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How Does One "Make Themselves" Believe?

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posted on May, 19 2015 @ 08:04 PM
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you might start with a sincere desire to know the truth about Jesus: is he who he said he is?

MANY atheists who have researched have found the truth.

yt: Lee Strobel - The Case for the Resurrection
www.youtube.com...
yt: The Bible Is True! ~ The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict
www.youtube.com...
yt: Walter Veith (13) Battle of the Bibles /Total Onslaught
www.youtube.com...
youtube: The Resurrection Argument That Changed a Generation of Scholars - Gary Habermas at UCSB youtu.be...




posted on May, 19 2015 @ 08:05 PM
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yt: Jesus: Evidence, ancient historical sources
youtu.be...
Part I: Evidence of the existence of Jesus Christ by Simon Greenleaf, the Royal Professor of Law at Harvard University. Dr. Greenleaf was one of the greatest legal minds that ever lived. He wrote the famous legal volume entitled, A Treatise on the Law of Evidence, considered by many the greatest legal volume ever written. Dr. Simon Greenleaf believed the Resurrection of Jesus Christ was a hoax. And he determined, once and for all, to expose the "myth" of the Resurrection. After thoroughly examining the evidence for the resurrection — Dr. Greenleaf came to the exact opposite conclusion! He wrote a book entitled, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice. In which he emphatically stated: 
"it was IMPOSSIBLE that the apostles could have persisted in affirming the truths they had narrated, had not JESUS CHRIST ACTUALLY RISEN FROM THE DEAD, . . ."
(Simon Greenleaf, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice, p.29).


"After six years given to the impartial investigation of Christianity as to its truth or falsity, I have come to the deliberate conclusion that Jesus Christ was the Messiah of the Jews, the Savior of the world and my own personal Redeemer." -- General Lew Wallace, one-time atheist, military general and literary genius, who along with Robert Ingersoll agreed together they would write a book that would forever destroy the myth of Christianity. Mr. Wallace studied for two years in the leading libraries of Europe and America for information to destroy Christianity. While writing the second chapter of his book, he suddenly found himself on his knees, crying out, "My Lord and my God." The evidence was overwhelmingly conclusive. Later, Wallace wrote "Ben Hur" one of the greatest Christian novels.
~ General Lew Wallace



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 08:06 PM
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yt: Lost Tribes of Israel, Found in the Scottish Declaration of Independence!
youtu.be...

yt: A History of Hebrew Part 7: Old Hebrew to Greek and Aramaic
youtu.be...



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 08:26 PM
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originally posted by: Verum1quaere
you might start with a sincere desire to know the truth about Jesus: is he who he said he is?


She isn't trying to find the "truth about Jesus" (actually, it's pretty evident she has, as she is not religious), She is trying to understand how someone is capable of disdaining what would otherwise be rational information in order for an individual to keep one's faith.

You seem like you may be an expert in the field. Care to explain?



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 09:44 PM
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I don't understand why you would want to force yourself to believe something, when it is personal choice with zero reprocussions to do so? There is zero scientific evidence that the things you don't believe true are actually true anyways. Not one person that believes in all the OT stories whom has actual evidence that the stories are lefgitimate and actually happened besides what was written thousands of years ago, one source is not good enough for evidence; and yet many do believe because they have faith that it is true and want to believe it. I have a feeling that many believers of these stories believe them because they feel their religious belief would be discredited if the stories were not true, which could lead to their entire religious belief being questioned as just a story.

I find it morally wrong to force yourself to believe in something such as religion, it is human nature to question what you have learned and the world around you. If you find that you need a religion in your life to help and guide you, and you want one that seems believeable, stories that aren't farfetched and filled with metaphor and allegory, then you really aren't going to find any that fit the bill. But, it is a great point in your life to start learning about other religions to find the one that fits what you are looking for, one you feel that is specific to your own beliefs.



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 10:12 PM
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a reply to: iDope

Some people find happiness in it. No coercion necessary.



posted on May, 19 2015 @ 10:31 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs



Can any of you help me understand how that's supposed to work? If I just really don't believe, what am I supposed to do?

All I really DO believe in is the Buddhist idea - that we can all reach Enlightenment.

Live. Learn a new skill (enlightenment)

That's about it.

Some people know things, that doesn't necessarily mean everyone should.

Example: A man breaks his hip. He gets pins put in to hold his bones together. He knows that the pins are necessary for him. He knows what it's like subjectively.

Do I even need to continue? Maybe for others on the thread.

