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2 very simple question for chemtrail believers...

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posted on May, 12 2015 @ 11:43 AM
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a reply to: waynos

Nice appeal to ignorance there buddy (look it up it's a logical fallacy). Then you asked me to prove a negative... you are on a roll here. You can likely find better things to be mad about, all you nay-sayers. I think it is clear in most threads on this topic that the OP doesn't know what or how chem trails work. To think you have all the answers from a few Youtube clips or such is the height of ignorance. I am certainly not saying I have all the answers either. So go ahead call others foolish... it really just weakens your argument. That isn't to say there aren't more like you on here to star you for it.




posted on May, 12 2015 @ 03:21 PM
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originally posted by: Mumbotron
a reply to: waynos

Nice appeal to ignorance there buddy (look it up it's a logical fallacy). Then you asked me to prove a negative... you are on a roll here.


Is that an admission that the premise for chemtrails is false? After all, if air traffic can produce long lasting spreading contrails, what ARE chemtrails?


You can likely find better things to be mad about, all you nay-sayers.


Whose mad? You guys are hilarious, not annoying :-)


I think it is clear in most threads on this topic that the OP doesn't know what or how chem trails work.


Pretty hard to know how something that doesn't exist works, so I'll join him in that club. Do you know?


To think you have all the answers from a few Youtube clips or such is the height of ignorance.


Yes, it is. That's why I never rely on them, and have never posted any at all. In fact I don't know of any one single skeptic that does rely on you tube videos, most regard them as pathetic and comical but most chemtrail believers swear by them, that's how ignorant chemtrail theory requires one to be. Is presuming that you know where I get my knowledge from the height of arrogance on your part?


I am certainly not saying I have all the answers either. So go ahead call others foolish... it really just weakens your argument. That isn't to say there aren't more like you on here to star you for it.


I merely cautioned against making yourself appear foolish, does that mean you are a fool? Such an assumption would be entirely your own. I cannot make such a judgement as I don't know you. You aren't one of these types that TRY to be offended to avoid straight debate are you? How tiresome that would be.

It appears to me that you don't have any answers at all, just like every other chemtrail believer that comes here thinking there is nothing they need to know about aviation and weather before they decide if chemtrails are real.

The point you have completely missed from the first post of mine that you quoted from is that it doesn't matter how many apparently credible layers you pile on top of the original premise (cloud seeding, weather modification, geo engineering, military experiments etc) if the original premise that started it all ( contrails don't last, anything that does is a chemtrail) was a lie then, it still is.

It's like me saying that my local council is rounding up kids off the street and exterminating them, then, when it's pointed out that there is no evidence, I point out that the council has vans, that could be used to carry kids, they have dog wardens that could catch kids instead and thry have pest control units for rats and such so the poisons exist, it is only a small step to see my claim might be true, even though there's no evidence and my initial claim was bull.

THIS is chemtrail theory by any other name.

If I am wrong, and you think I asked you to prove a negative, the prove a positive. Show that chemtrails exist outside of scaremongering hucksters claims.

Simples.


edit on 12-5-2015 by waynos because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2015 @ 06:45 PM
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originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Mumbotron

No, what he's saying is logistically impossible is for an aircraft to spray a tail of chemicals from horizon to horizon as chemtrail believers claim. Not that cloud seeding can take place.


Zaphod, you can tell them repeatedly that "it is impossible", but as I tell my students, "Quantify!" For example, 'horizon to horizon' for an aircraft at 40,000 feet is a trail 570 miles long! To be visible to a person with 20/20 vision, the trail would have to be 1 arc minute wide. At 40,000 feet that means a trail 115 feet wide. So an area of about 12.5 square miles would have to be permeated. Since the chematics think the spray is aluminum, it would be the same as spreading out 12.4 square miles of aluminum foil. Foil is roughly 5.4 grams per square meter. It's 32374851.3792 square meters, so we have about 175 million grams, or 385,000 pounds. That is slightly more than the total fuel load of a 747-400. And where are they going to put it? The volume of 190 tons of pulverized aluminum is 8191 cubic feet. That's 3 times the total belly volume of a 747-400 freighter.



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 02:49 AM
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originally posted by: F4guy

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Mumbotron

No, what he's saying is logistically impossible is for an aircraft to spray a tail of chemicals from horizon to horizon as chemtrail believers claim. Not that cloud seeding can take place.


