledge came only about a century ago when Hubble discovered that what was believed to be “the universe” was only the Milky Way galaxy and that many of the stars that were observed were actually galaxies themselves comprised of billions of stars which there are multiple billions of galaxies and so on.

About the same time the mysteries of the atom were just beginning to be known and even though much, much more is known about them than before , now it is still only a minuscule amount.In fact scientist can observe and sometimes harness the two most basic phenomenons of matter ... electricity and gravity yet the fact is scientist still don’t really know what they truly are.

The point is EVERYTHING is observed through the BS religion of man.The greatest genius who ever lived Nicola Tesla(who was responsible in one way or another for every modern convenience there is driven by electricity and many more inventions) did not believe that Einsteins General theory of relativity (E=MC2)was correct.Tesla couldn’t prove it (or at least didn’t that we know) yet he still believed it.

That is the bottom line.Belief Systems rules the world and they are false.Everything a person believes is a perception by observation until the truth is unveiled.When the truth appears belief disappears.These beliefs are grains of sand your life(house) is built upon and one day they will not support your life .They are only a temporary foundation never meant to support a house.

So the only thing you can believe is..what you believe.Another house built on the same type foundation is not going to support your house.The more houses there are built on the same lot of sand the deeper and wider the sinkhole.Building on multiple lots of sand only compounds the problem.

To believe or not to believe ....that is not the question.You already believe.It is what you believe and what you have faith in and then what you do because of your belief in faith.However the fact remains..it is all built on sand.It just depends on if you want to live in the desert or at the beach(pick your metaphor) and if you can even recognize the difference by you belief in faith.

a reply to: Rex282

To believe or not to believe ....that is not the question.You already believe.It is what you believe and what you have faith in and then what you do because of your belief in faith.However the fact remains..it is all built on sand.It just depends on if you want to live in the desert or at the beach(pick your metaphor) and if you can even recognize the difference by you belief in faith.
edit on 20-5-2015 by Rex282 because: (no reason given)

um...... .......
*thinks up response*.....
......
okay??

You seem to be in a defensive/condescending and/or adversial mood. Am I reading your post correctly?

Very, very possible that I am not.
Just thought I'd ask - to clarify.

originally posted by: Involutionist
a reply to: WarminIndy

What is the criteria, according to your worldview, that qualifies someone as having gnosis?

Anyone who desires something and manifest it very easily through the magic of synchronicity is illuminated. Anyone who is living their ideal life to the fullest through the power of mind has gnosis. Anyone who goes to bed when they choose; wakes up when they choose; and does whatever they choose in between those times due to their application of their own metaphysics has gnosis.

Those who have made their dreams come true; who are not daily commuters because they don't have to be; and are able to carve out their own path in life using the teachings they preach possess gnosis.

Those who are able to pierce the veil (through deep breath and stillness...) and receive insight from the collective unconscious has gnosis.

Those who only have words and nothing to show for their beliefs....do not have gnosis.

Again, gnosis is knowledge of transcendence arrived at by interior intuitive means (knowledge from within).

You have nothing to offer but jabs. I have seen your post on ATS. You preach hate no matter what the topic is. You are a troll...with nothing to show in your life for your beliefs.

I have no patience for people with nothing to show for their beliefs. Your kind of misery is always seeking company...

gnosis.org...

You have reached the gnosis through deep breathing and stillness, and that's how you pierced the veil?
I'm just asking because in my experience, I haven't done any of that and still have connected across that veil.

I don't think you know this, other people have heard me talk about it...I'm one of those natural ones....

I don't call anything to myself, I don't sit and think about things, I don't practice anything, I don't read horoscopes, use astrology, look into scry mirrors, nothing, none of that, and yet I am natural. Why? I don't know why.

But I caution, don't go seeking the other side of that veil unless you are ready to find out what's on that side. This side is more safe. Trust me.

And I am sure there are others on here who can tell you the same thing, but generally won't because of the criticism and backlash.

Do I have gnosis? Yes, I do.

a reply to: ketsuko

And the OP needs to embark on a quest to try to connect with her spiritual nature, to basically find God. That's sort of what much of this thread has been about - how does one do that and what does it mean?

My Christian perspective sincerely hopes the OP turns in that direction and connects in that way, not necessarily through a church, although that is often the easiest way for a new Christian, but if that isn't the way to go, then at least I hope the OP finds a spiritual path and tradition that leads her along the right road.

Really?

ketsuko?

So.....what.?!..you're afraid for my very soul?

How do you not know, after all this time and at this point in our interactions, that I have already spent 40 years "connecting with [my] spiritual nature"? I found "God" in my own way......

How do you have the impression that I am/or have been on the wrong road, or that I'm a "new Christian"? !!!

WTF????

So....you don't really pay attention, then - to what people's posts and threads "morph" into, or what "personal, disclosing anecdotal history" is presented. You just don't get it? Do you? You don't.

And, so - what is it that you think is going to "happen to me" after I die - in YOUR OPINION? And don't say "it's not up to [you] to judge." You have clearly already judged. So - what did I miss, then?

What is going to happen to my soul (if I even "have one" anymore according to your opinion?) And whatever it is, is it because I haven't bought into YOUR belief system?

I am now officially offended.


Mouth is literally hanging open.

I hope you have the guts to respond and lay it on me - what a failure I am, and how.
I'm all ears.

originally posted by: Involutionist
You have nothing to offer but jabs. I have seen your post on ATS. You preach hate no matter what the topic is. You are a troll...with nothing to show in your life for your beliefs.

I have no patience for people with nothing to show for their beliefs. Your kind of misery is always seeking company...

Wow. I am having a difficult time with this part of your post because although warminindy and I often don't see eye to eye on various matters, I certainly have never seen him/her preaching hate. When we have exchanged views, s/he has always been very considerate and well-informed and responsive.

What am I missing here?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

overreacting much? ketsuko was basically praying for you right there and you spit in her face. you dont believe in her god or worship him. okay, fair enough. but thats no reason to take her positive intentions and good will and act as they are an insult (and then try to insult her back - i just saw a "two wrongs" thread somewhere) because clearly thats not how she intended it. both you and ketsuko are sensitive and considerate people and i think you two would get along fabulously outside the ring, so lets put the claws away. maybe you should take a breather dear, you seem to be on edge.