Then he tells everyone they need pins in their bones. No, that would be crazy.

edit on 19-5-2015 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2015 @ 12:36 AM
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You're doing a lot better than most people in the world. Just keep doing what you're doing, you're winning! Religion is like Santa Claus for adults



posted on May, 20 2015 @ 06:38 AM
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originally posted by: LongishLongo
You're doing a lot better than most people in the world. Just keep doing what you're doing, you're winning! Religion is like Santa Claus for adults


Funny.

As a kid I was never taught anything about Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny except that they went to other kids' houses.

Some of us never had Santa Claus as a kid, it's a false comparison, because not all Christians promote Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

And the Jews and Muslims never taught about Santa Claus either. It is a false comparison.



posted on May, 20 2015 @ 07:08 AM
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In essence, we all have our switches set in some direction. Nobody is capable of seeing reality - we only see fragments of it, picked up with our limited senses and processed with our limited brains which are either not working fully yet or not fully anymore, depending on age and health. Hence, we all need models, and our biggest problem is that we tend to confuse our models of reality with reality itself.

My advice: do as Charles Fort said: discard your model if it does not fit you anymore - only to adopt a new one that one day will not fit anymore. If your current model is that God is a guy (not a woman) that sits on a throne in the clouds - and it makes you happy - by all means, believe in that model. But don't demand others to use your model, let alone lie to them that your model is reality! Be prepared to discard it if need be. If your model is that God does not exist and it is all a universal coincidence, culminating in your presence - by all means, go ahead and believe it. But don't demand others to use your model let alone lie to them that it is reality. But be prepared to discard it if need be.

In short: we all have the wool pulled over our eyes and it is rather useless to discuss the colour of the wool.



posted on May, 20 2015 @ 08:19 AM
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a reply to: ForteanOrg


In short: we all have the wool pulled over our eyes and it is rather useless to discuss the colour of the wool.

I really like that quote - may I borrow it sometime?
Your post is great.

I wish people like you would come onto this forum more often - it turns out I've got (via the OP) some members here who have extraordinarily good ideas about this topic, and ones I don't recall seeing or meeting before. Thank you, and that goes for ALL of the members who have contributed.

*notes to self: Have more Open Houses in the RFT Forum*

edit on 5/20/2015 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2015 @ 08:23 AM
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a reply to: Verum1quaere

Many thanks for your list of sources. I know it takes time and effort to add them to posts.

That said, the very first one on your list is someone I'm already familiar with, have viewed and read, researched, and discarded as a fraud. So unfortunately, if I even hear the name "Lee Strobel", it's no different than hearing "Glenn Beck" or "Dr Phil," "Rush Limbaugh", or "Sean Hannity". Yeah.....

I can't stomach any of them.

(Edit: Ghost is right about my status on the journey. I've already moved on from the Jesus myths. But that doesn't make your list of contributions irrelevant - I'm happy that there are a balance of resources being offered to all readers who are interested! IN FACT, this is the pefect place for them!!)



edit on 5/20/2015 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)

edit on 5/20/2015 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 20 2015 @ 08:28 AM
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originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: LongishLongo
You're doing a lot better than most people in the world. Just keep doing what you're doing, you're winning! Religion is like Santa Claus for adults


Funny.

As a kid I was never taught anything about Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny except that they went to other kids' houses.

Some of us never had Santa Claus as a kid, it's a false comparison, because not all Christians promote Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

And the Jews and Muslims never taught about Santa Claus either. It is a false comparison.


A mythical being from an unplottable location promising benediction in exchange for good behavior. That seems to cover most bases here, but that won't stop you from arguing.



posted on May, 20 2015 @ 08:50 AM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: LongishLongo
You're doing a lot better than most people in the world. Just keep doing what you're doing, you're winning! Religion is like Santa Claus for adults


Funny.

As a kid I was never taught anything about Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny except that they went to other kids' houses.

Some of us never had Santa Claus as a kid, it's a false comparison, because not all Christians promote Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

And the Jews and Muslims never taught about Santa Claus either. It is a false comparison.


A mythical being from an unplottable location promising benediction in exchange for good behavior. That seems to cover most bases here, but that won't stop you from arguing.


This thread, it is a discussion forum. If you don't like to be "argued" with then maybe you should take some blood pressure medication, because if you let your blood pressure stay too high for too long, it leads to health problems.



posted on May, 20 2015 @ 08:55 AM
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originally posted by: ForteanOrg
Nobody is capable of seeing reality - we only see fragments of it, picked up with our limited senses and processed with our limited brains which are either not working fully yet or not fully anymore, depending on age and health. Hence, we all need models, and our biggest problem is that we tend to confuse our models of reality with reality itself.