Zaphod, you can tell them repeatedly that "it is impossible", but as I tell my students, "Quantify!" For example, 'horizon to horizon' for an aircraft at 40,000 feet is a trail 570 miles long! To be visible to a person with 20/20 vision, the trail would have to be 1 arc minute wide. At 40,000 feet that means a trail 115 feet wide. So an area of about 12.5 square miles would have to be permeated. Since the chematics think the spray is aluminum, it would be the same as spreading out 12.4 square miles of aluminum foil. Foil is roughly 5.4 grams per square meter. It's 32374851.3792 square meters, so we have about 175 million grams, or 385,000 pounds. That is slightly more than the total fuel load of a 747-400. And where are they going to put it? The volume of 190 tons of pulverized aluminum is 8191 cubic feet. That's 3 times the total belly volume of a 747-400 freighter.


And that's not taking into account the depth of the trail. Out of interest, how did you calculate the 570 miles?



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 04:21 AM
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originally posted by: mrthumpy

originally posted by: F4guy

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Mumbotron

No, what he's saying is logistically impossible is for an aircraft to spray a tail of chemicals from horizon to horizon as chemtrail believers claim. Not that cloud seeding can take place.




And that's not taking into account the depth of the trail. Out of interest, how did you calculate the 570 miles?


Simple trigonometry. Or if you're math averse, you can use a simple line-of-sight calculator easily found on the internet. As for the depth, to be conservative I assumed the same depth (thickness) as foil, or 5 mil.



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 07:10 AM
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originally posted by: F4guy

originally posted by: mrthumpy

originally posted by: F4guy

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Mumbotron

No, what he's saying is logistically impossible is for an aircraft to spray a tail of chemicals from horizon to horizon as chemtrail believers claim. Not that cloud seeding can take place.




And that's not taking into account the depth of the trail. Out of interest, how did you calculate the 570 miles?


Simple trigonometry. Or if you're math averse, you can use a simple line-of-sight calculator easily found on the internet. As for the depth, to be conservative I assumed the same depth (thickness) as foil, or 5 mil.


Cheers. As for the depth, I meant the depth of the trail. The one you've described is 2D



posted on May, 15 2015 @ 11:07 AM
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It's like me saying that my local council is rounding up kids off the street and exterminating them, then, when it's pointed out that there is no evidence, I point out that the council has vans, that could be used to carry kids, they have dog wardens that could catch kids instead and thry have pest control units for rats and such so the poisons exist, it is only a small step to see my claim might be true, even though there's no evidence and my initial claim was bull.

THIS is chemtrail theory by any other name.


^^^^^THIS!!!

Very good analogy Waynos. It's amazing but true: chemtrail believers never question the basic premise, and in all the times I've asked them to explain why a contrail can't persist, I've never seen a believer even ATTEMPT an answer. The reason, as far as I can see, is because all the youtube videos and websites that push chemtrails never explain the notion that contrails can't persist, leaving a big empty hole in the chemtrail theory, which otherwise lacks evidence anyway.

Of course that's pretty bad in and by itself, but what really worries me is that chemtrail believers never seem to ask the question themselves either. It's as if they're just not interested in finding out how something like a chemtrail might work, and instead just grapple on to any old bone they're thrown from the chemtrail community, which they then hold on to tightly and uncritically.

The mistake they then make is to come in here and try to convince more critical people who haven't been brainwashed by chemtrail sites or Alex Jones or any of those scaremongers, and then their kite suddenly doesn't fly. Instead people ask for the one thing they can't provide and point out the incredible sillyness of the things they're claiming.

It must be frustrating, and it's probably the reason why so few chemtrail believers show up in here anymore. They're better off residing in areas where critical thinking doesn't stand a chance, such as most of the chemtrail sites and pages.



posted on May, 18 2015 @ 01:37 AM
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a reply to: payt69

It was the simplest analogy I could think of. Like you, I find it amazing that people just believe all the chemcrap thry are spoon fed, without ever seeming to ask the questions why can't contrails persist and spread? How much stuff is actually in a trail and how much would that weigh? How much capacity would be needed to create that trail artificially? How much can a plane actually carry? Maybe not so obviously, if it's not water vapour freezing when a trail spreads, what else can do that?

Instead it's as I put it, they believe the lie because it "might" be true, given the real solid things (sprinkled among the fake stuff) they are told about, without ever knowing they aren't actually connected by anything at all other than someone's supposition. Whenever anyone comes on here saying "what about cloud seeding?, what about what they did in Vietnam? What about military biological tests?" Etc, i just know that the stupidity and brainwashing has taken an iron grip.




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