I agree with you that no one can see Reality via the structures of the body-mind - i.e., no model or psycho-physical construct will ever directly know Reality because all experiences of the body-mind are perceptual in nature, and therefore at their very best, are only a very limited approximation (or model) of Reality itself.

However, because this limit exists for the body-brain-mind, does it necessarily imply that Reality cannot be directly recognized beyond these limits?

This is what must be discovered, and not merely assumed as impossible.

edit on 5/20/2015 by bb23108 because:



posted on May, 20 2015 @ 09:02 AM
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originally posted by: bb23108

originally posted by: ForteanOrg
Nobody is capable of seeing reality - we only see fragments of it, picked up with our limited senses and processed with our limited brains which are either not working fully yet or not fully anymore, depending on age and health. Hence, we all need models, and our biggest problem is that we tend to confuse our models of reality with reality itself.

I agree with you that no one can see Reality via the structures of the body-mind - i.e., no model or psycho-physical construct will ever directly know Reality because all experiences of the body-mind are perceptual in nature, and therefore at their very best, are only a very limited approximation (or model) of Reality itself.

However, because this limit exists for the body-brain-mind, does it necessarily imply that Reality cannot be directly recognized beyond these limits?

This is what must be discovered, and not merely assumed as impossible.


Schizophrenics often see a different reality.

What exactly is reality?



posted on May, 20 2015 @ 09:07 AM
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originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: LongishLongo
You're doing a lot better than most people in the world. Just keep doing what you're doing, you're winning! Religion is like Santa Claus for adults


Funny.

As a kid I was never taught anything about Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny except that they went to other kids' houses.

Some of us never had Santa Claus as a kid, it's a false comparison, because not all Christians promote Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

And the Jews and Muslims never taught about Santa Claus either. It is a false comparison.


A mythical being from an unplottable location promising benediction in exchange for good behavior. That seems to cover most bases here, but that won't stop you from arguing.


This thread, it is a discussion forum. If you don't like to be "argued" with then maybe you should take some blood pressure medication, because if you let your blood pressure stay too high for too long, it leads to health problems.



theres debating because a legitimate contention has been raised regarding a particular point. theres arguing because belaboring a point is a common tactic when losing ground in a debate.

i will rephrase that: you have no legitimate contention regarding my point and so you are belaboring my point to avoid addressing it.

moving on...



posted on May, 20 2015 @ 09:09 AM
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originally posted by: WarminIndy
Schizophrenics often see a different reality.


What exactly is reality?

Animals also see a different version of reality.

So these statements tell us something - that Reality is not contained by any body-mind experience (high or low) because all such experience is perceptual in nature, and thus only at best, a limited construct of Reality itself.

What Reality is must be discovered, though Reality necessarily includes all appearances, because by definition, nothing can exist outside of Reality.

edit on 5/20/2015 by bb23108 because:



posted on May, 20 2015 @ 09:21 AM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

You are, of course, allowed to quote me



posted on May, 20 2015 @ 09:22 AM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: LongishLongo
You're doing a lot better than most people in the world. Just keep doing what you're doing, you're winning! Religion is like Santa Claus for adults


Funny.

As a kid I was never taught anything about Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny except that they went to other kids' houses.

Some of us never had Santa Claus as a kid, it's a false comparison, because not all Christians promote Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.

And the Jews and Muslims never taught about Santa Claus either. It is a false comparison.


A mythical being from an unplottable location promising benediction in exchange for good behavior. That seems to cover most bases here, but that won't stop you from arguing.


This thread, it is a discussion forum. If you don't like to be "argued" with then maybe you should take some blood pressure medication, because if you let your blood pressure stay too high for too long, it leads to health problems.



theres debating because a legitimate contention has been raised regarding a particular point. theres arguing because belaboring a point is a common tactic when losing ground in a debate.

i will rephrase that: you have no legitimate contention regarding my point and so you are belaboring my point to avoid addressing it.

moving on...



OK, then here is the legitimate debate on why it is a false comparison to Santa Claus.

Santa Claus: comes once a year, apparently supposed to give actual gifts of toys, that he does so through via a chimney, while it is cold.

Jesus Christ: Doesn't offer toys, doesn't come down through chimneys, is present all year long.

Santa Claus: uses elves to make said toys, is transported via a sleigh pulled by reindeer.

Jesus Christ: no method of transportation.

Santa Claus: is fat (sorry, not politically correct) and most famous for saying "ho ho ho"

Jesus Christ: several books were written about His many sayings.

Can I go on with the comparisons to make it an actual debate? Like I said, I wasn't taught Santa Claus, but perhaps you might have been, I don't know. But you could be the Santa Claus expert on your side of the debate?



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